The News Thread

[Einherjar86]

I've watched the shooting video, and can't understand how people think it incriminates Arbery or makes him look suspicious.

He's running toward the truck, which he's in his rights to do if that's the direction he was already jogging (sorry, ahem, running from an attempted robbery). I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm running, I'm not focused on details about the scenery around me. I wouldn't notice anything abnormal about a truck a ways down the road, and definitely wouldn't notice if its occupants had weapons--even shotguns.

Arbery turns off the road late in the video, maybe when he notices one the assailants brandishing a weapon. He then wraps around the truck and tries to disarm the assailant--maybe because he feared that if he kept running, he'd get shot in the back.

None of this is as obvious or clear-cut as you guys want it to be.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I've watched the shooting video, and can't understand how people think it incriminates Arbery

you must've missed the part of the video where he starts wailing on another person before trying to take/steal their gun from them.

can't understand how it makes him look suspicious.

.................

running from an attempted robbery

dat critical thinking doe. by the way its burglary, not robbery. genius

 

[CiG]

if that's the direction he was already jogging (sorry, ahem, running from an attempted robbery).

So you actually think he was just jogging?

I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm running, I'm not focused on details about the scenery around me. I wouldn't notice anything abnormal about a truck a ways down the road, and definitely wouldn't notice if its occupants had weapons--even shotguns.

I run most mornings and I'd absolutely notice a truck parked in the middle of the road. Maybe you're just so privileged you don't need to notice anything odd in your area.

Arbery turns off the road late in the video, maybe when he notices one the assailants brandishing a weapon. He then wraps around the truck and tries to disarm the assailant--maybe because he feared that if he kept running, he'd get shot in the back.

None of this is as obvious or clear-cut as you guys want it to be.

Two armed guys and he tried to disarm one of them out of fear for his life? This is the most horrendous mental gymnastics ever...

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

So you actually think he was just jogging?

View attachment 24750

nah bro he just went "full sprint mode" right out of the door. He was "trying to get his heart rate up"

to be fair the video is sped up a little but you can tell he started "jogging" the second he stepped out.

Maybe you're just so privileged you don't need to notice anything odd in your area.

'tis the life of gated community armchair intellectuals. They cant help but throw their "expertise" into anything and everything they have no experience in or knowledge of.

Two armed guys and he tried to disarm one of them

very quick way to get your hear rate down ... to zilch.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I've watched the shooting video, and can't understand how people think it incriminates Arbery or makes him look suspicious.

He's running toward the truck, which he's in his rights to do if that's the direction he was already jogging (sorry, ahem, running from an attempted robbery). I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm running, I'm not focused on details about the scenery around me. I wouldn't notice anything abnormal about a truck a ways down the road, and definitely wouldn't notice if its occupants had weapons--even shotguns.

Arbery turns off the road late in the video, maybe when he notices one the assailants brandishing a weapon. He then wraps around the truck and tries to disarm the assailant--maybe because he feared that if he kept running, he'd get shot in the back.

None of this is as obvious or clear-cut as you guys want it to be.

It's not a matter of debate anymore that Arbery was spotted entering the home under construction, leaving it after being spotted by a neighbor on a phone, and then followed by multiple neighbors. This wasn't "random guy jogging followed for also being black", this was "specific guy running from a home he illegally entered and possibly stole from".

With that established, we can then look to the security camera footage across the street, which shows Arbery running down Satilla Drive, past the home and truck of the McMichaels. Within less than 1 minute of Arbery passing their truck, they are seen exiting their home, and within two minutes they are driving in pursuit of Arbery down Satilla Drive. While it's plausible that they predicted Arbery's direction and took a sideroad to cut him off, the reports so far imply that both of them continued down that drive, meaning that the McMichaels HAD to drive past Arbery at some point. While there are a number of assumptions one could make to fill in the gaps, most of the assumptions in Arbery's favor have turned out to be false. Additionally, the 911 call by the father just prior to and during the call is available, and gives no indication that they verbally threatened to shoot Arbery.

