The GOOD album cover thread.

[Satanstoenail]

You've both obviously misunderstood Trendkill's post. He doesn't hate those bands he mentioned (as far as I know). He was saying that if the genre evolves far enough that they aren't considered metal, then the newer stuff will be mindblowing.

so perhaps we should just change the topic because we are not going to agree and neither one of us is going to change our minds..

Yeah I'm over this argument, I've been through it several times since I've been on this forum.

Why should it be defined? Why should anything be defined and not be free forming for artistic expression and independence... and if defined, then who defines it? You? me? the Pope? Bush? lol

If you are against genre definition, why are you arguing that AC/DC are metal? Shouldn't you be arguing that they're just music?

So what is it Im supposed to accept ? rewriting history ? Young metal heads that were into the scene during the time of AC/DC were banging their heads to AC/DC, had nothing to do with me, nor yours and others attempt to rewrite history

I have never said Queen nor Kiss was metal. The best bet is for people to stop trying to place some hard "line". When you go back that far or through the life cycle of many of those bands you can find songs of many styles from bands. So there is no doubt most all of them did some full blown headbangers. In case you forgot metal has been all about headbanging, you can find examples of this in early Zep, Heep, Purple and others, try accepting that. Somewhere in here its been misinterpreted that in order to be metal it had to "be dark" or had to be "thrashy" and thats just bullshit, ever heard of power metal ? or progressive metal ? how about commercial metal/pop metal. Christ Maiden was not really that dark, they were head pounding head banging. It aint all about black, death or thrash metal they are but 3 applications. It aint all about referencing "the devil" or killing something. Total bullshit. Then further documented proof of your incorrect train of thought is NWOBHM... so please explain to me why it was a "new wave" and not a first wave ? More proof, look at the songs from the 70's covered by metal bands that have been clearly on the other side of the fuzzy line, they knew where it all came from

Yep, Hendrix may very well have written the first head banger, Purple Haze, was he metal? of course not, he was fairly diverse in his writting and the term metal was not yet applied. Same with Zep, very diverse yet you can find songs and definantly say that one is the sound that became heavy metal.

Here we have one example from STK trying to say bands that were clearly heavy metal and years after the fuzzy line had been clearly crossed were not metal, because he doesnt like them, that is just silly. Examples of people trying to do this can be found all the time.

The wheel is no longer chipped out of stone and less rarely formed out of wood, this does not mean that those that were are no longer wheels

So ya, real music people dont have these issues, nor do they try to rewrite the history of music. So do you got your head out of your butt yet or do I need to further explain?

oh great selective deleter of posts that dont agree with his personal taste yet doesnt fail to express displeasure of his own....

Razor, You should accept that music has evolved since the late 70s/early 80s, and what was applicable then has changed. Metal is a much broader and more clearly defined genre, with many subgenres, and has been analyzed to great lengths with the benefit of hindsight.

Metal isn't all about headbanging erk, it's about a style of music that has certain characteristics. AC/DC were influential in the early stages, as were Hendrix, Kiss, Queen, Zeppelin etc, and they have all been called metal at some point. This does not make them metal by default. I'm not rewriting any history books, I'll gladly acknowledge that AC/DC were considered a metal band by some back then. But I can't think of a better example of a hard rock band now. When I hear Hard Rock I certainly don't think of Foreigner or Aerosmith. I think of AC/DC.

Anyway enough of this, I'm over it, and I find your arrogant smugness intolerable. I deleted your post in the other thread because it was pure trolling, which you've been warned about.

 

[razoredge]

Now why would you make a statement that I dont accept that music has evolved ? Do I need to point toward the "blues" discussion of the SRV related subjects ? I know there are others as well.

I'm not in total disagreement with anyone here about the... lets call them early crossover bands. I find this topic interesting and always have. When full blown metal became apparent I related but couldnt figure out why, it had a fimiliarity. I had been away from rock music for a spell, listening to jazz and fusion or just plain working and doing the family thing. So I began to dig back, pulling out what remained of my old "hardrock" albums and borrowing or repurchasing ones I had given away. It was then when I discovered the fuzzy line during the transformation. I am not in full agreement with unfaithful either and he and I have had this "metal/hardrock" discussion before. My only point is that because music changes within a genre does not make those previous or that came later no longer or unacceptable in that genre, even if they fit in a few others as well, thus my point about not trying to draw a firm line and rebuilding the Berlin wall to keep bands out.

