The News Thread

[Krow]

I'm curious to hear more from those of you in the US, on how this Obamacare stuff has affected you/your family coverage, the specifics of your coverage (vs. prior to OC), and $$ increase.

My wife and I have always had separate coverage since our deductibles were never too crazy being individual vs. family plan. Our jobs paid for a good portion of our health plan so it made sense to run separate and take advantage of that. Having the kids on either of our plans was negligible. Now you have to think way more about all this. For me to get on my wife's plan, it would run me $2200 a year vs. keeping with my work which covers my fee. Why would I want to consider doing that vs. stay the course? Because individual deductibles have gone up drastically. It essentially forces me to make a choice - play it safe and get on my wife's plan ($2200/year) so the individual/family deductibles make more sense - or stay on my work and hope nothing major happens to me that would kill me with a crazy deductible.

Our rates have gone up anywhere from 30-45% (and climbing) - and the coverage is worse. The way a lot of these healthcare companies are even further sticking it to us, is a lot of them include up front deductibles now. Everything that happens to you all gets paid toward the overall individual deductible first, before they start to kick in with their co-pays. Complete sham.

So you pay more, the coverage is worse, deductibles are higher... woohoo!

Another thing I got surprised with this year is the doc I have used for forever now, is no longer "in network". I also found that all those CVS minute clinics re no longer in network, joy.

Anyways - this is tip of the iceberg stuff. I like the idea behind the OC (helping those in need get coverage) but the damage it is doing to hard working middle class folks is a devastation still to be realized, my opinion. Hell, I know some people who are now paying another $750/month - that's rent and possibly a mortgage payment depending on where you live. Outrageous.

My insurance is included in my job, mostly because of the inherent hazard of working in the oilfield I guess. It's pretty decent insurance... But as I said earlier my wife gets left out because the $200 per pay to put her on the sub par spousal coverage is just insane. I claimed her on my taxes last year and ate the penalty... I'm not sure how it works but if she doesn't have to file a tax return because she didn't work this year I may leave her off entirely this year.

It's really just better for us to take her to a quick care place or the emergency room if needed. The mandatory penalty is ridiculous and I don't see how it does anyone any good.

 

[MetalAges]

I hear ya man.

 

[Omni]

My insurance plan actually got better after the reform. I pay a slight bit more.

 

[King Richard]

I'm curious to hear more from those of you in the US, on how this Obamacare stuff has affected you/your family coverage, the specifics of your coverage (vs. prior to OC), and $$ increase.

My wife and I have always had separate coverage since our deductibles were never too crazy being individual vs. family plan. Our jobs paid for a good portion of our health plan so it made sense to run separate and take advantage of that. Having the kids on either of our plans was negligible. Now you have to think way more about all this. For me to get on my wife's plan, it would run me $2200 a year vs. keeping with my work which covers my fee. Why would I want to consider doing that vs. stay the course? Because individual deductibles have gone up drastically. It essentially forces me to make a choice - play it safe and get on my wife's plan ($2200/year) so the individual/family deductibles make more sense - or stay on my work and hope nothing major happens to me that would kill me with a crazy deductible.

Our rates have gone up anywhere from 30-45% (and climbing) - and the coverage is worse. The way a lot of these healthcare companies are even further sticking it to us, is a lot of them include up front deductibles now. Everything that happens to you all gets paid toward the overall individual deductible first, before they start to kick in with their co-pays. Complete sham.

So you pay more, the coverage is worse, deductibles are higher... woohoo!

Another thing I got surprised with this year is the doc I have used for forever now, is no longer "in network". I also found that all those CVS minute clinics re no longer in network, joy.

Anyways - this is tip of the iceberg stuff. I like the idea behind the OC (helping those in need get coverage) but the damage it is doing to hard working middle class folks is a devastation still to be realized, my opinion. Hell, I know some people who are now paying another $750/month - that's rent and possibly a mortgage payment depending on where you live. Outrageous.

This is yet another systemic problem in the United States. The reason for the price hikes is because the insurance industry can get away with it. OC was simply a scapegoat for them to run amuck. In my opinion it's borderline criminal the shit the insurance industry is doing. One thing people seem to completely gloss over in their "Fucking Obama" opinions regarding insurance costs is that the government, or in this case Obama, doesn't run the insurance industry. If anything he did them a fucking favor by essentially mandating insurance or be taxed. That did nothing but help their bottom line in a lot of ways. They're mostly miffed because the people signing up through OC are getting what would be considered average to above-average insurance premiums despite their current health status, which I'm sure made their actuaries have a fucking brain aneurysm. Not only that but not as many people are signing up through the exchanges because why? IT'S TOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE. They'd rather just be fined or taxed and continue what they've been doing which is using the E.R. to get aid and then stiffing the hospital because they can't afford to pay it back. That's why United Healthcare is saying it's a "disaster." Because they're losing money. Anytime industry giants lose money it's the end of the world.

