The News Thread

Tuition is not even close to being free. As an undergraduate I had good grades out of high school and a strong ACT and did not qualify for jack shit because my parents technically made too much money (if combined income is over like $60k you're basically fucked).
 
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So, where's this large number of people who graduated from college for free? 5700 dollars a year in Pell grants won't keep people out of debt. A typical state university costs about 6k a semester full time. So....ill keep waiting I guess.

For the time that I was an undergrad, I received both state university system grants and university specific grants to make up the difference between the Pell grant and tuition charges. My wife received the same things. Plus I applied for and received other grants and scholarships based on academics, and had the GI bill that I earned to apply to it. I'm not pulling all 50 states, and I'm not pulling institutional grants for every institution. In NC for 2016-2017 the annual tuition and fee cost is $10,572. The Pell Grant provides a max of $5,815 based on need. Even without any further assistance that's only 20k in loans for a 4 year degree if you didn't receive another dime (which if you rate the max Pell, you should rate some institutional assistance as well, and if you actually apply yourself, can also gain other academically awarded and need based aid). Edit: Also, you could do the first 2 years at a CC and the Pell will cover the tuition.

I don't know why Matt is complaining about his privilege. You should be happy about the opportunity to pay something back to the society that you are gaining so much from.
 
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Yeah I mean, what's $20+ grand in debt when you have a spiffy degree and a cool looking diploma and no job to show for it. No big deal right? Chump change.

Well, if you do the full 4 years at a uni when you could have done 2 at a CC, make no effort to procure additional funding, don't finish in 4 years, and get a degree in a field where you don't need it/there's a lack of demand, and can't separate yourself from other applicants - whose fault is that?

Here's a big part of the problem:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/e...-dont-earn-degree-in-4-years-study-finds.html

At most public universities, only 19 percent of full-time students earn a bachelor’s degree in four years, the report found. Even at state flagship universities — selective, research-intensive institutions — only 36 percent of full-time students complete their bachelor’s degree on time.
 
At most public universities, only 19 percent of full-time students earn a bachelor’s degree in four years, the report found. Even at state flagship universities — selective, research-intensive institutions — only 36 percent of full-time students complete their bachelor’s degree on time.

I'm in both the 19% and 36%. That was a bitch finishing in 4 years after transferring.
 
ITT people who receive free education finds nothing wrong with the system. Shocker. Dakrynian Theory 101

The word choice is baffling of the non-military. So many times i've read from civilians that earning the GI Bill is equivalent to having wealthy parents. I could easily say that your parents suck and fucked you because they rather wanted to keep up with the Joneses than properly save for your education.

All public universities are funded to 100% of state and federal pell grants. If you are poor, you get at least 100%. I got a slight 'profit' when I went to a CC. I get exact tuition at CU Boulder. If you are semi poor, you receive a % of that. This has inflated costs which obviously hurts the non-poor but not-wealthy. But people are fucking dumb. They don't make smart decisions. Go to a CC for 2 years to take the same courses at a 4year institution? Nah, i'd rather spend 2gs a month at a dorm and a massive rise in tuition costs. Buy books online/rent? Nah, i'd rather pay out of pocket. Live at home? Nah, i'm too cool for that. Let me pay for rent all 3 years. Take more than 12 credit hours? Nah, that's too much work. Summer courses? Nah.

There's so much bullshit on the part of college students that it makes me resent them.
 
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ITT people who receive free education finds nothing wrong with the system. Shocker. Dakrynian Theory 101

ITT privileged people are mad that the socioeconomically disadvantaged worked their ass off to achieve two undergraduate degrees, both with honors, on time (course load wise), while married with kids to another fulltime undergraduate and working 2 part time jobs, debt free, however 9 years later than traditional students.

You don't even have a nub to rest on.

rms is 100% correct. Not only do students make simple dumb decisions about the education experience itself, but they take out max loans for shit completely unrelated to the education. Like new cars, new MacBooks, eating out, parties, etc etc. They do that for 6 years, get a "University studies" degree because their funding ran out and all they did was surf 1000 level classes, and then complain because they can't find a job to service the 100k in debt for living large on borrowed money.

The hypocrisy and ignorance from the gimmedat crowd is off the charts.
 
They do have a point about parent's income Dak which you and I didn't have to deal with since we waited to get degrees. unless you're 25 it's very difficult to support yourself and pay university tuition. Most kids under 25 aren't disciplined enough to do it. After 25 parent's income isn't considered and it's much easier to get financial aid. It's part of the reason I waited.
 
They do have a point about parent's income Dak which you and I didn't have to deal with since we waited to get degrees. unless you're 25 it's very difficult to support yourself and pay university tuition. Most kids under 25 aren't disciplined enough to do it. After 25 parent's income isn't considered and it's much easier to get financial aid. It's part of the reason I waited.

