The Great Cold Distance vs. Night is the New Day

Which aşbum do you like better?


  • Total voters
    42

batmura

Sea of Tranquility
Nov 1, 2001
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www.seaoftranquility.org
As with many fans, there are two different Katatonia bands for me: old Katatonia and new Katatonia. I consider their stuff through Discouraged Ones, the old Katatonia and for me Brave Murder Day is their masterpiece. From the new Katatonia, I used to consider The Great Cold Distance their finest hour. It surpassed Last Fair Deal Gone and simple became a desert island disc for me... until Night is the New Day came out. I admit I've spun their last one obsessively since its release -- so much that I could sing the lyrics and hum the melodies backwards. The internal complexity of the album and the songs' 'organization' are simply breathtaking. Whenever I play it, I am convinced it is their most realized work. However, then I pop in The Great Cold Distance and there it is again. The ultimate masterpiece. I just can't decide which album I like better.

How about you guys? Which of these two discs do you prefer and why? I understand that neither disc may be your favourite Katatonia album, but I'd still like to hear which one you consider better.

Thanks!
 
The Great Cold Distance (actually, Viva Emptiness). NITND is weak on a couple of tracks and not as musically interesting as TGCD, I find it also a bit monotonous in a way that they missed a lot of elements they introduced in other albums. I see it as a step down.
 
not as musically interesting as TGCD, I find it also a bit monotonous in a way that they missed a lot of elements they introduced in other albums. I see it as a step down.

How do you figure? NitND may be monotonous tempo-wise, but it's easily their most diverse as far as "elements" go from track to track. TGCD on the other hand blends more than any of their other records. Yes, TGCD is slightly more complex than their other records musically; however, nothing mind blowing either. I figure most people listen to Katatonia for their songwriting skillz, rather than their musical prowess. Neither record had staying power for me, although I'd say NitND is a step in the right direction.
 
Night is the New Day for me, I like TGCD but it's the darkness that's missing from that record where as Night is probably their darkest album of the new era (save the day and the shade, which sounds a bit too poppy). With Night here's also something dynamically going on in the songs that's very unique and sonically it's superior as well. TGCD has a few filler songs that don't do much for me where on Night I enjoy every song.

The Great Cold Distance is still a pretty amazing record and don't forget from those sessions we got the songs Unfurl and Code Against the Code Vs the very average-for-a-B-side Sold Heart (from night... sessions)
 
TGCD for me, but not by too much. TGCD is a bit samey at times, but on the other hand Leaders is nothing like Deliberation, My Twin is nothing like Consternation, and July is nothing like Journey Through Pressure. Really, my only complaint about TGCD is that Displaced, Unfurl, and Code Against The Code could have replaced a few tracks that made the cut for the album. Love the epic, beautiful leads on Displaced and the haunting melancholy of Unfurl! Perhaps I enjoyed the choruses on TGCD a bit more, but it's not as if the choruses on NITND are not superb at times. I have grown particularly fond of
The Longest Year, Idle Blood, Onward Into Battle, New Night, and Departer. The main flaw with NITND is the flow of the album from tracks 6-11. There is literally nothing uptempo or driving other than Day & Then The Shade, and sometimes the album seems to suffer because of the lack of drive/diversity of tempos over the final 6 tunes.
 
TGCD for me, but not by too much. TGCD is a bit samey at times, but on the other hand Leaders is nothing like Deliberation, My Twin is nothing like Consternation, and July is nothing like Journey Through Pressure. Really, my only complaint about TGCD is that Displaced, Unfurl, and Code Against The Code could have replaced a few tracks that made the cut for the album. Love the epic, beautiful leads on Displaced and the haunting melancholy of Unfurl! Perhaps I enjoyed the choruses on TGCD a bit more, but it's not as if the choruses on NITND are not superb at times. I have grown particularly fond of
The Longest Year, Idle Blood, Onward Into Battle, New Night, and Departer. The main flaw with NITND is the flow of the album from tracks 6-11. There is literally nothing uptempo or driving other than Day & Then The Shade, and sometimes the album seems to suffer because of the lack of drive/diversity of tempos over the final 6 tunes.
Yeah, what he said.
 
I love both albums nearly equal. However, if I go track vs. track, it appears NIGHT IS THE NEW DAY holds a slight edge.