Having said all that, I don't believe OC is as good as it was intended to be which is unfortunate, but at least it's an option for people who work for companies that either: a) don't offer insurance as a benefit (which is just fucking sad), or b) can't afford to offer insurance (shame on them, run your company better).

Anyway, back to the main point: This is a systemic problem in the United States (along with other systemic problems) because we're a "capitalistic society" and believe in "free markets" etc etc etc etc etc. It's just dumb. Universal healthcare is the easiest, best, and most justifiable way of ending this problem. It works and we deserve it. Period.

 

[Dak]

Some of us were against Obamacare from the beginning specifically because of the rentseeking nature of act. Universal healthcare doesn't fix the issue, it just shifts the problem onto a different balance sheet. The US has enabled and educated mass quantities of people to make an unending series of poor decisions and expect others to pay for them. Until that stops, the US is going to have problems in every area where such people have access.

 

[King Richard]

Agreed. But only the government has the power and capabilities to fix the situation entirely, which was my premise. We the people have been bearing the burden of these issues for long enough.

 

[Dak]

Agreed. But only the government has the power and capabilities to fix the situation entirely, which was my premise. We the people have been bearing the burden of these issues for long enough.

Power sure. Capability? lol. The last bit makes no sense. Universal healthcare specifically puts the burden on everyone, whereas with Obamacare it's only partially shifted. The problem would be shifted from being spread across multiple private company balance sheets (where the failure immediately shows itself) onto the balance sheet of the US Taxpayer (where inflation and massive deficits can kick the can for an indeterminate amount of time). Total subsidization of shit living - which means the quality and availability of that "free healthcare" is going to be terrible and you will still pay for it anyway. Nothing is free. It seems an impossible task to get that through to people.

 

[King Richard]

You assume too much, that's your problem when it comes to arguing. Assumptions get you nowhere but in trouble.

I never once mentioned anything about the cost of universal healthcare. But that doesn't mean I don't understand it has a cost and it will have to be paid for. I just don't even understand why on earth would you assume I don't realize that someone has to pay for it. Seriously, I know that. I get it. It's an understood fact from my end, ok? I also already understand that we have to pay taxes. Like, there's no way around that. We pay taxes so the government runs on a daily basis. See, I get it. Let's move on from that simple fact, please?

Ok, now that we're at an understanding that citizens pay taxes so the government can do shit, let's get to the heart of the matter.

1) Government healthcare works. Fact. Examples: Medicare, Medicaid, VHA, Tricare, and the Indian Health Service. Those programs cover nearly 1/3 of the United States citizens. ONE-THIRD. That's almost 105 MILLION people already. Obviously, a lot of work would need to be done to extend these offerings to the rest of the population, but the infrastructure is already there, it just needs to be expanded.

2) The quality of government healthcare is not as bad as what you're saying. Besides, it's disengenuous to say that the quality of healthcare provided by the government will be terrible. The government isn't providing the healthcare itself, at least the majority of it; individual practitioners, hospitals, and clinics will continue to provide the actual care. The government is simply doing the administrative work and paying for it. That's all.

3) These programs could easily be afforded if the government stopped blowing money on stupid shit like spending over a trillion dollars on a fighter jet that wasn't even used until the Syrian conflicts began. So please don't give me that bullshit argument about how expensive it would be and how we can't afford it. Even if nothing else changed and they wanted to increase taxes on everyone, I'd still gladly pay it knowing that I'm finally getting something in return for my taxes.

 

[Vilden]

Power sure. Capability? lol. The last bit makes no sense. Universal healthcare specifically puts the burden on everyone, whereas with Obamacare it's only partially shifted. The problem would be shifted from being spread across multiple private company balance sheets (where the failure immediately shows itself) onto the balance sheet of the US Taxpayer (where inflation and massive deficits can kick the can for an indeterminate amount of time). Total subsidization of shit living - which means the quality and availability of that "free healthcare" is going to be terrible and you will still pay for it anyway. Nothing is free. It seems an impossible task to get that through to people.

Without any real insight in how it works in the US, I just want to say that here universal healthcare works very well, it is actually the other way around, like Stockholm which has been very forward with private health clinics, is usally seen as a giant failure with long waiting lines and lots of corruption.

