The dust has settled... Positive Grid Amp?

[H-evolve]

Hi all,

It's been a couple of years since it came out, so I wonder what is the conclusion on Bias Amp? Most comments about it on this forum, that were made when it came out, were not so good. However, many artists endorse their product... and almost every freakin Youtuber is using Positive Grid...

At first glance, I'd say the Cloud based preset sharing is nice. Building your own amp can be fun also I guess. Amp match also maybe? Though it's more an EQ match than an Amp Match, right? Therefore, the 100$ price difference between the Std version and the pro version seems steep.

What is the verdict? How would you rate it, based on the following aspects : Sound quality (does it sound good), Practicality (ease of use, what you can achieve with it, etc.) and Value (how good is it for the money you spent on it).

 

[Christian WUFU]

Still gets a huge "Meh" from me for all categories you mentioned.
I'm sure the main reason so many artists are endorsing it boils down to the extra publicity and free products.

It's not terrible, but I'd rather use almost anything else.

 

[H-evolve]

Still gets a huge "Meh" from me for all categories you mentioned.
I'm sure the main reason so many artists are endorsing it boils down to the extra publicity and free products.

It's not terrible, but I'd rather use almost anything else.

You mean that they are basically just buying endorsements? At least that's definitely what it looks like. Every honest review I have seen was not great (everybody more or less says as you did... it's just "meh"). Yet they are all over Youtube.

For me, regarding plug-ins and simulations, I still go with either LePou, Nick Crow or the latest Emissary from Ignite Amps. The biggest challenge I find is good IRs and I don't really like the ones from Positive Grid.

Also, the way each preamp EQ works is weird... Turning the "Mid" knob, for example, it is not behaving at all like I would expect a normal amp would behave.

So, for me, Sound Quality I'd give 6/10. It sounds "OK", but it clearly isn't a good simulation of real amps (their ThreadPlate or whatever does not sound lik a real Rectifier).

Praticality is probably worth 8/10 (because of their cloud system, the fact that you can do your own amp and also that you have some kind of an amp matching feature).

Value... I'd go with 7/10. It's not extremely expensive if you compare to Amplitube, for example, but the difference between the Pro and Std version is, I think, a bit too much.

 

[Christian WUFU]

You mean that they are basically just buying endorsements? At least that's definitely what it looks like. Every honest review I have seen was not great (everybody more or less says as you did... it's just "meh"). Yet they are all over Youtube.

Basically. It's no different than guitarists jumping ship from one company to another over and over again. They go wherever they think they can get the best deal.

As far as IRs go, it's hard to beat the OwnHammer cabs. They work well with everything I've thrown at them. Fat Lazy Cabs are probably my second choice

 

[The-Zeronaut]

Avoid it like the plague. Very expensive for the sound it delivers.

Im still waiting to hear a review/demo where it sounds good in a mix....

 

[H-evolve]

Basically. It's no different than guitarists jumping ship from one company to another over and over again. They go wherever they think they can get the best deal.

As far as IRs go, it's hard to beat the OwnHammer cabs. They work well with everything I've thrown at them. Fat Lazy Cabs are probably my second choice

Thanks for mentioning OwnHammer IRs. I had not heard of them, but I checked their site and they sound great. Plus, we use an ENGL XXL and a Mesa OS as real cabs, and they sell IRs from both of them! (not sure their ENGL IR is from an XXL or a Pro but that's better than nothing).

I obviously prefer to use IRs that are of the same cabs as we use.

 

[Delitzsch]

(not sure their ENGL IR is from an XXL or a Pro but that's better than nothing).

It's a Pro cabinet.

Also worth the money is the Heavy Hitters Collection that was just released. I bought it and there is so much variety to choose from and the quality is head and shoulders above the competition.

 

[H-evolve]

It's a Pro cabinet.

Also worth the money is the Heavy Hitters Collection that was just released. I bought it and there is so much variety to choose from and the quality is head and shoulders above the competition.

Thanks for saying. So you would say they are better than 3 Sigma Audio/Rosen Digital? A lot seem to say theirs are the best... but I have a couple from Rosen Digital, and I wouldn't say I am totally satisfied. I don't like that I have only 3 options per purchase...

 

[Delitzsch]

So you would say they are better than 3 Sigma Audio/Rosen Digital?

I prefer Ownhammer. So, I would say that they are better. Kevin is meticulous with his IRs and it shows in the final product. For the amount of IRs you get for just a $15 pack, it's unreal. And, the quality has not been sacrificed for quantity either. You can download the free demo on their homepage to get a feel for what his IRs are capable of and how he organizes the folder structure.

Here's the link to the free download: http://www.ownhammer.com/free/v4-demo/

 

[waav studios]

its very meh. you have to do a lot to it in order to get it to sound half way decent and then you put it in a mix, mix it down and compare it to other songs and go "jesus, my guitars sound like ass." very muddy, controls are weird and not what they seem. i don't hate it, i just don't love it. that being said, give them a couple years. when amplitube came out it was a mess and i was all about guitar rig. then amplitube stepped its game up and i never touched guitar rig again. they might figure out the kinks in their software, its still in its infancy stage as far as im concerned.

i also could never get the amp matching to work, but im probably doing something wrong and its probably so simple that it'll piss me off and i'll get mad at myself so i haven't gone back to it so as to avoid that aggravation.

