Matt
Active Member
Yeah, we really screwed the pooch on that one. Same with Libya. Shouldn't have helped that movement at all.
The News Thread
- Thread starter Jimmy... Dead.
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CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Satanstoenail
My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle
Rumours have started now that the Bataclan was targeted because of pro-Israel events there in the past and that Eagles of Death Metal are also pro-Israel because they played there in July after Roger Waters (who is anti-Israel) told them not to.
SentinelSlain
Suck my joined date.
- Nov 21, 2007
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I don't particularly support Israel but when you see who their enemies are, it sure is tempting. We should have a civilization act that basically just says that we're better than terrorists and not only will never deal with them, but will always see their acts as publicly tarnishing their cause. Ie, if it's obvious some huge attack was done to get us out of some war, that will be the one policy decision that will be impossible. That would fuck the little rats.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Speaking of little rats, I'm so wrapped up in all of these ridiculous examples of campus culture, these people are fucking trash.
Screaming about safe spaces, oh fuck off and go die in a corner somewhere you cunts.
Screaming about safe spaces, oh fuck off and go die in a corner somewhere you cunts.
SentinelSlain
Suck my joined date.
- Nov 21, 2007
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I don't see how anyone can simultaneously be smart enough and rich enough, or just the first one but even more so, to get into Yale and then waste their time being offended by the long dead skeleton of a WASP somewhere underneath their dormitory.
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
rms
Active Member
Interesting that we (western powers) blame ourselves for trying to liberate a country of shitty leadership (tyrannical, abject to human rights), but we do not place blame on the populations for not establishing any leadership or social activism. We acknowledge, as fact, that the Middle East cannot have non-rebel group/shitty leadership and that the status quo is the best it can be.
Dak
mentat
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
It's not our job or responsibility, nor do we even have the right to "liberate" other countries from their governments. It's just an idiotic ideal that we clearly have no idea how to apply. We clearly don't understand the cultures and politics of the countries we invade, so how in the hell are we supposed to know what's best for them?
Dak
mentat
We need a clapping emote.
We don't even know what's best for good ol Murkan cishets.
rms
Active Member
So the culture of the people of the middle east is to dominant other ethnic/religious groups? The eternal exchange of power between Sunni's and Shiites? Let's not act like this so different from European history.
"Rights to liberate" becomes a tricky subject when you place the U.S. as, at the very least, a financial empire in preserving its interests in resources. We've done this in South America, East Asia and the Middle East. Democracy, while it may not be the best system, is better than any current system in the world as well as the undeniable evidence of lowering violence in countries.
Also becomes tricky when you decide what is "genocide" and what isn't. Of course we must understand that the U.S. is the face of "democracy" and "good" globally, and has to maintain that, I think.
"Rights to liberate" becomes a tricky subject when you place the U.S. as, at the very least, a financial empire in preserving its interests in resources. We've done this in South America, East Asia and the Middle East. Democracy, while it may not be the best system, is better than any current system in the world as well as the undeniable evidence of lowering violence in countries.
Also becomes tricky when you decide what is "genocide" and what isn't. Of course we must understand that the U.S. is the face of "democracy" and "good" globally, and has to maintain that, I think.
Dak
mentat
Nonsecular Arabic culture has shown an inability to create strong cultural, political, and economic institutions for hundreds of years now. Whatever the reasons for this are, even including Western meddling, it is in fact an indictment of the culture and the people perpetuating it.
European struggles were very limited and dissimilar on the whole. Maybe the closest parallel would be in the short period after the Protestant Reformation, but this was a short period of high intensity conflict between two relatively high trust/strongly institutioned factions, with mostly clear lines of demarcation geographically.
In contrast, Islamic Arabian culture is low trust, nepotistic, sustained low intensity conflict with no clear borders or institutions. This also extends into North Africa. It does not extend to the Persians, for whatever reason.
European struggles were very limited and dissimilar on the whole. Maybe the closest parallel would be in the short period after the Protestant Reformation, but this was a short period of high intensity conflict between two relatively high trust/strongly institutioned factions, with mostly clear lines of demarcation geographically.
In contrast, Islamic Arabian culture is low trust, nepotistic, sustained low intensity conflict with no clear borders or institutions. This also extends into North Africa. It does not extend to the Persians, for whatever reason.
HamburgerBoy
Active Member
- Sep 16, 2007
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Democracy isn't everything. I'd rather live in Singapore or Thailand than any South American democracy, which are the most violent countries in a world outside of wartime. (Granted, the war on drugs is at least partially to thank for that). Libya was fairly stable and iirc they even had a standard of living higher than a lot of Eastern Europe, and I don't see democracy fixing things there any time soon. I think Sunni vs Shiite conflict was actually fairly low through the 20th century until the Iranian Revolution.
Dak
mentat
rms
Active Member
You're going to have to define what you mean by "strong political/cultural" institutions. I feel like you are excluding the Ottoman Empire and the politically strong countries in the Middle East currently and before the Arab Spring.
Germany is and was divided on religious ethnic groups. England and Ireland. Communist/Non Communist in Eastern Europe (Serbian/Croat/Muslim as well).
I don't know why we are calling any country in South America a democracy.
Dak
mentat
The Ottoman Empire would require a lot more dissection than what could be done here, but basically all of those "strong countries" were run by secular minorities propped up by the west (Libya as an exception).
Ireland is a separate conquered territory. What religious ethnic German groups are you referring to? Slavs aren't a lot better than Arabs, wrong side of the Hajnal line.
rms
Active Member
I don't really know where we are going anymore. You're being too vague about the Ottoman's and I would imagine we all agree ethnic tensions precipitate violence everywhere. Middle East has the most of it currently and Eastern Europe preceded it.
Dak
mentat
No, Diversity Makes Us Stronger.
So what German ethnic groups were you talking about? I'm not going to get into the Ottoman Empire here because you could fill volumes in analysis, but let's just point out the Ottoman empire was headed by Turks, not Arabs, and the Arabs gave them longstanding internal problems.
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