In sum, the likely order of events is: Arbery entered a house illegally, fled when he realized he was seen, ran past the McMichaels, the McMichaels (and others) called the cops, the McMichaels then passed Arbery, exited their vehicle (the son with a weapon out), Arbery saw this yet continued running in their direction, then decided to attack and attempt to disarm one of them. Little of that indicates he would have been unaware of a guy in front of them with a shotgun, and he was certainly aware when he began to dart back and forth.

 

[CiG]

very quick way to get your hear rate down ... to zilch.

But dude his survival instincts kicked in after he had a flashback of slavery and Jim Crow and he did the only thing he could do; continue running towards two armed men, attack one of them and after he got shot through his hand he didn't stop oh no, instincts kicked in even harder and he started punching the guy and trying to take his weapon off him.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[CiG]

@HamburgerBoy correct me if I'm wrong but either on the phonecall or in one of the videos you can actually hear someone shout "stop" at Ahmaud. Unless I'm misremembering.

 

[Einherjar86]

So you actually think he was just jogging?

You actually think he was out trawling for... what? Two-by-fours?

I don't know what he was doing, but I have no reason to believe he wasn't jogging.

I run most mornings and I'd absolutely notice a truck parked in the middle of the road. Maybe you're just so privileged you don't need to notice anything odd in your area.

Of course, it's privilege. My bad. Keep up the ad homs, you must be learning lessons from TB.

Two armed guys and he tried to disarm one of them out of fear for his life? This is the most horrendous mental gymnastics ever...

If he was afraid of being shot while running away...?

Please stop your personal attacks and indulge me for a moment. Let's assume that he was, in fact, innocent--or even that he was only marginally guilty of maybe being on someone's property illegally:

Let's assume he did see two men with guns on the road ahead of him. Let's assume he has no idea why they're there, but he knows that it's possible they mean him harm. Why do we mandate that he must act what we would call "rationally"? Why do we think rationality would win out in adrenaline-fueled situations? Why is it so hard to believe that, in a few seconds, he calculated his ability to run away and decided--again, in the spur of the moment--that if they meant to kill him, they would. Why then is it so hard to believe that he'd run toward his assailants in hopes of disarming them?

I don't understand why you all find this so implausible. People act all kinds of irrational when they think their lives are in danger.

It's not a matter of debate anymore that Arbery was spotted entering the home under construction, leaving it after being spotted by a neighbor on a phone, and then followed by multiple neighbors. This wasn't "random guy jogging followed for also being black", this was "specific guy running from a home he illegally entered and possibly stole from".

With that established, we can then look to the security camera footage across the street, which shows Arbery running down Satilla Drive, past the home and truck of the McMichaels. Within less than 1 minute of Arbery passing their truck, they are seen exiting their home, and within two minutes they are driving in pursuit of Arbery down Satilla Drive. While it's plausible that they predicted Arbery's direction and took a sideroad to cut him off, the reports so far imply that both of them continued down that drive, meaning that the McMichaels HAD to drive past Arbery at some point. While there are a number of assumptions one could make to fill in the gaps, most of the assumptions in Arbery's favor have turned out to be false. Additionally, the 911 call by the father just prior to and during the call is available, and gives no indication that they verbally threatened to shoot Arbery.

In sum, the likely order of events is: Arbery entered a house illegally, fled when he realized he was seen, ran past the McMichaels, the McMichaels (and others) called the cops, the McMichaels then passed Arbery, exited their vehicle (the son with a weapon out), Arbery saw this yet continued running in their direction, then decided to attack and attempt to disarm one of them. Little of that indicates he would have been unaware of a guy in front of them with a shotgun, and he was certainly aware when he began to dart back and forth.

Even if the material sequence of events occurred as you said, it neither proves that Arbery committed a crime (his lawyers contend he wasn't on the property illegally) nor absolves the assailants of blame.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

You actually think he was out trawling for... what? Two-by-fours?

really? Because 2x4's are the only things you can find at a construction worksite? Especially one that's at someones home? Are we also going to ignore all the other people who had him on surveillance and had numerous "2x4's" missing? again, please take a seat in your armchair

his lawyers contend he wasn't on the property illegally

did the property owners give him permission to be on their property?

horrible mental gymnastics indeed

 

[CiG]

You actually think he was out trawling for... what? Two-by-fours?