Well rms spoke to this: 18-22 year olds whose parents make enough money to prevent them from being awarded need-based grants (yet provide no help) - and didn't apply themselves to be awarded academic/athletic scholarships really have no one to complain about except who they see in the mirror and at the dinner table. Now of course someone can find an exception to that, but it's not some sort of "systemic issue" that a Larry David clone is going to fix.

BTW my sister is dealing with this situation right now and guess what? She's working her ass off as a waitress, making free living accommodations where she can, and taking the CC route.

Edit: My parents are some outliers as high IQ fuckups, and they haven't learned a goddamn thing with age. They set every single one of me and my siblings behind socioeconomically, and really the only advantage we had was the fact that our homeschooling involved mostly self-teaching + we were smart enough to learn "what not to do". Well, at least all of us but the youngest. Not sure about that one yet. At any rate, we have all been put "behind" and had to do the bootstrap thing. That + my observations of a wide variety of US citizen humanity has left me very disinclined to feel any significant sympathy for the goddamn whining from the Matt's and Mort's of the world.
 
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Why what did you major in?

If it's sociology sorry but it's not just an opinion. I've seen multiple articles ranking sociology as one of the worst if not the worst for employment. It's possible to get a good job in that field but unlikely.

philosophy which is probably no better. i wasn't disagreeing, i'm a lazy, ambitionless motherfucker, truly a drain upon society.
 
ITT privileged people are mad that the socioeconomically disadvantaged worked their ass off to achieve two undergraduate degrees, both with honors, on time (course load wise), while married with kids to another fulltime undergraduate and working 2 part time jobs, debt free, however 9 years later than traditional students.

You don't even have a nub to rest on.

rms is 100% correct. Not only do students make simple dumb decisions about the education experience itself, but they take out max loans for shit completely unrelated to the education. Like new cars, new MacBooks, eating out, parties, etc etc. They do that for 6 years, get a "University studies" degree because their funding ran out and all they did was surf 1000 level classes, and then complain because they can't find a job to service the 100k in debt for living large on borrowed money.

The hypocrisy and ignorance from the gimmedat crowd is off the charts.

Congratulations? I'm happy for you and all that you've accomplished. However, your situation is different than mine and most others. I did not have the luxury of grants and aid money because I'm so privileged (because slightly above the poverty line = luxury). I did not waste loan money on anything more than what I needed for books. I would've had a significant debt regardless of whether I did that or not and I graduated with a degree in Economics and a minor finance. My dad used the GI bill and I'm not against it at all; I'm simply saying people that use that or grants or get their education subsidized in some way have no right to sit on their high horse and assume that everyone had the same options. Yes, I could have joined the military right out of high school instead of going to college but I wanted to play baseball and join later on as an officer. And yes, I worked 30 hours a week while going to school full time WHILE playing baseball in college. Of course I didn't get an athletic scholarship that covered much because I was transfer student, but whatever.

I'm sure some students use excess loan money irresponsibly, but it's typical of people like you to just assume that instead of there being a systematic problem with the education system and cost of tuition, that its simply the fault of the student/borrower. Also, you both are unaware of how the private loan system works. The school certifies only a certain amount that they judge to be reasonable and there is a cap to how much you borrow. You can't just go to school for 6 years and take out 20k a year.

You do this all the time in topics relating to disadvantaged groups. It's always the fault of the individual and because you were able to climb out of shitty circumstances you assume everyone can and should be able to help themselves the same way. But those people are just takers right? Myself included - I'm from the 'gimmedat' crowd because I think that cost of tuition is fucking ridiculous? Stop spewing biased, better-than garbage. You're not that much smarter than anyone else and you had plenty of help along the way.

Point: it is simply false that there is money for tuition for everyone. I had a 3.5 GPA out of high school, 28 ACT, and played baseball and got just a partial scholarship everywhere I applied but I did not get even close to a full ride. Should I just have forgone higher education and got a shitty job instead?
 
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All public universities are funded to 100% of state and federal pell grants. If you are poor, you get at least 100%. I got a slight 'profit' when I went to a CC. I get exact tuition at CU Boulder. If you are semi poor, you receive a % of that. This has inflated costs which obviously hurts the non-poor but not-wealthy. But people are fucking dumb. They don't make smart decisions. Go to a CC for 2 years to take the same courses at a 4year institution? Nah, i'd rather spend 2gs a month at a dorm and a massive rise in tuition costs. Buy books online/rent? Nah, i'd rather pay out of pocket. Live at home? Nah, i'm too cool for that. Let me pay for rent all 3 years. Take more than 12 credit hours? Nah, that's too much work. Summer courses? Nah.

There's so much bullshit on the part of college students that it makes me resent them.

