The News Thread

[Dak]

I could be wrong, but I didn't think HBB was saying that China is pro-equality, or progressive, or anything comparable. I thought he was suggesting that China's evidence of racism and gender bias isn't necessarily tied to its quasi-socialist agenda (and let's give credit where credit is due, China's socialism is a weird capitalist/globalist brand of socialism--it's strange).

I thought this entire argument stemmed from a comment about China being racist because they're socialist. But I'm not sure and I'm not going back 5+ pages to check.

I was commenting at Mort that there's no inherent minority support in Leftism, as it was originally invented by and for whites (specifically the English and Germans). Then HBB jumped in disagreeing with unsubstantiated claims about how Soviet Russia/Maoist China were bastions of race and gender equality.

 

[Dak]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-media-has-a-probability-problem/

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Wow I am totally blowing it these days

Meth is not good for you.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Slave owners owned slaves, then didn't own them. Many were even abolitionists.

Adolf Hitler exterminated people, The Ottoman Empire exterminated Armenians.
Yes, a huge amount of slaves were murdered etc but slavery and genocide are not morally equivalent.

I'd probably rather be killed than be a slave tbh. Maybe if I had a nice master that patted me on the head when I did my job I'd make an exception.

Excellent. Please click on "Family Pressure and Marriage".

Looks like stuff that applies in most of the world, and often a result of the biological clock as much as anything else. Ovaries have a limited duration, of course familial pressure exists in non-first world countries lacking the luxury to not be concerned with the family line.

don't think HBB understands the intense pressure that Chinese societies place on male heirs, so much so their history is riddled with texts begging women not to kill their female young.

Just because the labor gap is so large in China that it appears not to discriminate in terms of hiring does not mean China is at all pro-equality or something. This is a really fucking bad take HBB

Sure, but the point is that Mao, a leftist, actively worked to fight said pressure. This is in distinction to most/all rightist political movements. I'm not saying I want to be a Chinese woman or anything.

I could be wrong, but I didn't think HBB was saying that China is pro-equality, or progressive, or anything comparable. I thought he was suggesting that China's evidence of racism and gender bias isn't necessarily tied to its quasi-socialist agenda (and let's give credit where credit is due, China's socialism is a weird capitalist/globalist brand of socialism--it's strange).

I thought this entire argument stemmed from a comment about China being racist because they're socialist. But I'm not sure and I'm not going back 5+ pages to check.

I was only replying in response to Mort's claim that leftists, rather than liberals, are concerned with minority inequality, and the following guffawing from Dak et al.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Maybe if I had a nice master that patted me on the head when I did my job

So you want a heads-up before the jizzshot?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I was commenting at Mort that there's no inherent minority support in Leftism, as it was originally invented by and for whites (specifically the English and Germans). Then HBB jumped in disagreeing with unsubstantiated claims about how Soviet Russia/Maoist China were bastions of race and gender equality.

"Inherent", maybe not; Ceausescu's Romania obviously didn't care about women's rights at all. But it is the place you'll find minority support most frequently.

I'll admit that my use of the word "minimal" wrt gender responsibilities was probably too strong. Biology will never erase that and societies will always feed on it. I'd still say significantly reduced compared to the alternative in the West circa the 40s-early 60s.

So you want a heads-up before the jizzshot?

yes please armenian daddy

 

[Dak]

Looks like stuff that applies in most of the world, and often a result of the biological clock as much as anything else. Ovaries have a limited duration, of course familial pressure exists in non-first world countries lacking the luxury to not be concerned with the family line.

Sure, but the point is that Mao, a leftist, actively worked to fight said pressure. This is in distinction to most/all rightist political movements. I'm not saying I want to be a Chinese woman or anything.

I was only replying in response to Mort's claim that leftists, rather than liberals, are concerned with minority inequality, and the following guffawing from Dak et al.

