The Friday Five
- Thread starter Jax
- Start date
noble savage
Member
Don't forget denouncing condom use in Africa because it is immoral!
My whole family was Catholic but after many events, even before the child molesting, they just stopped due to how corrupt it is.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
Yes and no. Proofs like I think you're meaning it, like we've discussed in the last few posts... I agree. Unnecessary. And there is no universal proof that everything is 100% true or not.
But on some level, you need personal proofs or strong evidence for what you believe, or your beliefs are irrational. This applies to all belief, not just religion.
J-Dubya 777
It NEVER ends
Don't forget denouncing condom use in Africa because it is immoral!
YEah, I didn't even need to get to that.
EyeballKid
Shyamalan'd
J-Dubs, you too huh?
Also a former-Catholic from IL, I spent from Kindergarten to 8th grade.Someone accused one of our priest's of an alleged encounter when all the hoopla was going down, but it turned out to be a lie: just someone trying to get money. At a Catholic church, no less. I never...
I didn't even get THAT. My school didn't try to preach the truth of the bible, OR the message. They tried to preach the truth of the church, theirs specifically.
darkblade
heartbeat of the earth
but just as in aesops fables, the tortoise and the hare mean nothing as long as you understand the moral of the story. it doesn't matter weather not jesus existed, it matters what he taught and why we follow it. i understand why it matters to people that he existed, but i think that they need to grow out of the need for religion and have the streangth to do these things because they KNOW they are right, rather than doing it just because jesus told them to.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
Well yes, I agree. That's morality, and I know a lot of respectable, upstanding atheists who also have it. With religion though, if you look at something that claims "You have to believe/trust in me" then 1. You should pursue as much personal evidence as necessary to conclude to do that or not, and 2. That includes investigating the reality of the claimant- if they never existed, case closed.
noble savage
Member
I know for an absolute fact that kindness, generosity, love and all forms of altruistic behavior are inherent in humans (Most at least). Knowing that bad is bad and good is good is hardwired into our minds, not learned by reading the bible or becoming a Christian. I have actually been told (On two separate occasions no less!) that I was immoral for being an Atheist and I had no concept of right or wrong.
progmetaldan
Member
Taliwakker
.....
progmetaldan
Member
darkblade
heartbeat of the earth
ok then i guess the problem is religion, and the need for mankind to follow someone and trust in someone just to arrive at morality.
you guys missunderstand my sentiment. i am against the organized religion idea. i am not a religious man, nor would i eve claim that i found morallity through faith in a religion. i am a moral man, and i think that people should be able o find morallity without aid of a religion. sometimes, they do find good things from religion: like a shoulder to cry on, or mental stability, or love, or morality. and when they are found it's clear that religion has an upside.
sometimes it is used as a crutch to lean on, a scapegoat, or even a vessel used to gain power: religion's downside.
just so you guys know. if you say religion is bad, i'm going to show you all the good it has to offer. if you say it is bad, i'll show you it's deviciveness. i am always play devil's advocate with religion.
understand i'm not dissagreeing with you. just bringng up other things that could be considdered. i agree with all of you for the most part. especially Ken. yo have some breins in that head of yours.
squidfetish
Member
I don't believe that there is any proof of any literal truth in the bible or any of the other religious texts. If there was, then there wouldn't be any need for faith. Faith is belief without proof. Not that it should be a problem. Personally I'm an atheist because there is no good reason why I should be otherwise. However, it's not my intention to change any one else's point of view. I f someone wants to have a discussion about these things (as happens every now and again) then I will argue my point same as anyone else.
One of the big problems with religion is literal interpretation of scripture, as there is such a diversity of points in there that it is possible to cherry pick any number of parts of the bible to back up one's own prejudices. For example, there's the 'jews are the killers of christ' routine; you can look to the old testament for any number of justifications for oppression and murder of peoples who don't share your beliefs. It's interesting to note that 'love thy neighbour' point of view espoused by christ would have been applied to other Jews, not outsiders, in-group morality and out-group hostility being standard at that time. It's important to view any alleged incidents and opinions through the eyes of the times, yet be able to apply a more incusive humanistic spin to it before using that message or whatever in present life.
Like has been said, many religious people are largely good people who want the best for themselves and others. Unfortunately there are enough people who will do whatever they are told if the likes of Falwell, Haggard and Robertson say it's God's will. It was a great day when Haggard got outed wasn't it? lol
It's very refreshing to have a sane argument about topics like this - nice one, guys and gals!
One of the big problems with religion is literal interpretation of scripture, as there is such a diversity of points in there that it is possible to cherry pick any number of parts of the bible to back up one's own prejudices. For example, there's the 'jews are the killers of christ' routine; you can look to the old testament for any number of justifications for oppression and murder of peoples who don't share your beliefs. It's interesting to note that 'love thy neighbour' point of view espoused by christ would have been applied to other Jews, not outsiders, in-group morality and out-group hostility being standard at that time. It's important to view any alleged incidents and opinions through the eyes of the times, yet be able to apply a more incusive humanistic spin to it before using that message or whatever in present life.