I totally disagree that metal is not about the headbanging. I believe history does as well. It was the driving power and roudyness of the music that stimulated youth, primarily male youth. Then there was also some culture involved and all this is another reason you cant rewrite history and demote the founders from the genre. By further example, now, here you seem to be trying to demote Aerosmith from the hardrock genre because you shoved AC/DC down there. I am well aware of AC/DC's more blues based roots than say Metallica but Metallica came in the early/mid 80's and AC/DC the mid/late 70's. Still doesnt change history, nor genre specifications, and certainly not the cultural influences of the early metal years.

wikipedia has a interesting artical on "heavy metal", sure everyone wants to laugh but there is pretty good arguements as to the importance of the process there and this one is full of footnotes. I looked there to see when first usage of the term "heavy metal" could be verified. They go back to mention usage of the term in media of bands such as Hendrix & Humble Pie. This is stuff I was unaware of. So the sections of importance pertaining to this discussion are Etymology, Antecedents, Origions, and Mainstream. There is info in other areas as well but I just breezed through them as I was looking for where and when the term was first applied. Which is primarily in the Etymology section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal

It was not trolling, I have been actively involved in that thread and it was a very good tongue in cheek response to the foolish remark prior. It in fact was not rude or crude, it was food for thought delivered to the point. You dont like my methods, I dont like yours. You find me intolerable, I find you disconnected and certainly a poor choice for moderator and I take responsibility for one of your votes. I live with it and you live with me, keep you warnings to yourself and accept diversity of personalities or resign. You were recently asked to leave and not come back to the "old school" section, which I was not in agreement with but I missed the entire thing and your posts were removed, so I fail to see where you have ANY room to talk. Straight up, everyone has to deal with one another. I lost respect for you along while back and you with me, its simply the sad truth. But there is no swearing or hard personal attacks.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Ok I've got some time to kill....

Now why would you make a statement that I dont accept that music has evolved ? Do I need to point toward the "blues" discussion of the SRV related subjects ? I know there are others as well.

You've chopped my sentence in half and concentrated on the first part for some reason.

I'm not in total disagreement with anyone here about the... lets call them early crossover bands. I find this topic interesting and always have. When full blown metal became apparent I related but couldnt figure out why, it had a fimiliarity. I had been away from rock music for a spell, listening to jazz and fusion or just plain working and doing the family thing. So I began to dig back, pulling out what remained of my old "hardrock" albums and borrowing or repurchasing ones I had given away. It was then when I discovered the fuzzy line during the transformation. I am not in full agreement with unfaithful either and he and I have had this "metal/hardrock" discussion before. My only point is that because music changes within a genre does not make those previous or that came later no longer or unacceptable in that genre, even if they fit in a few others as well, thus my point about not trying to draw a firm line and rebuilding the Berlin wall to keep bands out.

Fair enough, I'm not necessarily militant about it either, I accept that some people still classify AC/DC as an early metal/hard rock band. But surely I should be able to post the cover to Highway to Hell in the non-metal forum without getting told I can't because they're a metal band.

I totally disagree that metal is not about the headbanging. I believe history does as well. It was the driving power and roudyness of the music that stimulated youth, primarily male youth.

Headbanging is one of the many behavioral/image related aspects associated with the genre. To say that metal is all about headbanging is like saying punk is all about slam dancing. Obviously metal is all about the music primarily.

Then there was also some culture involved and all this is another reason you cant rewrite history and demote the founders from the genre.

As I said before, I'm not rewriting history or 'demoting' anyone, I accept that certain bands were considered metal back then and had an influence on the genre. I don't consider Led Zeppelin or Deep Purple to be metal bands either, but their influence on the genre is undeniable.

By further example, now, here you seem to be trying to demote Aerosmith from the hardrock genre because you shoved AC/DC down there. I am well aware of AC/DC's more blues based roots than say Metallica but Metallica came in the early/mid 80's and AC/DC the mid/late 70's. Still doesnt change history, nor genre specifications, and certainly not the cultural influences of the early metal years.