Heavy pressure for traditional gender roles from parents on both genders =/= biological clock. Also, those parents probably grew up to some degree in a China that was the most influenced by Mao as possible - and still push these hyper-traditional gender roles as it relates to marriage and family. As to your point about "non-first world", I don't think that applies to China at this point, and doesn't do anything to support your earlier assertion about leftism being inherently about no race or gender biases or norms.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Heavy pressure for traditional gender roles from parents on both genders =/= biological clock. Also, those parents probably grew up to some degree in a China that was the most influenced by Mao as possible - and still push these hyper-traditional gender roles as it relates to marriage and family. As to your point about "non-first world", I don't think that applies to China at this point, and doesn't do anything to support your earlier assertion about leftism being inherently about no race or gender biases or norms.

So until leftists successfully extirpate cultural norms regarding gender, they cannot be considered to be fighting for what they perceive as gender equality? By that standard no one cares about gender equality. The right-wing doesn't care about immigration nor libertarians about minimal government by that standard as well. I'm speaking relatively here, considering very little, if any, political change can be described as truly absolute.

The point about non-first world is relevant because many/most Chinese people lack the privileges that Western whites have, which allow women to comfortably depend on a generous welfare state that pays for their children.

Neither I nor Mort used the word "inherent" btw.

 

[Dak]

So until leftists successfully extirpate cultural norms regarding gender, they cannot be considered to be fighting for what they perceive as gender equality? By that standard no one cares about gender equality. The right-wing doesn't care about immigration nor libertarians about minimal government by that standard as well. I'm speaking relatively here, considering very little, if any, political change can be described as truly absolute.

The point about non-first world is relevant because many/most Chinese people lack the privileges that Western whites have, which allow women to comfortably depend on a generous welfare state that pays for their children.

Neither I nor Mort used the word "inherent" btw.

I'd like all these instances of libertarian totalitarian countries (or even non-totalitarian countries) where they were able to completely implement whatever policies they liked. See Japan for immigration. If after 40+ years of total policy/education control, gender equality is the same or worse culturally, there's no empirical evidence in support of claims of being pro gender equality.

 

[CiG]

I'd probably rather be killed than be a slave tbh. Maybe if I had a nice master that patted me on the head when I did my job I'd make an exception.

Depends on the specific method of execution and the specific slave industry.

Black American slaves actually came out on the other end of slavery relatively okay compared with many other slave trades.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'd like all these instances of libertarian totalitarian countries (or even non-totalitarian countries) where they were able to completely implement whatever policies they liked. See Japan for immigration. If after 40+ years of total policy/education control, gender equality is the same or worse culturally, there's no empirical evidence in support of claims of being pro gender equality.

China's gender gap has been falling since communism ended, not risen.

Depends on the specific method of execution and the specific slave industry.

Black American slaves actually came out on the other end of slavery relatively okay compared with many other slave trades.

TechBarb's grandparents came out of the Armenian genocide relatively okay. So did George Soros out of the Holocaust.

 

[rms]

Black American slaves actually came out on the other end of slavery relatively okay compared with many other slave trades.

christ man

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

TechBarb's grandparents came out of the Armenian genocide relatively okay. So did George Soros out of the Holocaust.

My oldest grandparent was born in the 1930's, you moron. And again, the ottomans never stepped foot in Eastern Armenia.

But one of my great-grandfathers had his wife and 4 of his children murdered in front of him by the turks

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

christ man

wtf, he's actually on point there. If he's talking about slavery in the US at least.

 

[Dak]

China's gender gap has been falling since communism ended, not risen.

Because they have been economically liberalizing for the past 38 years.

 

[CiG]

TechBarb's grandparents came out of the Armenian genocide relatively okay. So did George Soros out of the Holocaust.

George Soros only did well because he knew personally a high ranking Nazi who helped him pretend to be a non-Jew. Without that anomalous friendship, he'd probably be dead.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

lets be real, a lot of good came to the jews because of the holocaust. You think they would be where theyre at today if not for the nazis?

 

[CiG]

You mean, due to the victim status?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Because they have been economically liberalizing for the past 38 years.

I meant growing, not falling.

wtf, he's actually on point there. If he's talking about slavery in the US at least.

lets be real, a lot of good came to the jews because of the holocaust. You think they would be where theyre at today if not for the nazis?

You're lucky the Turks killed some of your family. You'd be a goat farmer in a desert somewhere if not for them.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

desert? Cacucasus = desert? How stupid are you? Seriously.