 

[Delitzsch]

amplitube stepped its game up

AmpliTube still sounds like ass.

 

[~BURNY~]

It' s a useless piece of crap. Get TSE and or/and Kazrog stuff.

 

[GrabtharsHammer77]

+1 for Kazrog

Cheaper than most of its competitors, superior sound and support.

 

[waav studios]

AmpliTube still sounds like ass.

to each his own i guess. i can get good tones out of it. what're you doing wrong?

 

[Delitzsch]

what're you doing wrong?

Comparing it to plugins from TSE and Kazrog with well shot IRs.

 

[H-evolve]

It' s a useless piece of crap. Get TSE and or/and Kazrog stuff.

Comparing it to plugins from TSE and Kazrog with well shot IRs.

That is pretty much my situation. Actually, my past experiments pointed me toward the fact that the major driver when it comes to simulated tones is the IR. That is, based on some tests I did. So it is really just my own humble experience. I tested amp sims with their native IRs (for instance, Amplitube with its own IR) versus with third party IRs (of course, of the same cab/mic). I realized the amp sims themselves aren't all bad, but when changing their native IR for a third party IR of the same cab, the tone changed from "Meh" to "It's much better".

SO! All that to say that so far I prefer using free Amp Sims from Ignite or LePou or Nick Crow, than buying something, as I haven't really found the paid sims to be all that better from the free ones. I prefer to put my money on IRs. I could be wrong, since as said, this is based on my personnal tests, which were probably not fully extensive.

I admit that the Kazrog stuff is interesting. The only reason I haven't yet bought them is purely because of the esthetics (as stupid as it may sound)! I don't really like that new look their stuff has. If you compare, say, to the Emissary amp sim from Ignite. They really made an effort when it comes to the interface look.

 

[Delitzsch]

If you compare, say, to the Emissary amp sim from Ignite.

I really enjoy that sim (and I have real amps). Paired with an Ownhammer IR (even the free demo) and it sounds good. Not to mention, it's all free.

 

[Kazrog]

I admit that the Kazrog stuff is interesting. The only reason I haven't yet bought them is purely because of the esthetics (as stupid as it may sound)! I don't really like that new look their stuff has. If you compare, say, to the Emissary amp sim from Ignite. They really made an effort when it comes to the interface look.

Appreciate the feedback. The minimalist look is intentional and necessary, as I have tons of emulations in the pipeline, and to be able to do all of that plus custom analog-like GUIs, I'd have to hire somebody and pass that cost on to the end user.

One key focus, however, has been workflow - I don't think that the workflow of any analog guitar amp is particularly great from an interactivity standpoint. Well designed user interfaces for software are increasingly rejecting skeuomorphism in favor of proper ground-up interaction design.

So, the goal of Thermionik is to take the sound of analog but give it the control of digital, which I think is win/win. I can understand, though, that if you're used to 3D rendered UIs that look like real gear (as earlier versions of Recabinet had), that making that initial leap may be disorienting.

 

[MrBongo]

gotta admit, I don´t look at most GUI anymore. I load the plugins I want, or that I think I need for the sound, and turn the knobs. It doesn´t matter if it´s fancy and flashy or Kazrog™ ( ^^ ).

I need to be able to read the values and descriptions. That´s the most important thing. Nothing makes that easier than a very simple and minimalistic look. Just a few days ago I was presented a plugin, which had such insane graphics overload, I couldn´t ever use it properly.
It was essentially a "hardware model" with rack frontplate and stuff, but lots and lots of pictures between the knobs. I have used several knobs for the wrong functions, because the labels told me they had a different function. Not enough space between the single elements. Hell, even real hardware does it better

 

[H-evolve]

Appreciate the feedback. The minimalist look is intentional and necessary, as I have tons of emulations in the pipeline, and to be able to do all of that plus custom analog-like GUIs, I'd have to hire somebody and pass that cost on to the end user.

One key focus, however, has been workflow - I don't think that the workflow of any analog guitar amp is particularly great from an interactivity standpoint. Well designed user interfaces for software are increasingly rejecting skeuomorphism in favor of proper ground-up interaction design.

So, the goal of Thermionik is to take the sound of analog but give it the control of digital, which I think is win/win. I can understand, though, that if you're used to 3D rendered UIs that look like real gear (as earlier versions of Recabinet had), that making that initial leap may be disorienting.

gotta admit, I don´t look at most GUI anymore. I load the plugins I want, or that I think I need for the sound, and turn the knobs. It doesn´t matter if it´s fancy and flashy or Kazrog™ ( ^^ ).

Thanks for taking the time to tell your point of view on the GUI aspect of your Kazrog product. To be completely honest I had a good idea that your reasons for a minimalistic GUI were what you took the time to explain. And I totally get it!

And I get what MrBondo is saying. It makes total sense.

So to clarify a bit more what I said, I didn't mean that I don't intend to ever buy the new Kazrog stuff just because of its look. The main thing is really that I am quite satisfied with what I use at the moment. And, on top of it, I find their interface isn't "great". Is it really important? Absolutely not! But, in a situation where I don't really need to buy something else, I guess a super fancy interface could be tempting enough to make me have a look! I don't know.... haha!

So, by all means, keep on your good work, as I think it's a widespread statement here that your products sound good, which is obviously the most important of all. If you ever have some time to waste, down the line, on a nicer interface, then cool! If not, then it's not that big of a deal!