All of this is just fucking garbage. Making up pretend examples does nothing at all for your argument. And my parents could not save a cent for my college tuition because of the same things Dakryn discussed with his family. Poor financial planning, ill-timed layoffs, etc left me with having to mortgage my future in hopes of bettering it all while still being considered 'upper class'.
 
That's the problem with your view. System is fucked and 90% of the population is doing the right thing. Fucking mainstream ideology that it's either one or the other.

Pretend examples? I fucking lived it. I went to a CC after high school, didn't have a car and lived at home. What was my major? Engineering. What did I do my first semester? Get a certificate to be a machinist at a corporation while I finished school and hoped they would hire me. My university has the ability to add 'school' money to the student ID to pay for dining hall, books, shit at the book store etc. It's all a fucking scam. Kids are too dumb to understand nutrition so they eat out every meal or suffer on ramen. The university where I grew up (Univ at Buffalo) has partnered with local restaurants and stores to have this same 'student id' debit card thing. It's insane how uninformed and stupid people are in an era when everything is available.

The pell grant thing is entirely true and I'll paste my stupid ass financial aid thing here if you want, since I technically make 0$.
 
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Congratulations? I'm happy for you and all that you've accomplished. However, your situation is different than mine and most others. I did not have the luxury of grants and aid money because I'm so privileged (because slightly above the poverty line = luxury). I did not waste loan money on anything more than what I needed for books. I would've had a significant debt regardless of whether I did that or not and I graduated with a degree in Economics and a minor finance. My dad used the GI bill and I'm not against it at all; I'm simply saying people that use that or grants or get their education subsidized in some way have no right to sit on their high horse and assume that everyone had the same options. Yes, I could have joined the military right out of high school instead of going to college but I wanted to play baseball and join later on as an officer. And yes, I worked 30 hours a week while going to school full time WHILE playing baseball in college. Of course I didn't get an athletic scholarship that covered much because I was transfer student, but whatever.

I'm sure some students use excess loan money irresponsibly, but it's typical of people like you to just assume that instead of there being a systematic problem with the education system and cost of tuition, that its simply the fault of the student/borrower. Also, you both are unaware of how the private loan system works. The school certifies only a certain amount that they judge to be reasonable and there is a cap to how much you borrow. You can't just go to school for 6 years and take out 20k a year.

You do this all the time in topics relating to disadvantaged groups. It's always the fault of the individual and because you were able to climb out of shitty circumstances you assume everyone can and should be able to help themselves the same way. But those people are just takers right? Myself included - I'm from the 'gimmedat' crowd because I think that cost of tuition is fucking ridiculous? Stop spewing biased, better-than garbage. You're not that much smarter than anyone else and you had plenty of help along the way.

Point: it is simply false that there is money for tuition for everyone. I had a 3.5 GPA out of high school, 28 ACT, and played baseball and got just a partial scholarship everywhere I applied but I did not get even close to a full ride. Should I just have forgone higher education and got a shitty job instead?

So you wanted to play baseball. Your decision. Don't complain.

I don't assume everyone can, in the sense that people don't have the same genetically bestowed abilities. But the options exist. The money is there for the people who will make the hard decisions. Why must the decisions be easy? That's all that you seem to be supporting. Easy street for everything. That's all a separate problem entirely from tuition cost, and your preferred "solutions" exacerbate the problem, which is amazing as somehow a minor in economics apparently did fuck all for your actual knowledge of economics.

As to your last question, yes you should have deferred your higher education and just accepted the possibility of playing baseball in the Army or something and enlisted.

Lastly, I'm going to address your two separate personal attacks: My intelligence and the amount of help that I received. I've never taken an official IQ test but based on achievement ballparks, GPA, AFQT, and the GRE scores, I ballpark it in the 125-135 range. That's high but not "genius" range. Honestly I think it's probably the upper 120s rather than in the 130s. What sets me apart from my IQ peer group is my life experiences and my personality. I grew up socioeconomically disadvantaged, and I have an extremely analytical personality, yet not in a numbers sense. This sets me apart from the Sheldon crowd, as well as the silver spoon crowd, which is increasingly synonymous with the high IQ crowd. Even Ein couldn't match my Qualitative(essentially reading comprehension/knowledge) score on the GRE, and that's the sole aspect of his degree orientation, and he said he "didn't think a perfect score was possible". But there it sits on my ETS record. My absolute intelligence may or may not be any higher than yours, but my education (I've probably read 10x more general non-fiction than anyone on this forum) and ability to comprehend and synthesize I would put against literally anyone on Earth. That's not some sort of Trumpentine boastfulness, that's mere directness.

As far as "help": I havent received one goddamn penny or word of help I didn't put 10x in effort and sweat into receiving. I will not be guilted into some sort of "lol u dinbildat" position. I worked my goddamn ass off to get where I haven't even gotten yet, and the only help I received on the way is a few letters of recommendation listing a fraction of what I have done along the way, to people who have yet to see what I can do.
 
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