The End All To Auto Tune Thread

[KeithTidd]

metal albums/bands i enjoy that don't sound blatantly tuned:

Anything by into eternity
Nevermore - TGE
all opeth albums, although i am aware there's tuning going on it still sounds natural
angra
muse - absolution and black holes
Dragonland
Akercocke
ayreon
Mastodon
the last 2 dillinger escape plan albums
the ghost of a thousand

It's probably safe to say almost any album has some tuning on it, it's just a matter of is it blatantly noticable.

 

[ahjteam]

we're going to make a list of metal, hardcore, and metalcore bands / albums that do not use auto tune.

Everything prior 1998 and most prior 2001 (Autotune was released in 1997, but the earliest sign of it was from Cher's "Believe" from 1998). But this was pretty cool: http://www.idiomag.com/peek/64302/death_cab_for_cutie

 

[CatharsisStudios]

to be honest i love the autotune feel, i think it makes everyone sound better, and crisper, and just it really fucking sounds awesome, like attack attack, fuck yes with that autotune, thats so genius i love it, but yeah dude keep what you are doing barely any of us here are making what you make, and the bands that labels send you. want that sound. when i think of a sturgis production i think, crisp, tight, clean maybe it doesn't work for everyband in the world, but it works for what your clients want, NOT what we want,




so just keep on the good fuckin work man.

 

[~BURNY~]

The end of heartache: good usage of autotune (you can hear the modulations, vibratos, glissandos...etc)
Latest KSE: *autotuny*

Just my opinion tho...

Yes, my name is Bag,
Douche Bag.

 

[nwright]

this


what's wrong with this forum lately?
who cares if there's click bleed or a vocal glitch or a bad edit on a CD?
nothing to get moist over.....this forum used to be about learning about production, not about finding flaws in other people's productions to feel better.

The only difference is, in this case Joey is being criticized for an obvious LACK of any of that "bad" stuff (i.e. the stuff that makes recordings sound like they were done by humans, lol). Vocal glitch, click bleed, etc. aren't the same as having a vocal line so perfect that it sounds artificial...Not in the sense of "cher vocals", but in the sense of "damn, this is SPOT ON in terms of tempo, key, etc., so it HAS to be auto tuned!"

I think there already is somewhat of a backlash or counter culture to the idea of using POD's, samples, etc. in general, makes sense that auto tuning would follow suit.

I'm all for doing whatever works in the studio to produce the best results for each band's standards, because to me utilizing the studio to get great results is an extension of what each of us try to do with our instruments...But I think vocals can be a sticking point because it's fairly obvious that probably 99% of vocalists in heavier music truly can't sing, whereas I think that's not so obvious in instrument players (or they can "fake it" better).

So where POD's and samples and beat detective, etc. are/were initially used as time/money savers, I think to some it seems that ideal has been raped to the point where you can *almost* credit the engineer for EVERYTHING on the CD rather than a band. Before, you'd hear about using auto tune to fix a small little mess up here and there. Now it seems like you can just speak monotone into a mic and voila! you can have a vocal track.

That said, I'd bet most pro level dudes could churn out a mix by the bands they do without a lot of the studio "tricks" and they'd still sound reasonably good in terms of the artists talents...The only instrument I could see maybe not being as good would be sung vocals.

 

[Charlie E.]

IMO using autotune is pretty much the same as using beat detective or samples. What I really don't understand is this general attitude that these tools make good performances sound "truly pro". If I really hear autotune on a production or the drums are just too robotic, to me it sounds like the performance could have been done by anyone and then pretty much anyone could have just edited it in his bedroom studio with his little pro tools rig.

I do like Joeys latest productions and I think his productions as a whole sound very pro and "fit" the music he produces, but to me the PERFORMANCES of the artists don't necessarily sound pro at all. If you know what I mean... However, to an average listener the performances might sound "truly pro", but then again they probably wouldn't notice if the drums weren't edited 100% to grid either or if the vocals weren't 100% in tune either...

I agree 100% with this.
I think so much autotune and sound replacement has been used lately in albums that the average listeners have gotten used to a certain sound, so that when they hear an organic tight sound it doesn't sound tight or "pro" enough to them. I think this kinda sucks

This is why I love the latest Opeth album so much. It sounds like a good "performance" and nothing sounds obviously edited or sample replaced or auto tuned etc.

Disclaimer: I really like Joey's productions. I was speaking more as a whole and I realize that not all styles of music benefit from tight organic sounds. Especially lately...

 

[Metaltastic]

Unfortunately Charlie, not everyone can play like the Opeth guys!

