The News Thread

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Disproportionate levels of black violence long predates hip hop brah.

cmon now man, he knowz dem southern boiz ... from Flint, Michigan

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Our country isnt even anywhere near the top of the list when it comes to murder rates. We barely crack the top 100. Our prison system is broken because of retarded politicians like Bill Clinton.

and yeah, three posts in a row instead of editing them all into one and having a few of you faggots here cry about it.

Pretty sure we are at the top of the list when you look only at fully modern nations. Obviously, there are other relevant details, however; a country like Germany sees its murder rate vary from maybe 0.5 to 2 murders per 100k depending on the area, while America varies more like 0.5 to 100 murders per 100k. Our country permits the existence of ghettos and "local rule" in a way that most countries either try to avoid (e.g. German Turks being well-integrated into their nation) or do not have to deal with (e.g. Sweden still being mostly monoethnic despite early signs of ghettoization from incoming Somalis).

 

[rms]

oh yeah bro, almost certainly. A basement dwelling 30+ year old who's never left his parents big nice beachtown home and thinks people murder pizza delivery guys for $20 knows this from experience, amirite?

just reminding you that you didn't believe delivery boys didnt get murdered for pennies on the dollar

WHERE YOU BOLDED MURDER NUMEROUS TIMES

you can at least admit you're a moron who began arguing against something no one said

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Pretty sure we are at the top of the list when you look only at fully modern nations. Obviously, there are other relevant details, however; a country like Germany sees its murder rate vary from maybe 0.5 to 2 murders per 100k depending on the area, while America varies more like 0.5 to 100 murders per 100k. Our country permits the existence of ghettos and "local rule" in a way that most countries either try to avoid (e.g. German Turks being well-integrated into their nation) or do not have to deal with (e.g. Sweden still being mostly monoethnic despite early signs of ghettoization from incoming Somalis).

depends on what you consider a modern(or more correctly developed, like you said in your first post) nation? Russia or even Brazil murder rates for example are FAR higher than ours. But if were comparing it mostly to the wealthy European nations then sure, but you cant even legally carry a knife in some of those countries. And in some of the asian countries(China, N Korea etc) the government is more likely to kill you before anyone else does because of the way their laws are setup. And i doubt well ever really know their true numbers anyway. And regardless, i rather live here where i can defend myself with my "god given" rights rather than live in tyranny.

And anyway, back on the main topic .... our prison system isn't fucked up because we put killers in jail, its fucked up because of retarded politicians who have flooded them with people who shouldn't be there. Someone selling dope definitely deserves to be locked up, but some doper who shoots heroin or smokes crack shouldn't be in jail for 25+ years just because he ran into bill clintons three strikes law. But yeah, our prison system is far from perfect.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

depends on what you consider a modern(or more correctly developed, like you said in your first post) nation? Russia or even Brazil murder rates for example are FAR higher than ours. But if were comparing it mostly to the wealthy European nations then sure, but you cant even legally carry a knife in some of those countries. And in some of the asian countries(China, N Korea etc) the government is more likely to kill you before anyone else does because of the way their laws are setup. And i doubt well ever really know their true numbers anyway. And regardless, i rather live here where i can defend myself with my "god given" rights rather than live in tyranny.

And anyway, back on the main topic .... our prison system isn't fucked up because we put killers in jail, its fucked up because of retarded politicians who have flooded them with people who shouldn't be there. Someone selling dope definitely deserves to be locked up, but some doper who shoots heroin or smokes crack shouldn't be in jail for 25+ years just because he ran into bill clintons three strikes law. But yeah, our prison system is far from perfect.

Russia is a drug-addicted HIV-infected gang-ridden shithole, Brazil is basically the same thing only with warmer weather and with relatively stronger retention of their family/religious institutions. Not sure what legally carrying a knife has to do with anything; there are plenty of American cities and states with murder rates below modern European averages despite readily availability of weapons.

Pretty sure it's like 1% of federal prisoners in prison for simple personal use/possession of drugs. It's a state-by-state issue, and even then it's only a major one in the South afaik. The real issue is that our prisons permit gangs to run the show and dole out their own shitty form of order and punishment, usually in alignment to the typical issues of "disrespect" or whatever.