 

[Dak]

You assume too much, that's your problem when it comes to arguing. Assumptions get you nowhere but in trouble.

I never once mentioned anything about the cost of universal healthcare. But that doesn't mean I don't understand it has a cost and it will have to be paid for. I just don't even understand why on earth would you assume I don't realize that someone has to pay for it. Seriously, I know that. I get it. It's an understood fact from my end, ok? I also already understand that we have to pay taxes. Like, there's no way around that. We pay taxes so the government runs on a daily basis. See, I get it. Let's move on from that simple fact, please?

Fair complaint. I wasn't specifically aiming it at you but it's not an assumption to state that most people calling for universal healthcare are using it as a euphemism for free healthcare.

Ok, now that we're at an understanding that citizens pay taxes so the government can do shit, let's get to the heart of the matter.

1) Government healthcare works. Fact. Examples: Medicare, Medicaid, VHA, Tricare, and the Indian Health Service. Those programs cover nearly 1/3 of the United States citizens. ONE-THIRD. That's almost 105 MILLION people already. Obviously, a lot of work would need to be done to extend these offerings to the rest of the population, but the infrastructure is already there, it just needs to be expanded.

The only legitimate example out of that group is Tricare (and they have cut some coverage already, and the new Pentagon budget may further cut it). The VA has been plagued with problems, and Medicare and Medicaid are red ink operations. Tricare also serves one of the healthiest portions of the US population. Not a coincidence. Are we going to have mandatory morning runs and gym subscriptions to go along with the universal healthcare?

2) The quality of government healthcare is not as bad as what you're saying. Besides, it's disengenuous to say that the quality of healthcare provided by the government will be terrible. The government isn't providing the healthcare itself, at least the majority of it; individual practitioners, hospitals, and clinics will continue to provide the actual care. The government is simply doing the administrative work and paying for it. That's all.

If that is where the money comes from, that is who is providing the care. It doesn't matter how skilled the existing personnel is when you can't or won't pay them or provide the necessary materials. Furthermore, inevitable price controls will have long term effects on talent accrual etc.

3) These programs could easily be afforded if the government stopped blowing money on stupid shit like spending over a trillion dollars on a fighter jet that wasn't even used until the Syrian conflicts began. So please don't give me that bullshit argument about how expensive it would be and how we can't afford it. Even if nothing else changed and they wanted to increase taxes on everyone, I'd still gladly pay it knowing that I'm finally getting something in return for my taxes.

Now this is one point I think you already know I partially agree with you on. The US wastes a ton of money on the military. Maybe if we didn't spend money protecting the rest of the west so they can do the cradle to grave thing partially on the US dime, which brings us to:

Without any real insight in how it works in the US, I just want to say that here universal healthcare works very well, it is actually the other way around, like Stockholm which has been very forward with private health clinics, is usally seen as a giant failure with long waiting lines and lots of corruption.

Why have they been "forward" with private health clinics? Because of budgetary problems. Of course, the Swedish are still footing the bill via taxes, so of course rentseekers are moving in. Here is a Swede on Swedish healthcare:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303603904579491971221879580

 

[King Richard]

Fair complaint. I wasn't specifically aiming it at you but it's not an assumption to state that most people calling for universal healthcare are using it as a euphemism for free healthcare.



The only legitimate example out of that group is Tricare (and they have cut some coverage already, and the new Pentagon budget may further cut it). The VA has been plagued with problems, and Medicare and Medicaid are red ink operations. Tricare also serves one of the healthiest portions of the US population. Not a coincidence. Are we going to have mandatory morning runs and gym subscriptions to go along with the universal healthcare?



If that is where the money comes from, that is who is providing the care. It doesn't matter how skilled the existing personnel is when you can't or won't pay them or provide the necessary materials. Furthermore, inevitable price controls will have long term effects on talent accrual etc.




Now this is one point I think you already know I partially agree with you on. The US wastes a ton of money on the military. Maybe if we didn't spend money protecting the rest of the west so they can do the cradle to grave thing partially on the US dime, which brings us to:



Why have they been "forward" with private health clinics? Because of budgetary problems. Of course, the Swedish are still footing the bill via taxes, so of course rentseekers are moving in. Here is a Swede on Swedish healthcare:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303603904579491971221879580

Good response. I said they work, I didn't say that work amazingly. lol.

I dunno about the whole gym membership or mandatory runs. Once I left the Corps I retired from running tbh.

Obviously there would need to be a lot of improvements to solidify and streamline the operations, but you can't deny that it would work. I know you know it would work. The best part is there are so many examples of government healthcare programs around the world now we could learn from their mistakes and issues and make the system great.

