The Genius' Dilemma

[CharIie]

I take it that you guys are most likely familiar with the films "Black Swan" and "Whiplash", and therefore with the whole concept of "Selling your soul/yourself" to achieve artistic greatness.

And it got me thinking. Bodom greatest albums were, in my humble opinion, the first four (from Something Wild to Hate Crew Deathroll). And it just so appears that it was at that time that Laiho was at his worse, addiction wise.
He then sobered up, and we got albums like Blooddrunk and I Worship Chaos.

But then came Hexed, and Bodom After Midnight's EP. Both absolutely great. Not as great as the first 4 albums by any stretch, but clearly, Laiho was back on track. Before he passed away from alcohol induced liver failure that is.

So I wondered, could we owe the last album and EP to Alexi's drinking relapse? And if so, should we favour the artist or the art, if the cost for the latter is the health/sanity of the former?

I personally believe that art is the most defining aspect of humanity. And that there should be no limit whatsoever to its pursuit. And therefore, I come to you with what will probably be my most controversial statement yet, but I think that if the lastest Laiho compositions are due to him falling back into his old drinking habits, then it was for the better. At least he went off with a proper BANG! and left behind a lasting legacy of great music, that has inspired and will continue to inspire generations of musicians.

 

[Ragehead]

I rather disagree...it sounds like you just want good art for any price, even if it means an early death to a human being. That's not controversial, that's rather kinda egoistic thinking imo. There are more than enough artists who don't need alcohol/drugs to make great music and live long and still make great music. I also think it's more of a cliche that stuff like that really improves your creativity...with COB especially it's rather the case of bands making their most highly regarded music when they are young and in their 20s. Many bands made their classic albums at that age and didn't acchieve similar successes later.

I think the tragedy with Alexi hits especially today very much...we have now listened to his very last song and it shows he was far from done musically and we could have had a lot more good albums from him in years to come, if it WASN'T for the alcohol. It was his natural talent that made him that great of a musician, not alcohol. No artist makes exclusively masterpieces.

Also, one shouldn't take movies like the ones mentioned too seriously...they are movies after all, and don't have too much in common with reality. "Whiplash" especially kinda disappointed me as a musician...there were some scenes that were just bullshit and shape the view of non-musicians that things are supposed to be that way when they actually aren't.

 

[CharIie]

Well, I can see you point, but as you put it, I do 'want good art for any price'. Not just for me though, for the betterment of humanity. For as I said, art is one of the main thing that makes us more than just animals.

And the movies were just me referencing to come culture. But there are plenty of artists who would have never achieved greatness if not for horrible pain/trauma/experiences. I mean, look at how tormented Shostakovich was, and that's what you feel when listening to his pieces. Or Van Gogh / Munch and their paintings, Hamsun and his books! Heck, even Rachmaninov, who is in my opinion the single greatest composer of all time, dealt with severe bouts of depression.

Could you imagine a world without these artists ? Without their art ? And worse even, without all of the other artists that were inspired by them in the first place ?

And also, I never meant that alcohol in itself was the reason behind Laiho's masterpieces. But he never hid the fact that he was seriously depress. He drank so much probably as a coping mechanism, but what possibly enabled his creative mind was the strength of the emotions he felt. It was dark, painful, angry, powerful, and a wonderful source for music ideas. However, alcohol was the price he had to pay to not completely lose his mind.

Last but not least, as a musician too, I thoroughly loved Wisplash.

 

[azistenostora]

I don't have anything to add, just wanted to say how rare it is to see two individuals having a civilized conversation on an online forum, even if they disagree.

 

[Johnny_victor]

I can not speak about Alexi, but most of the music I ever wrote was by listening to other bands that gave me an inspiration, I would noodle on the guitar while listening to songs and come up with something...completely sober. There are few riffs here and there that I came up with after a night out partying, but those are like 10 percent of everything I wrote. I think artists get addicted because drugs and alcohol are so easily accessible on tours, your managers and promoters and club staff can very easily get it for you. It has nothing to do with the art itself. And then also you should note that many of the artists came from countries and cultures that don't see these addictions as something totally bad, yes I am talking about Finland, Russia, California, etc.

 

[dthmtl3]

I wouldn't say we can attribute his best work to alcohol. But then, I don't understand addiction. I don't understand how people can function let alone at a high level when they are drunk or hungover. Personally, past a certain point, I'm no good at much of anything when I'm drinking, let alone when I'm hungover. When I'm feeling down, I don't even want to pick up the guitar. So depression isn't exactly an incentive to me either.

In the case of Alexi, I imagine it had more to do, in the early days, with being young, full of energy, full of ideas, and the desire to make a point. By all accounts when he was young he was very driven and wanted to be the best guitar player. Not sure exactly of the timeline, but at some point near his peak came the accidents and broken bones which I believe had a lasting impact on his playing. And that translated to his composing. No use in composing stuff he wouldn't be able to play live. Then he somehow got his inspiration back, perhaps something changed in his personal life (meeting Kelli? idk), he learned to live with whatever effects the broken bones left, he knew very well that Blooddrunk and Relentless weren't his best albums and he put more effort again into composing. (I do think they are amazing albums, but something is a a bit off). Perhaps it was also around the time he got some bad news about his health and that again drove him to come up with great stuff.