This is such a dumb fucking naive comment. Are you being serious?

I don't know what he was doing, but I have no reason to believe he wasn't jogging.

Except that there's no footage of him jogging, just walking slowly into a property and then fleeing it faster than a jog. No reason to believe he was jogging.

Of course, it's privilege. My bad. Keep up the ad homs, you must be learning lessons from TB.

Well if you don't notice things while running it says a lot about the areas in which you run, sorry if that offends you somehow.

If he was afraid of being shot while running away...?

Not only did he make himself an easier and closer target but he also made the armed men feel threatened by attacking them, a situation much more likely to end in death than simply ducking left or right over some fences or through some yards, or just turning around and running the opposite way. Dude it's just stupid as fuck what he did.

Let's assume he did see two men with guns on the road ahead of him. Let's assume he has no idea why they're there, but he knows that it's possible they mean him harm. Why do we mandate that he must act what we would call "rationally"? Why do we think rationality would win out in adrenaline-fueled situations? Why is it so hard to believe that, in a few seconds, he calculated his ability to run away and decided--again, in the spur of the moment--that if they meant to kill him, they would. Why then is it so hard to believe that he'd run toward his assailants in hopes of disarming them?

I don't understand why you all find this so implausible.

It's weird that you have this obsession with not holding black people to a standard of rationality, what's up with that?

The issue here isn't whether he was acting rationally or irrationally, it's that his actions IN YOUR VERSION OF EVENTS seem irrational, if he was just some innocent guy jogging being targeted why did he suddenly turn into a terminator?

In MY VERSION where he's a shady guy that just got caught, I think his reasoning was to do whatever he could to avoid arrest and the risk of violence outweighed the risk of being arrested for him. None of his actions seem rational for a random jogger, but they make sense if he's a dodgy dude doing dodgy shit.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

lmao, it is 100% illegal to trespass inside of a home. His lawyers will try to argue it wasn't a felony (because once determined to be a felony the citizen's arrest defense is rock solid), but it was absolutely still a crime.

It took Arbery about 10 seconds to reach the truck from the point at which the video started, you can see that the son had already exited the truck ~7 seconds before Arbery reached it (possibly earlier), and from the bend in the road there was a presumable maximum time to witness the truck and gun for even several seconds longer. He wasn't blindsided at all and he wasn't wearing earbuds or anything that would presumably distract him. He had sufficient time to dart sideways multiple times before ultimately turning around the truck and assaulting the son; therefore, he had sufficient time to simply run away. Unless he was schizo (and reports do say that Arbery was mentally ill in addition to having a criminal record), it seems reasonable to assume that he was aware of his surroundings, yet decided that attacking a guy with a gun made more sense than running from him, despite the guy with a gun not audibly making verbal threats.

EDIT: irt Ein

 

[Einherjar86]

This is such a dumb fucking naive comment. Are you being serious?

OK, so ad homs continue. Bring it on.

Except that there's no footage of him jogging, just walking slowly into a property and then fleeing it faster than a jog. No reason to believe he was jogging.

You don't ever slow down to a walk while jogging? Aren't you like 250 pounds?

Well if you don't notice things while running it says a lot about the areas in which you run, sorry if that offends you somehow.

It doesn't offend me, but the ad homs detract from argument. They're a placeholder when you're not sharing anything of substance.

Not only did he make himself an easier and closer target but he also made the armed men feel threatened by attacking them, a situation much more likely to end in death than simply ducking left or right over some fences or through some yards, or just turning around and running the opposite way. Dude it's just stupid as fuck what he did.

Agreed. See below.

It's weird that you have this obsession with not holding black people to a standard of rationality, what's up with that?

I'm not holding anyone up to the standard of rationality. I'm saying I wouldn't behave rationally in that situation, and neither would you. And yes, I'm speaking for you. Deal with it.

But nice try to flip it and make me the racist one. You guys are gems.

The issue here isn't whether he was acting rationally or irrationally, it's that his actions IN YOUR VERSION OF EVENTS seem irrational, if he was just some innocent guy jogging being targeted why did he suddenly turn into a terminator?

Disarming =/= deadly.