1. Leaders vs. Forsaker - Forsaker for sure. Great dark, haunting chorus.
2. Deliberation vs. The Longest Year - Neither of these songs do a whole lot for me, however I love 3:05 - 3:25 on The Longest Year, and Deliberation doesn't have a "wow" moment in it, so I have to give it to The Longest Year.
3. Soil's Song vs. Idle Blood - This is nearly a tie. I love the verses of Soil's Song, but the chorus doesn't blow me away. On the flipside I love the choruses of Idle Blood, but the verses don't do much for me and once it crosses 3:06 at the tempo change, I lose interest in the song. Overall, I'd have to give it to Soil's Song.
4. My Twin vs. Onward Into Battle - This is another tough one just like above for the same reasons. I love the verses of My Twin, but the choruses don't do much for me. Onward Into Battle has one of the best sounding choruses of any Katatonia song, however the verses do not interest me near as much (and the chorus is only done twice, like most songs on NITND). Since My Twin was the first song that REALLY won me over to Katatonia though, I'll have to say My Twin wins.
5. Consternation vs. Liberation - No contest....Liberation wins.
6. Follower vs. The Promise Of Deceit - Again...no contest...The Promise Of Deceit wins.
7. Rusted vs. Nephilim - I'll give it to Rusted, even though neither song is one of my favorites.
8. Increase vs. New Night - New Night wins, but not by a whole lot.
9. July vs. Inheritance - I think July has one of the best intros, but I get chills from 2:30 through the end of the song on Inheritance during the "let them inherit this fire now..." parts. The vocals are very soothing. So Inheritance wins.
10. In The White vs. Day And Then The Shade - In The White wins here as it has the better chorus. Day And Then The Shade has a very strange chorus that is not memorable. The verses and bridge/ending are great though. But for a whole song, In The White is the better song.
11. The Itch vs. Ashen - Definitely Ashen. I am not a fan of The Itch and only listen to it when I want to listen to the full albums together.
12. Journey Through Pressure vs. Departer - Journey Through Pressure wins here. Departer would have won, but I absolutely hate how Jonas stops singing on the second half of Departer. The first half is so amazing, whereas the second half just makes me say "ugh!".

So overall it looks like this:
THE GREAT COLD DISTANCE - 5
NIGHT IS THE NEW DAY - 7

Still, TGCD is the album that made me a huge fan of Katatonia and got my full attention. None of their earlier work interested me because I did not like Jonas's vocals. There were a few songs on VIVA EMPTINESS that I liked, but TGCD was when I was completely blown away by how much the vocals had improved. The haunting chant-like phrasing and beautiful melisma in his voice is what was missing from their earlier works. TGCD is when I felt he perfected his vocal style, and I was thrilled to hear that style continue in NITND. If his voice only expands upon the style he has recently been displaying then I know the next Katatonia album will be something fantastic. These two albums alone have already spoiled many other bands for me. In fact I am still waiting to hear a new album that impresses me half as much as NITND did. It's the last cd I bought that has limitless replay value.
 
Agreed, but same goes for TGCD. Jonas' vocals especially are just too pristine and restrained these days. To me it's the flaws that are always the most interesting. And what's with this melisma business Coil82 is always going on about? Dude's not Urethra Franklin for christ sake. Jonas LFDGD-Viva = quite possibly the greatest timbre known to man.



Speaking of soft falsetto. Forgot about Passing Bird since it's been a while. Has to be the highest note he's ever hit on record.
 
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Bluesky, before I got into Katatonia, I was always a fan of gregorian monk chant (in fact I'd love to hear Katatonia do some songs with that in the background). I love the subtle changes in notes while being sung in a brooding, despair-filled tone (although in gregorian chant it is done slower). He does it in older songs (like "Passing Bird") but the burdened tone in his voice is missing. The tone of Jonas's voice now is what makes it work so well. For example just using "My Twin" as an example....the parts that make the whole difference in that song is how he sings certain words in the verses which are in bold:

"I thought that you had grown, that you would carry on. But now that I am gone, what else has been withdrawn?"...the way his vocals carry up and then back down (very subtle) on the words "grown" and "gone" is what I love to hear and what gave me chills the first time I heard it. For me it's not about the range of his voice or whether he can do falsetto. I love the subdued, tortured, "sick to death of life" type tone in his voice nowadays, and when he adds that very subtle melisma to his voice, it adds a haunting beauty to such a tormented voice. He does the same thing in other songs like "July", "Departer", etc.