Argh. I'm not trying to demote Aerosmith from hardrock. I meant they're certainly not the first band I think of when I think of hardrock. Maybe it's because I'm Australian, but when I think of hardrock I think AC/DC, The Angels and Rose Tattoo.

wikipedia has a interesting artical on "heavy metal", sure everyone wants to laugh but there is pretty good arguements as to the importance of the process there and this one is full of footnotes. I looked there to see when first usage of the term "heavy metal" could be verified. They go back to mention usage of the term in media of bands such as Hendrix & Humble Pie. This is stuff I was unaware of. So the sections of importance pertaining to this discussion are Etymology, Antecedents, Origions, and Mainstream. There is info in other areas as well but I just breezed through them as I was looking for where and when the term was first applied. Which is primarily in the Etymology section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal

Yeah I've read that too and it kind of enforces my point: Heavy Metal as a term was applied to many bands back then who are no longer considered to be metal.

It was not trolling, I have been actively involved in that thread and it was a very good tongue in cheek response to the foolish remark prior. It in fact was not rude or crude, it was food for thought delivered to the point.

lol. Actually, it was your typical infammatory chilish nonsense that serves only to completely derail threads and end in shitfights. And it was completely unwarranted. Ninjageek's remark was foolish how exactly? See Einherjar's response for an example of a more mature way to behave.

You dont like my methods, I dont like yours. You find me intolerable, I find you disconnected and certainly a poor choice for moderator and I take responsibility for one of your votes. I live with it and you live with me, keep you warnings to yourself and accept diversity of personalities or resign. You were recently asked to leave and not come back to the "old school" section, which I was not in agreement with but I missed the entire thing and your posts were removed, so I fail to see where you have ANY room to talk. Straight up, everyone has to deal with one another. I lost respect for you along while back and you with me, its simply the sad truth. But there is no swearing or hard personal attacks.

Put yourself in my shoes for a sec. Since I've modded this forum, 90% of the shitfighting has had one common ingredient: YOU. I've had people PM me asking for you to be banned several times. I think I've been pretty lenient with you really, all I've done is delete a couple of your posts and warn you about your behaviour, and every time I do I cop another blast of your oppositional defiancy disorder. You have NEVER eaten any humble pie or admitted that you may have been out of line. So I'll continue to warn you about it thanks very much.

I'm all for diversity of personalities. Different people & opinions obviously makes for healthy discussion. I also think that you bring a lot of good discussion to the table. But you usually undo your good work with childishness, name calling and arrogance. It infuriates people and the discussion ends up getting completely clogged & derailed with stupid crap.

And as for bring up the Old School Forum incident: not only is it unrelated to this discussion and petty of you, you also admit to missing the whole thing (which by the way was one post of observation from me about the amount of puerile shit the Old School crowd were hanging on everyone in GMD).

 

[razoredge]

Oh gee, Im sorry, everyone else is right and Im always wrong, the only ass clown here. 90%... damn I popular.

I did notice one thing about the AC/DC cover when you posted it and it wasnt that they were borderline metal, if you recall I posted Heep covers, clearly one of the rootes of metal and very "metal"-ish covers, part of why I showed them. With the AC/DC cover it was its similarity of blandness to the rap covers that were in question. I didnt figure the little horns were enough to set it apart from say the zipper faces on the rap cover.

the old school ordeal I must not have missed because I saw the one post but there were others that were blank or had been quoted but no longer existed or something like that. As I said I didnt agree and almost spoke up but Im not a regular there (lucky them). I dont agree with the childish cries for bannings, especially considering some of the sources. I have never called for one, even under strong personal attacks, I can stand my own ground and know how to work any given situation, such as the feathery ones little gay porno link.

So to set things straight with the offended

old metal bands are no longer metal bands
SRV played pop not the blues, except when he sorta did he's the same as everyone else, nothing special, just well rehearsed
neoclassical metal does not exist
punk and rap are highly profound forms of music

Im not arrogant BTW, just very confident. "oppositional defiancy disorder" lol, good one, I'll have to remember that, its a 3 pointer and very accurate except for the disorder part [its actually a highly developed art form].

Always glad to be of assistance, I will now comply with what ever news is wished to be spred around here.

or not... hats off

 

[Satanstoenail]

Sigh.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

He was saying that if the genre evolves far enough that they aren't considered metal, then the newer stuff will be mindblowing.

then we shouldn't consider Bathory BM by that logic then... and consider it just metal...

Yeah I'm over this argument, I've been through it several times since I've been on this forum.