Like has been said, many religious people are largely good people who want the best for themselves and others. Unfortunately there are enough people who will do whatever they are told if the likes of Falwell, Haggard and Robertson say it's God's will. It was a great day when Haggard got outed wasn't it? lol
It's very refreshing to have a sane argument about topics like this - nice one, guys and gals!
squidfetish
Member
Kenneth R.
Cináed
I don't believe that there is any proof of any literal truth in the bible or any of the other religious texts. If there was, then there wouldn't be any need for faith. Faith is belief without proof. Not that it should be a problem. Personally I'm an atheist because there is no good reason why I should be otherwise. However, it's not my intention to change any one else's point of view. I f someone wants to have a discussion about these things (as happens every now and again) then I will argue my point same as anyone else.
One of the big problems with religion is literal interpretation of scripture, as there is such a diversity of points in there that it is possible to cherry pick any number of parts of the bible to back up one's own prejudices. For example, there's the 'jews are the killers of christ' routine; you can look to the old testament for any number of justifications for oppression and murder of peoples who don't share your beliefs. It's interesting to note that 'love thy neighbour' point of view espoused by christ would have been applied to other Jews, not outsiders, in-group morality and out-group hostility being standard at that time. It's important to view any alleged incidents and opinions through the eyes of the times, yet be able to apply a more incusive humanistic spin to it before using that message or whatever in present life.
Like has been said, many religious people are largely good people who want the best for themselves and others. Unfortunately there are enough people who will do whatever they are told if the likes of Falwell, Haggard and Robertson say it's God's will. It was a great day when Haggard got outed wasn't it? lol
It's very refreshing to have a sane argument about topics like this - nice one, guys and gals!
1. Faith isn't belief without proof. Not exactly. It's belief based on evidence where proof cannot be obtained. Blind belief in anything is irrational.
2. There are literal proofs of some biblical passages. In a historical context. There are no proofs of miracles, but there are concrete proofs for the existence of people, places, and events.
3. Interpretation is important. I think that you can't take it all literally (especially when some passages flat out announce that they are allegory). Some other passages, similarly, must be taken literally.
darkblade
heartbeat of the earth
squidfetish
Member
Firstly, I would have said that proof and evidence are the same thing (maybe I'm misunderstanding you?). A christian belives that Jesus is the son of an all-powerful deity, despite the fact that there is no evidence (or proof) that the said deity exists, or that Jesus was indeed his son. Similarly most Christians believe that Jesus will return to Earth at some future date, despite the fact that dead people don't come back - they're relying on the unproven nature of Jesus being the son of God. I'm not having a go here, I respect the optimism, it just doesn't seem to involve anything more than conjecture. There is a good case for certain people existing at certain times and in certain places, the same as there is for other periods of history, but not much of the fundamental beliefs of Christianity seem to stand up to critical analysis - in fact the gospels themselves vary widely in their accounts of events. This is one of the reasons why I think literalism is bad. Go for the whole message thing - that's good, but trying to make a case for literal truth doesn't really work, and interpretation is definitely important, like you say. Unfortunately, there are many different interpretations which can be used for both good and bad ends.
1. What is your favorite childhood memory?
2. If you could be reincarnated as anything besides human, who would you want to be?
3. If you had to start your life all over, what are three things you would change?
4. If you had to forget everything in your life, except one thing, what would it be?
5. Do you have a lucky charm?
2. If you could be reincarnated as anything besides human, who would you want to be?
3. If you had to start your life all over, what are three things you would change?
4. If you had to forget everything in your life, except one thing, what would it be?
5. Do you have a lucky charm?
ToastedOveries
Stranger in the night
1. What is your favorite childhood memory? - i cant remember much, probably skateboarding with friends, and long bike rides
2. If you could be reincarnated as anything besides human, who would you want to be? - a House cat, so i can chill out for a few years
3. If you had to start your life all over, what are three things you would change? - i would be more outgoing, make more effort to be more sociable, i would also take back some things i have said to some people i care about over the years. (basically bad relationships), also i wouldnt be so niave in my hopes, and push harder to achieve my goals instead of daydreaming
4. If you had to forget everything in your life, except one thing, what would it be? - i would keep my guitar playing
5. Do you have a lucky charm? - just a necklace that i never take off
2. If you could be reincarnated as anything besides human, who would you want to be? - a House cat, so i can chill out for a few years
3. If you had to start your life all over, what are three things you would change? - i would be more outgoing, make more effort to be more sociable, i would also take back some things i have said to some people i care about over the years. (basically bad relationships), also i wouldnt be so niave in my hopes, and push harder to achieve my goals instead of daydreaming
4. If you had to forget everything in your life, except one thing, what would it be? - i would keep my guitar playing
5. Do you have a lucky charm? - just a necklace that i never take off
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