The music itself was always great in Katatonia, but I couldn't hear that controlled melodic misery in his voice in their earlier material. It sounds (as you described) "flawed" and raw, almost like he recorded the vocals up in his room (although there are songs like "Omerta" and "A Premonition" where it sounds better than others). A lot of people can appreciate that raw sound, but for some reason it doesn't sound near as dark/eerie to me as what he does now. I love to hear a haunting melodic voice fronting dark, brooding music. I love the band Tool for the same reason as Katatonia (although Maynard does have more range with his voice and it does sound controlled, whereas Jonas has to try a little harder to pull in those few wild horses, which is why I don't think his voice works as well when he uses more range).

I would love to hear some of their older songs rerecorded with his newer style as I am certain I would like them better that way. "Dispossession" is just one example. I absolutely love the music in this song and there are parts where I enjoy his voice, but there are other parts that make me cringe. There are no "cringe-worthy" areas to be found anywhere on THE GREAT COLD DISTANCE nor NIGHT IS THE NEW DAY (except for when Jonas disappears in "Departer" and Krister takes over). The only song from either two albums where he sounds different (vocally) is "Dissolving Bonds". He sings the verses in a different tone than the rest of the newer material (the first time I heard it I actually thought he sounded a bit like Dave Matthews), but it still works in this particular song, especially back at the chorus.

Anyway that is the best way I can describe it with my limited technical knowledge/vocabulary when it comes to the actual music-creating process. I know what I love to hear and can instantly recognize it when I do hear it, but I am very bad at describing it properly. :bah:
 
I couldn't hear that controlled melodic misery in his voice in their earlier material.

Couldn't disagree more and although I can't speak for Jonas, the music speaks for itself. Jonas is married now and has kids I believe. You can't expect someone to be in the same mindset forever. The old songs were truly emotionally charged and it really shows in the deliverance. You yourself admit that they're now subdued because that's exactly what they are. They sound more like a bored sedated man going through the motions of life, rather than a "tortured" soul. The music has also shifted along with the vocals. There was a point where you could legitimately call katatonia depressive rock, but now I would hardly call it depressive at all imho. The music doesn't necessarily need to be depressive, I just wish something will rekindle that spark once again some day. Sadly this is just something that happens at some point in practically everyone's career if they're at it for long enough.

Edit: I don't want to be a complete downer. Production-wise they're at the top of their game and with TGCD b-sides and NitND they've proven that they're really open to diversifying their sound. Huge props to that.
 
Couldn't disagree more and although I can't speak for Jonas, the music speaks for itself. Jonas is married now and has kids I believe. You can't expect someone to be in the same mindset forever. The old songs were truly emotionally charged and it really shows in the deliverance. You yourself admit that they're now subdued because that's exactly what they are. They sound more like a bored sedated man going through the motions of life, rather than a "tortured" soul. The music has also shifted along with the vocals. There was a point where you could legitimately call katatonia depressive rock, but now I would hardly call it depressive at all imho. The music doesn't necessarily need to be depressive, I just wish something will rekindle that spark once again some day. Sadly this is just something that happens at some point in practically everyone's career if they're at it for long enough.

Edit: I don't want to be a complete downer. Production-wise they're at the top of their game and with TGCD b-sides and NitND they've proven that they're really open to diversifying their sound. Huge props to that.
We don't often agree, but I couldn't have said it better :Spin:
 
I couldn't hear that controlled melodic misery in his voice in their earlier material.

True, it was not very controlled. But the vocals on DODS, DO, TD etc. speak volumes for themselves. There is so much emotion, sadness, hate, defeat, depression, loneliness in this voice. It has a blunt honesty.
20 years later Jonas is technically a much better singer. His voice has grown. This is great in itself, but it is also not the same it was before.

For me, Katatonia still do sad music. But it is a much different kind. It no longer conjures images of lone nights in a dark room with just your thoughts as company or whatever image you like.. it is older, more experienced, more world-weary in a way that is distinctly grown up. We all grow with the years. So did they.
 
Jonas' vocals had much more feeling in earlier albums.In Viva Emptiness they got a bit more plain but with feelings again. After VE it is much more technical but lacks almost the half of the feeling in his earlier vocals. I don't know why, it's just how I feel... The misery in his voice is missing. But hey as BlueSky said, he has a different life now with different feelings so it's kinda normal I guess.