 

[Einherjar86]

Lol, why am i not surprised with this coming form you? So hip-hop is responsible for most of the violence and murders in the african american community? Not the actual poverty that a good chunk of their their people live in? Not the gang banging and drug dealing lifestyle that has existed for decades before hip hop(or more correctly gangster rap) was around? Where did you learn this stuff? In your little prep schools? I do agree with CIG that a lot of that stuff existed in Africa and also other parts of the world since it wasnt and isnt exclusive to just blacks. And i also agree with you that the reason the crime percentage is so high among african americans has more to do with their living situations/lifestyle in the US than in Africa.

If you agree with me that crime is higher among African Americans due to socioeconomic conditions, then by what logic are you accusing me of attributing black violence to hip hop? Do you see the incongruity here?

This is just a variant on the Noble Savage myth. No basis in any fact, other than maybe the lack of "plantations" in Africa. The highlighted portion is particularly egregious for other reasons though. Economies always demand a labor base, even if it's self-replicating robots. No work done = no economy. That there wasn't a Chamber of Commerce and an African Wealth of Nations doesn't change that.

It does change things, quite dramatically. There were no economies that demanded the scale of production necessary to support the United States in the seventeenth century, much less the nineteenth. I'm not saying no one did any work in continental Africa; I'm saying there was no system predicated on accumulation for accumulation's sake.

I'm not sure how you can say this has no basis in fact. It has nothing to do with the mythology of the noble savage, but rather with the economic infrastructure available to African societies at the time. It's a matter of historical happenstance.

Dixie culture was not homogeneous either. There was a narrow slice of the landed gentry, primarily Anglo-Norman stock, and then the scotch and irish who led quite different lives. White Trash covers this fairly well. The Antebellum South is a semi-mythical place seen through the Cavalier lens.

In terms of its economy and the way it relied on slave labor to sustain itself, it was pretty homogeneous. Sure, there were people descended from many different ethnic groups and belonging to different social classes; none of that changes the fact that they were all part of the same socioeconomic system known as pre-industrial plantation capitalism.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

just reminding you that you didn't believe delivery boys didnt get murdered for pennies on the dollar

he literally said pizza delivery me are killed for $20 you SLOW IN THE HEAD RETARD man, you're truly amazing.And he clearly implied that is something that regularly happens.

you can at least admit you're a moron who began arguing against something no one said

.... you quoted this and responded with ....

People murder pizza delivery guys for $20.

this conversation was about PIZZA DELIVERY GUYS GETTING MURDERED FOR A FEW BUCKS, not robberies you fucking dunce.

thanks for the proof. Was he killed over $20? Is it something that happens regularly like you implied? Please find me that compilation of the pizza boy murders.

.................

Buddy in the.army used to tell me he did that shit all the time. Pretty common fear among delivery drivers

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

If you agree with me that crime is higher among African Americans due to socioeconomic conditions, then by what logic are you accusing me of attributing black violence to hip hop? Do you see the incongruity here?

ummm, because one of your first responses to CIG's question was "because of hip hop", so no i see no incongruity there at all. You basically implied that hip hop is one of the reasons for said socioeconomic conditions(which btw i blame mostly on them and not others)....

A lot of the violence and showboating glorified by hip hop

so yea, i agreed with one part of your post and disagreed with the other. Why would you be having trouble with this?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Not sure what scale of production has to do with anything. Adebayo enslaving Adeyemi to fan him with a palm frond is still just as much slavery as Benjamin enslaving Tyrone to pick cotton. If it's supposed to be illustrative of Southern dependence and incentive towards inter-generational slavery, I've never understood how one reconciles 1) the belief that poverty is intergenerational and leads to dependence on crime for survival and 2) acceptance that intra-African slavery included the slavery of basic thieves and defeated enemy tribes/nations. afaik, their Igbo slaver upper-class had been dominant for at least hundreds of years in their local region, so in practice there was certainly a lower class from which slaves could be dependably picked from, even if it had a little inter-generational rotation.

EDIT: re Ein

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Russia is a drug-addicted HIV-infected gang-ridden shithole, Brazil is basically the same thing only with warmer weather and with relatively stronger retention of their family/religious institutions.

oh ok, got it.

Not sure what legally carrying a knife has to do with anything; there are plenty of American cities and states with murder rates below modern European averages despite readily availability of weapons.

so you fail to see why countries who ban carrying any type of weapons have a lower crime rate than the us?

Pretty sure it's like 1% of federal prisoners in prison for simple personal use/possession of drugs. It's a state-by-state issue, and even then it's only a major one in the South afaik.

pretty sure you dont know what youre talking about. Do you know how many people who are on probation or parole are tossed back into prison for minor crimes like having a bag of dope on them or even testing positive for drugs? That numbers is almost countless brah. You should try asking around.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp
Drug Offenses 45.6%

The real issue is that our prisons permit gangs to run the show and dole out their own shitty form of order and punishment, usually in alignment to the typical issues of "disrespect" or whatever.