As have I.

If you are against genre definition, why are you arguing that AC/DC are metal? Shouldn't you be arguing that they're just music?

I am not so much against genre definition... I'm more against pushing a band that was widely considered a genre out of that genre just because the music has changed in the future...

 

[razoredge]

Sigh.

On a lighter funnier note, the point of the whole discussion was totally moot, there is easily a million people today that want to classify all the old stuff, 60's, 70's & 80's as... classic rock :zombie: Its a genre unto itself ya know....

 

[razoredge]

Heres one of my favorite "classi-crock" bands and album title if not cover, I guess the two two work well together

Think I'll pop Miami in now

 

[Einherjar86]

I've always loved the image on this album for some reason:

 

[razoredge]

? Well it appears the subjects are looking out at the real world rather than the distractions. What do you read ?

 

[Einherjar86]

I don't necessarily know what's going on in it, or what it means for the band. But the image combines so many mythological and classical/pastoral elements. I find it to be very calming and fantastical. I also like how there is no defined floor beneath the figures (most likely gods). They appear to simply be standing on sky. I agree that it seems as though they're looking down on earth. It isn't necessarily that I know what's going on; the image just moves me in a certain way.

 

[Satanstoenail]

The thing I love about this cover is that it's actually a real pic of them as teens in the mid eighties.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

I don't remember seeing that album or album cover... in the 80's... and to think that they started out as a Hardcore punk band in the early 80's... but i still liked their material as a rap group... especially their debut album..

 

[razoredge]

I don't necessarily know what's going on in it, or what it means for the band. But the image combines so many mythological and classical/pastoral elements. I find it to be very calming and fantastical. I also like how there is no defined floor beneath the figures (most likely gods). They appear to simply be standing on sky. I agree that it seems as though they're looking down on earth. It isn't necessarily that I know what's going on; the image just moves me in a certain way.

Yeah, but often I ponder what the artist is trying to express. In this one I didnt see "looking down on" I saw looking out at. I was wishing a few people would have took a bite at that Demons and Wizards cover. I owned that for decades before it dawned on me what I was looking at.

 

[Einherjar86]

Well, what do you think it is you're looking at? Because I don't really know what to make of that cover.

 

[Belligerent]

God i HATE the Beastie Boys.

Heres a cool RHCP cover and a GREAT album. (actually the only RHCP album i care about/listen to)

 

[razoredge]

Well, what do you think it is you're looking at? Because I don't really know what to make of that cover.

I assume you mean D&W ?

First of all it could be seen as a very perverted painting. With the waterfall you are looking at the genitals of a man and woman. So it could simply be a slight of hand by the artist to show the Wizard saying "come on everyone and screw". But then there is the tree which is the area of pubic... so I interpret it as being the tree of life from which "the waters" flow. Much of the topic within the record is regarding peace and love, sure it was the tail end of the peace and love hippy thing but this album used the Wizard as they were fabled to help good conquer evil. So I dig deeper and feel that the flowing water comes from the tree, the pinnacle of the painting and represents life and the tree of life and the function from which the seeds of life comes. Took me over 25 years to see that and for what ever reason that was always one of my favorites, so I starred at it plenty when in my teens. It was even painted on a HUGE mural for me by one sweet classmate for our senior ball. When I realized what I was looking at I wondered if she had upon painting it.

It is almost masked by distraction from the eclips of the moon creating a near owl image so I think that is part of why it took so long to see it... but that aint no owl beak... lol

Now I will prolly get a warning for posting porn

 

[Satanstoenail]

I don't remember seeing that album or album cover... in the 80's... and to think that they started out as a Hardcore punk band in the early 80's... but i still liked their material as a rap group... especially their debut album..

It's their latest best of album, it didn't come out in the eighties.

God i HATE the Beastie Boys.

What have you heard? Check Your Head and Ill Communication are fucking super awesome. I demand that you go listen to them with fresh ears.

 

[Belligerent]

What have you heard? Check Your Head and Ill Communication are fucking super awesome. I demand that you go listen to them with fresh ears.

Sorry bro I've heard it all. They annoy the piss out of me with "I'll stir fry you in my WOP, don't you even STOP, hit in the head with a POT".

Obviously not the lyrics but...

 

[Matt]

The Beastie Boys are fucking horrible