 

[nwright]

Unfortunately Charlie, not everyone can play like the Opeth guys!

to expand the scope of the thread then, I have this question, and it's one I struggle with as a wannabe ME:

If not everyone can play like the Opeth guys, do they then deserve to sound as if they can?

I'm speaking of fixing a performance to that degree...

 

[Charlie E.]

Unfortunately Charlie, not everyone can play like the Opeth guys!

Of course the question is, if a band like Opeth recorded a cover of a song like Attack Attack's "Stick Stickly" and used the same organic sound that they're known for, would the teenage crowd accept it? Or are we at a point where sound replacing and auto tuned vocals are a necessity because so many kids are used to that sound?

Just playing the devil's advocate here don't kill me!

 

[derfbonker]

I'm pretty sure most of the Nile records don't have any auto-tune. Then again I may be wrong.

 

[devouredremains]

do they then deserve to sound as if they can?

It's not an engineers job to judge if a band "deserves" to sound a certain way.

 

[Machinated]

im sure even the latest opeth albums are edited to be exactly what they ended up as.....

 

[nwright]

It's not an engineers job to judge if a band "deserves" to sound a certain way.

:Smug:

 

[Metaltastic]

I'm pretty sure most of the Nile records don't have any auto-tune. Then again I may be wrong.

HAHAHAHAHAAHHAhaahahahah, oh man, the thought of that just cracked me up

im sure even the latest opeth albums are edited to be exactly what they ended up as.....

OH yeah, I don't doubt that, but I still don't think there was nearly as much!

 

[jrt12]

+1 to the stick to your guns and your own style joey. its obviously working, cuz otherwise they wouldnt be hating on it. people dont hate on failures... there's enough producers out there that if a band wants a "raw" and "organic" record, they can find someone else (though i'm not saying you cant do it). if all the producers had the same style, methods and taste... music would never grow.

 

[Charlie E.]

+1 to the stick to your guns and your own style joey. its obviously working, cuz otherwise they wouldnt be hating on it. people dont hate on failures... there's enough producers out there that if a band wants a "raw" and "organic" record, they can find someone else (though i'm not saying you cant do it). if all the producers had the same style, methods and taste... music would never grow.

I couldn't agree more. Please disregard my earlier posts. Lets let this thread die. Joey rocks

 

[devouredremains]

:Smug:

Seriously! That's like you walking into a music store to purchase a new preamp and the dude at the counter says "ummm...I don't think you deserve this. See ya later!" or "ummmm...I don't think you deserve this API. Take this Behringer instead."

That's not very good for business IMO. Word of mouth is key my friend...keep that in mind.

 

[Machinated]

OH yeah, I don't doubt that, but I still don't think there was nearly as much!

no way of telling......but sounds pretty damn perfect to my ears - not a lot of tiny errors to pick out is there?


i think ultimately, like them or hate them these production techniques have to be done as its what the big names are doing.

 

[nwright]

Seriously! That's like you walking into a music store to purchase a new preamp and the dude at the counter says "ummm...I don't think you deserve this. See ya later!" or "ummmm...I don't think you deserve this API. Take this Behringer instead."

That's not very good for business IMO. Word of mouth is key my friend...keep that in mind.

Meh, I don't make that choice with bands I work with...Word of mouth has gotten me the business I have, but I do try to only pick bands that will require less work than others...Mainly because I charge so little to record that I don't wanna spend 10 hours on a single vocal track for pennies.

None of this applies to me, it was more a rhetorical question I guess. I tell bands up front I don't do much auto tune, quantizing, beat detective or anything like that. Maybe once I actually get paid enough to do it, I will.

But, I'm not of the mindset that everything has to align to a grid and be perfectly in tune to be "pro", either.

It's still a bit of a rip in the pants when you hear a band's CD and it sounds so killer only to hear them live and it's garbage...And I think its just getting worse, and it's clearly not just metal.

 

[Keessi]

Word of advice: If you don't like what you're hearing, don't fucking listen to it.

I don't really like singing vocals in metal anyway so I don't really ever listen to those examples any of you guys are pointing out.

If you like real auto tuneless(at least audible cher-ish stuff) singing, listen to blondie or the Eels. Metal is a good example of where auto tune has it's place with editing drums, sample replacing drums to enhance sound, quad tracking gits to get beef/what ever.

I'm not trying to be "true" or "brvtal" about not liking sung vocals in metal, I just don't get anything out of it really. With or without autotune.

Kinda off topic but what the hell.

on topic on the other hand:
I don't think joey could've done his job better on for example the Attack Attack song everyone's been all anal about. 8,000 thumbs up from me dude! Keep on auto tuning and doing your thing.

ps. I really really want to record some mellow pop music and I'm sure as fuck using auto tune if it makes the final product sound better.