Honest question, do actually know anyone who's been to prison? That stuff does happen, but for you to imply more people are in prisons right now because of inside/jailhouse politics rather than violating parole or probation due to drugs then you surely dont now what youre taking about here.

 

[Einherjar86]

ummm, because one of your first responses to CIG's question was "because of hip hop", so no i see no incongruity there at all. You basically implied that hip hop is one of the reasons for said socioeconomic conditions(which btw i blame mostly on them and not others)....

Freed blacks inherited a lot of fucked up shit from their ex-masters. A lot of the violence and showboating glorified by hip hop didn't originate there, but can be traced back to good ol' Dixie: social status based on demonstrations of wealth, patriarchal gender relations, institutional violence... it was all there already.

I'm actually saying that the glorification of violence and presentations of status aren't responsible for the socioeconomic conditions in certain black communities. The presentations of violence and status that we find in hip hop were inherited from the plantation South. The historical treatment of Africans, and African Americans, is the primary cause of their socioeconomic status today.

so yea, i agreed with one part of your post and disagreed with the other. Why would you be having trouble with this?

Not sure what scale of production has to do with anything. Adebayo enslaving Adeyemi to fan him with a palm frond is still just as much slavery as Benjamin enslaving Tyrone to pick cotton. If it's supposed to be illustrative of Southern dependence and incentive towards inter-generational slavery, I've never understood how one reconciles 1) the belief that poverty is intergenerational and leads to dependence on crime for survival and 2) acceptance that intra-African slavery included the slavery of basic thieves and defeated enemy tribes/nations. afaik, their Igbo slaver upper-class had been dominant for at least hundreds of years in their local region, so in practice there was certainly a lower class from which slaves could be dependably picked from, even if it had a little inter-generational rotation.

EDIT: re Ein

Slavery existed in pre-colonial Africa; I'm not disputing that. I'm saying the demand for slaves wasn't predicated on economic demand. The Atlantic slave trade provided a labor base for the demands of production in a rapidly accelerating economy (at that time, England's), which the colonies didn't have the manpower to accommodate. Africans were enslaved for the purposes of the economy. This wasn't the case in pre-colonial Africa, in which slavery had more to do with establishing tribal superiority and victory. There may have been classes, but they weren't economic classes.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

The presentations of violence and status that we find in hip hop were inherited from the plantation South.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

oh ok, got it.


so you fail to see why countries who ban carrying any type of weapons have a lower crime rate than the us?



pretty sure you dont know what youre talking about. Do you know how many people who are on probation or parole are tossed back into prison for minor crimes like having a bag of dope on them or even testing positive for drugs? That numbers is almost countless brah. You should try asking around.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp
Drug Offenses 45.6%


Honest question, do actually know anyone who's been to prison? That stuff does happen, but for you to imply more people are in prisons right now because of inside/jailhouse politics rather than violating parole or probation due to drugs then you surely dont now what youre taking about here.

The white American homicide rate is well in line with the European homicide rate. Guns don't make people commit crime. When the fuck did you suddenly turn into a Democrat defending murder and blaming guns and knives?

"Drug offenses" =/= "simple drug possession". You think feds run stings just picking up random dopers on the streets? Most of them are going to be gang-associated.

Your previous hypothetical was about people serving 25+ years for drug possession. Since when is 25 year probation a thing for simple drug possession? Maybe for a former dealer already on thin ice who later gets caught with a small amount of personal drugs, but that's stupidity on the dealer's part (and in any case you apparently believe dealers deserve prison so you pretty much make no sense).

 

[Einherjar86]

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I'm actually saying that the glorification of violence and presentations of status aren't responsible for the socioeconomic conditions in certain black communities. The presentations of violence and status that we find in hip hop were inherited from the plantation South. The historical treatment of Africans, and African Americans, is the primary cause of their socioeconomic status today.