In MY VERSION where he's a shady guy that just got caught, I think his reasoning was to do whatever he could to avoid arrest and the risk of violence outweighed the risk of being arrested for him. None of his actions seem rational for a random jogger, but they make sense if he's a dodgy dude doing dodgy shit.

And there it is--versions of events. I'm just fascinated by your and others' obsession with making him into this obviously guilty party.

(you never said obviously--I'm borrowing some TB terminology there)

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

This is such a dumb fucking naive comment. Are you being serious?

Are you shocked? I'm not one bit and have been pointing this out for years now. I literally laugh at most of his posts. It's as if hes never stepped foot into the real world.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Disarming =/= deadly.

Lmfao. Officer Aubrey was trying to disarm the big bad white criminals.

A stranger trying to punch you out and take your gun = deadly. And yes, im speaking for you too, deal with it.

 

[CiG]

OK, so ad homs continue. Bring it on.

Stop crying about ad homs, especially when your "tRaWLiNg fOr 2x4's" comment was basically reductio ad absurdum. If you don't know what kind of valuables one might steal from a construction site, maybe you should just drop that entire section of the argument or stop being obtuse.

You don't ever slow down to a walk while jogging? Aren't you like 250 pounds?

More like 220 bruh, and if I slow down while out jogging I don't trespass on a property, flee, and then punch and attempt to disarm a man.

It doesn't offend me, but the ad homs detract from argument. They're a placeholder when you're not sharing anything of substance.

Right you just get assblasted anytime anyone brings up your coddled life and how it results in a severe lack of basic knowledge about the world. This debate has been a perfect example, and after that 2x4 comment you shouldn't be accusing anybody of detracting substance from this subject. Same with that dumb heart rate comment and thinking (like you) he probably doesn't notice his surroundings while out jogging.

You have this idea that we don't know anything about the case, we're all just making assumptions and engaging in narrative bias, yet you've been operating this whole time as if the 'innocent jogger lynched' narrative is true and the basis from which we should frame all new information. All you have is the racial angle and we've picked it apart pretty well and your only responses have been purposeful obtuseness (maybe he didn't see the truck/was he stealing timber hur dur) and appeals to survival instincts based on a history of racism in America.

I'm not holding anyone up to the standard of rationality. I'm saying I wouldn't behave rationally in that situation, and neither would you. And yes, I'm speaking for you. Deal with it.

But nice try to flip it and make me the racist one. You guys are gems.

I never said you were racist, you just bring up the "why do we expect rationality when it's poc" thing a lot. Also you're dead wrong, if I were innocently jogging down a street (which we know from video evidence he wasn't doing anyway) and two dudes told me to stop, that I'm under citizen's arrest and had guns (carrying not brandishing), I wouldn't try to fight them. I'd stop and wait for the police and try to get things cleared up.

If I were a criminal on the run maybe I'd do something really stupid like ya boy did, once you start doing stupid things it often makes less sense to suddenly stop and act right. Honestly I'm thinking at this point the guy had a death wish, his actions were so dumb.

And there it is--versions of events. I'm just fascinated by your and others' obsession with making him into this obviously guilty party.

(you never said obviously--I'm borrowing some TB terminology there)

Trespassing captured by a video camera is pretty fucking obvious buddy. Even more obvious if all that footage going back to October turns out to be him.

But thanks for literally never addressing any of the points I've made here. I just blew your whole rationality angle out of the water and you have nothing.

 

[Einherjar86]

We're just slinging shit back and forth, so I'm done. But allow me to say...

 

[CiG]

No I made actual points and you said retarded shit about timber.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

i knew that lost post from you was going to zip him up for the day. I'm usually the one to do it but you were the lucky one today.

 

[Einherjar86]

Who has the time to keep responding to your bullshit? I don't.

No I made actual points and you said retarded shit about timber.

You made points, but they weren't "actual."

 

[CiG]

You made points, but they weren't "actual."

If they were just out to get this poor innocent black jogger, why was every single bullet fired from close range? One had a shotgun the other had a pistol yet only the shotgun was fired and every time it was fired it was extremely close range?

Almost like they were trying to get him to stop and only started firing once he laid his hands on them. Is this point too vague for you?