It's more of a bunch of factors, not a single one. Alcoholism itself tends to be a consequence of something else plus some genetics maybe. So I think one has to look at the whole picture to be able to understand this. And while we know much of what went on in Alexi's life we don't now it all.

 

[Ragehead]

Well, I can see you point, but as you put it, I do 'want good art for any price'. Not just for me though, for the betterment of humanity. For as I said, art is one of the main thing that makes us more than just animals.

And the movies were just me referencing to come culture. But there are plenty of artists who would have never achieved greatness if not for horrible pain/trauma/experiences. I mean, look at how tormented Shostakovich was, and that's what you feel when listening to his pieces. Or Van Gogh / Munch and their paintings, Hamsun and his books! Heck, even Rachmaninov, who is in my opinion the single greatest composer of all time, dealt with severe bouts of depression.

Could you imagine a world without these artists ? Without their art ? And worse even, without all of the other artists that were inspired by them in the first place ?

And also, I never meant that alcohol in itself was the reason behind Laiho's masterpieces. But he never hid the fact that he was seriously depress. He drank so much probably as a coping mechanism, but what possibly enabled his creative mind was the strength of the emotions he felt. It was dark, painful, angry, powerful, and a wonderful source for music ideas. However, alcohol was the price he had to pay to not completely lose his mind.

I get your points. Still I don't think the reasoning is quite right...many artists have suffered in their lifes, also many "not-artists" have suffered in their life, life is just not all sunshine in general for most. I agree that pain leads to emotions that change your music and as someone who loves Rachmaninov's music as well, I get what you mean. Still, I see not the sense in life to be miserable just to create that kind of music. And I'm sure most artists in that position would rather feel better than go through all this. Furthermore, it's just not my opinion that good art can only exist through some kind of pain. There are many examples of happy artists who still write great music.

I don't know as much about Alexi as some of you here, but I get the impression he was fighting a lot of demons from very early on. I don't know what the source of that was, but it made him search a solution in alcohol...which is maybe the easiest solution (in the moment), but also the one causing even more problems. In the worst case it leads to what we have now - a way too early death. I think this shows also that this "glorification" of the "Rock 'n Roll lifestyle" should really end...people like Ozzy or Lemmy are very rare, many good other people have died because doing all that shit like alcohol and drugs. There are many who know their limits, there is nothing wrong with partying here and there, if you know when to stop - just look at the other COB guys, they also drank and partied a lot, but they're fine today.

Furthermore, by far not all of Alexi's music is dark or painful...the lyrics, maybe, but especially on their early albums they have so many melodic and even happy songs on there...I always thought the music of f.e. "Hate Me" could even be a children's song, if arranged with other instruments. Just because one maybe prefers dark and melancholic music, doesn't mean all "great art" is only that. That's a very subjective topic, as mostly with music.

I rather think that very talented people like great artists are in general more different, have a unique character or a different view on things than most others, which then leads often to them being lonely or getting into trouble, because they're not understood by others. It's no surprise most great artists usually have a quite interesting if not eccentric personality. And that makes it often very hard for them to fit in with others. With Alexi, it must have been something quite deep, since he actually had quite a lot good people around him since his youth who he trusted and shared his passion. It's really sad they all couldn't help him in the end.

 

[Aries Poison Girl]

I take it that you guys are most likely familiar with the films "Black Swan" and "Whiplash", and therefore with the whole concept of "Selling your soul/yourself" to achieve artistic greatness.

And it got me thinking. Bodom greatest albums were, in my humble opinion, the first four (from Something Wild to Hate Crew Deathroll). And it just so appears that it was at that time that Laiho was at his worse, addiction wise.
He then sobered up, and we got albums like Blooddrunk and I Worship Chaos.

But then came Hexed, and Bodom After Midnight's EP. Both absolutely great. Not as great as the first 4 albums by any stretch, but clearly, Laiho was back on track. Before he passed away from alcohol induced liver failure that is.

So I wondered, could we owe the last album and EP to Alexi's drinking relapse? And if so, should we favour the artist or the art, if the cost for the latter is the health/sanity of the former?

I personally believe that art is the most defining aspect of humanity. And that there should be no limit whatsoever to its pursuit. And therefore, I come to you with what will probably be my most controversial statement yet, but I think that if the lastest Laiho compositions are due to him falling back into his old drinking habits, then it was for the better. At least he went off with a proper BANG! and left behind a lasting legacy of great music, that has inspired and will continue to inspire generations of musicians.

It's so harsh putting it that way. Marilyn manson said : "Art is born in suffering", or so.

I don't think those are their best albums, just the most heavy ones. If that's your point to judge, more brutal sound and noise, this is your conception, not mine.
Halo of blood was dedicated to his friend who died, and a lost of someone close is always a reason to lose it and start drink and bang and stuff.
People love drama, so they appreciate it high. I loved I worhip chaos, and Relentless too. New album is great, I admit, it;s professional and as expected - done well. But for me it never will be a good album, I listened it two times after it arrived. It just brings too much weight. By your logic it must be the best.


And directly on your question - self destruction doesn't make one artist better. I can't tell what bring Alexi to that point, but it wasn't something good.
My mentor in college used to say that art don't lie. For example, if an artist can't draw hands, he hide them behind a drape or other body part. Same with music. If you can call the last work of a man who was about to die, destroying himself, a good work, I can't do that. As a work it's great. As a revelation it's too much to handle.