The Genre Naming Convention

[JayKeeley]

I hate genre segregation, but I'd like to understand how other people categorize certain bands starting in and around the Black Metal core, so I guess this stems from that retarded GMD discussion about "Faggoth". There won't be any definitive answers I know, but I'm just shooting the shit.

OK, on with the basics (correct me where I'm wrong):

Black Metal - Mayhem, Darkthrone
Black Viking Metal - Enslaved, Helheim
Viking Metal - Thyrfing, Einherjer
Faggoth - Dimmu Borgir, Cradle of Filth
Norsecore - Marduk, Naglfar

So where would you put the following?

Emperor
Satyricon
Solefald
Borknagar
Arcturus
Agalloch

I guess I've seen Emperor listed as Faggoth, but I don't understand why. Do people only remember them for their last album or something?

 

[NAD]

Metal.

I fucking hate genre labels because those that label the band completely wrong by accident get hounded incessently by those "in the know," and then the omniscient start getting ultra specific with rigid terms that cannot be justified or explained (and of course not argued against either), and the whole thing just creates a vicious circle that I want no part of.

 

[JayKeeley]

I fucking hate genre labels because those that label the band completely wrong by accident get hounded incessently by those "in the know," and then the omniscient start getting ultra specific with rigid terms that cannot be justified or explained (and of course not argued against either), and the whole thing just creates a vicious circle that I want no part of.

That won't happen in this forum. The GMD should be shut down, or limited to newbies only. I don't get why people who have been posting at UM for years, or don't need recommendations from the general public, still visit that forum anyway. It should be an entry portal to the rest of UM, and once you don't need it anymore, leave it for the next generation of n00bs.

I do agree with you however, but no matter how agnostic we try to be, it's impossible to follow that through in reality. For example, certain people will dismiss ANYTHING whilst it falls under the Power Metal banner. On the flip side, certain people will buy ANYTHING if it belongs to an NSBM category.

The fact is, people (elitists through to newbies) live and thrive on genre naming, no matter how hard we pretend not to. They depend on it for disseminating information about new music that applies to their own personal tastes. Whether it be for new album purchases, recommendation listings, which metal websites to read, which forums to discuss music, etc etc. genre labelling tells us which path to take (and this applies to TV, movies, books, and so forth).

 

[NAD]

Yeah it's not the tool I criticize, just the hideous practice of it by the both the learned and the ignorant (I'm not saying everyone does it, but people from both camps do their fair share). Usually what I try to do is keep it one word, calling something thrash, black, grind, etc. Seeing crap like retro-heathen-black-power-thrash is just goofy.

 

[JayKeeley]

So all the bands listed in the first post, you would simply classify as "Black"?

 

[Hell Mike]

To a certain level it is good, it can help one finding good music and it is good to describe music, but personally I use a big lump of "black metal" or don't bother, mostly.

 

[NAD]

So all the bands listed in the first post, you would simply classify as "Black"?

I'm not sure if I could classify Solefald and Arcturus as black (at least in their current permutations), but yes. Obviously Agalloch and Emperor are not Darkthrone, but they all fall under the same massive (as in general) umbrella.

 

[NAD]

I like how there's a distinction between homosexuals and gay homosexuals.

 

[MajestikMøøse]

Agalloch are simply nowhere near black metal. Emperor used to be black metal and for the last couple of albums they were homosexual gay faggot metal for homosexual and gay homosexual faggot homosexuals.

thats one of the funniest things I've ever read, even though I like everything that Emperor has done.

 

[JayKeeley]

Is a gay homosexual the equivalent of a heterosexual? I'm just wondering if two negatives make a positive...

 

[spaffe]

i agree with you on those except that you labeled naglfar as norsecore. they don't sound anywhere near marduk or dark funeral, there's a clear hint of death in it all. i'd label them "fast paced death/black metal"
(i think the band themselves want to label their music as death metal simply btw)

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

Meh, I'd sooner put Naglfar in the "melodic death metal" category than "norsecore"...

I was going to comment on them as well; they're as close to Dissection as you can be without have Jon in the band, and Dissection was pretty much black only in theme/lyrical content/occasional guitar work.

Naglfar are black/death for lack of anything better to call it (which, btw, is what I would call Dissection).

Thyrfing are hardly black metal either; they're just viking metal, and the latest album is more death metal than anything else, just well, you know.

 

[Hell Mike]

Then again, calling many of the mentioned bands black metal would be blasphemic. What I meant was that I don't generally bother with ukranian neo-pagan folk black metal with doom influences and so on.

 

[Demonspell]

Emperor - symphonic progressive metal
Satyricon - true norwegian death & roll
Solefald - postmodern abstract metal
Borknagar - progressive metal (can't think of anything more misleadingly representative...)
Arcturus - cosmic orchestral metal
Agalloch - dark folk metal ambience

 

[SonOfNun]

Faggoth isn't even a genre. It sounds like some jackass 12 year old just made up a name to describe "un-tr00" bands. Dimmu Borgir release some good music and I think that anyone who can listen to them can just as easily listen to Immortal's Sons of Northern Darkness and many other albums from bands who don't have to put up with the same nonsense they do. They may not be black metal, and I could really care less if they are, but it sure seems they get a lot of shit simply because they are labeled black metal by some folks. I could give two shits if you dislike Dimmu Borgir because of their music, you have a right to, but if you dislike them simply because of their image or their supposed mainstream qualities (which is bullcrap) then its time to grow up.

Genre names cause more trouble then good in almost every case. Its better to just stick to the basics rather then come up with some ridiculous genre name that takes 5 minutes to say. I find it somewhat amusing that people get seriously offended when a band is labeled in the wrong genre, its a little ridiculous.

 

[Russell]

Emperor used to be black metal and for the last couple of albums they were homosexual gay faggot metal for homosexual and gay homosexual faggot homosexuals.

Well, Prometheus is my favourite Emperor album. Does this make me gay?

 

[En Vind Av Sorg]

Of course not. It just makes you a homosexual gay faggot, dont worry.

 

[JayKeeley]

homosexual + gay + faggot.

Sorry Russell, looks like three negatives make a negative.

 

[Russell]

No, it means I'm a straight meatball :Smug:

 

[lumitalvi]

Emperor used to be black metal and for the last couple of albums they were homosexual gay faggot metal for homosexual and gay homosexual faggot homosexuals.

I just have to so agree on this one.