by the way, "violence and status" in hip hop mainly comes from the west coast and the bang banging way of life and was not originally a part of hip hop and came about way later in the late 80's and has nothing to do with the south. The type of hip hop that originally comes from the south is called "bounce" and has literally nothing to do with whatever it is you're implying. And I dont buy into "their socioeconomic status" bullshit either as everyone faces hardships when they live in poverty, and most of the richest and most successful people i know today are black. What i was agreeing with you on is that people who live in poverty commit more crimes. And the reason a lot(not most, but a lot) of african americans still live in poverty TODAY is because of themselves, not anyone else. I know you've been trained to think society and DA WHITE MAN is holding them down, but i assure you that's not the case. Anyone in this country can get far if they work hard. And the people i grew up around(blacks included) are proof.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Slavery existed in pre-colonial Africa; I'm not disputing that. I'm saying the demand for slaves wasn't predicated on economic demand. The Atlantic slave trade provided a labor base for the demands of production in a rapidly accelerating economy (at that time, England's), which the colonies didn't have the manpower to accommodate. Africans were enslaved for the purposes of the economy. This wasn't the case in pre-colonial Africa, in which slavery had more to do with establishing tribal superiority and victory. There may have been classes, but they weren't economic classes.

Fair enough, I don't disagree with that. I don't think that really explains why one form of slavery would be more harmful than the other, but looking back at the context of the argument I'm not sure if you were trying to make that point.

 

[Einherjar86]

by the way, "violence and status" in hip hop mainly comes from the west coast and the bang banging way of life and was not originally a part of hip hop and came about way later in the late 80's and has nothing to do with the south. The type of hip hop that originally comes from the south is called "bounce" and has literally nothing to do with whatever it is you're implying.

I'm implying that all this has roots that extend way back before hip hop or bounce even existed.

And I dont buy into "their socioeconomic status" bullshit either as everyone faces hardships when they live in poverty, and most of the richest and most successful people i know today are black. What i was agreeing with you on is that people who live in poverty commit more crimes. And the reason a lot(not most, but a lot) of african americans still live in poverty TODAY is because of themselves, not anyone else. I know you've been trained to think society and DA WHITE MAN is holding them down, but i assure you that's not the case.

I assure you, it's both.

I agree that personal responsibility plays a role in social status and success. It has to; but that doesn't mean that history and cultural dynamics play no role.

Anyone in this country can get far if they work hard. And the people i grew up around(blacks included) are proof.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

The white American homicide rate is well in line with the European homicide rate. Guns don't make people commit crime. When the fuck did you suddenly turn into a Democrat defending murder and blaming guns and knives?

defending murders and blaming guns and knives? Saying "guns make people commit crime"? is that what i did? oh man, this is why i prefer not to give and take with you. You're the one crying about the fact that our murder rates are high and when i point out that it has something to do with the fact that in this country WE HAVE THE RIGHT to carry weapons(a right that i even said i enjoy having), you try to twist this up on me? Lol. You dont see how someone who wants to kill you will have a much easier time if he can just shoot you in the head or just stab them? I know common sense and logic often escape you, but in which way is that not true or even political? That' given and takie im willing to live with. Heres a news flash .... criminals carry guns and knives(and always will), but so do regular law abiding citizens and it's on those criminals if they want to test those waters out, and that's what i love about how everything works here. If someone tries to rob you out here(which will 99.9% of the time be with a weapon) you have the right to properly defend yourself, unlike most of those other european countries youre talking about where the criminal will have access to said weapons(like they always do and wil), but the average cizitsen will not. What, you think most of those murders you're crying about are happening via poisoning or strangulation?

"Drug offenses" =/= "simple drug possession". You think feds run stings just picking up random dopers on the streets? Most of them are going to be gang-associated.

Lmao, you think most people are in prison because of fed stings? You need to watch less TV dude. The fact that you dont realize how easy and common it is for cops to roll up on someone on the street and have them booked in less than an hour shows that this isnt something you should be talking about since you clearly have no idea how this works.

Your previous hypothetical was about people serving 25+ years for drug possession. Since when is 25 year probation a thing for simple drug possession?

umm, did i not mention Bill Clinton 3 strikes law? Yea, i did. Also there are a bunch of previous offenders who are serving over 10 plus years just for possession. If i was locked up for twisting your scrawny neck and came out on parole and got busted with some dope a few weeks later, im going to do a few years. And if im gang affilaited, then add a few more to that. But, yeah ... what would you know. PRISON IS FILLED WITH PEOPLE PICKED UP IN GOVERNMENT STINGS

 

[CiG]

If my mother and sister started shit with a male security guard and got kicked out of a store not only would I not retaliate against the guard, I'd mock my mother and sister for being fucking idiots. I don't enable toxic female behaviour, I wouldn't even make a phone complaint against the guard.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

and btw this is about a mile from where i work ....

... surely no one there is "starving or fighting to live"