 

[Vilden]

Why have they been "forward" with private health clinics? Because of budgetary problems. Of course, the Swedish are still footing the bill via taxes, so of course rentseekers are moving in. Here is a Swede on Swedish healthcare:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303603904579491971221879580

No for ideological reasons. And the little of the article that i could read talked about long wating lines, well as I said, Stockholm is hardly a good example in that area compared to the rest of Sweden.

 

[Dak]

I dunno about the whole gym membership or mandatory runs. Once I left the Corps I retired from running tbh.

Pogue! I've run off and on. Always feel much better when I've been in the middle of a running phase. I'm ramping up my running again right now aamof. Trying to get back up to 3+ miles 3 times a week but with toe shoes. Up to a little over 2 miles. Only constraint is blisters.

Obviously there would need to be a lot of improvements to solidify and streamline the operations, but you can't deny that it would work. I know you know it would work. The best part is there are so many examples of government healthcare programs around the world now we could learn from their mistakes and issues and make the system great.

Why can't a business do this? Why shouldn't healthcare be provided for outside the scope of a bloated bureaucracy? Why can't it be pay as you go? "Insurance" is for things that are uncertainties. Needing healthcare of varying types and in varying degrees, especially later in life, is a certainty. It needs to be approached like that. The reason I can't get some "Catastrophic" health insurance for a reasonable price is because it's all rolled up together with stuff that is a near certainty. If you live healthy and are in the first quarter of your life, getting cancer is unlikely. Otoh, needing an organ transplant or something of that nature between 65-100 is pretty likely regardless of steps taken to protect your health.

As a counter perspective on gov vs private: Look at private space development vs NASA.

No for ideological reasons. And the little of the article that i could read talked about long wating
lines, well as I said, Stockholm is hardly a good example in that area compared to the rest of Sweden.

According to what I have read, Sweden had fiscal issues in the 90s, which prompted a shift in policy. The article attributes the long waits to the universal healthcare access, not specific providers. It further states that Swedes have been purchasing private insurance to skip the lines.

 

[JontRevolting]

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

 

[Onder]

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

I just read some comments under one of his Facebook posts. I think Trump would actually deserve his own thread. Our president is an outrageous dumbass as well so I know what it will feel like America.

 

[JontRevolting]

Everyone thought it was great when he made fun of the retarded journalist and called the Mexicans rapists.

 

[King Richard]

Pogue! I've run off and on. Always feel much better when I've been in the middle of a running phase. I'm ramping up my running again right now aamof. Trying to get back up to 3+ miles 3 times a week but with toe shoes. Up to a little over 2 miles. Only constraint is blisters.

Heh, pogue. I can't run for miles on pavement anymore after being in the infantry. I have chronic knee problems from all of the running/humping. I still play bball as often as possible because it's fun, but I usually stick to exercise that is light impact like mountain biking.

Why can't a business do this? Why shouldn't healthcare be provided for outside the scope of a bloated bureaucracy? Why can't it be pay as you go? "Insurance" is for things that are uncertainties. Needing healthcare of varying types and in varying degrees, especially later in life, is a certainty. It needs to be approached like that. The reason I can't get some "Catastrophic" health insurance for a reasonable price is because it's all rolled up together with stuff that is a near certainty. If you live healthy and are in the first quarter of your life, getting cancer is unlikely. Otoh, needing an organ transplant or something of that nature between 65-100 is pretty likely regardless of steps taken to protect your health.

As a counter perspective on gov vs private: Look at private space development vs NASA.

I don't understand what you're saying. Businesses do do this, they're called insurance companies. And they're the reason we're in this mess. lol

???

Maybe explain it differently cuz you're confusing me man.

And your comment about NASA vs private space development is silly man. NASA is extremely underfunded and hardly anyone in the government seems to give a shit. That doesn't mean private space development is better. A counter to that argument is: private vs gov military. The government seems to do a lot better at that. Just sayin.

 

[JontRevolting]

Our ex prime minister speaking out about Islam. I never liked this guy and it's a bit hard to swallow coming from a right wing Christian but I'm glad the tone is finally becoming more direct rather trying to be all nice to these assholes.
http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...m/news-story/67ed471c3c8f3de48bf12a469343f5bb

 

[rms]

Trump has some hidden goldmines that no one talks about. I partially think this is done on purpose to show how the American media works. While everyone gets upset at his comments about mexicans, women and now islam, and these comments do deserve attention, no one talks about what he said about immigrants, money in politics and now about Israel. He's partially fantastic, but those comments get swept under the rug.

 

[JontRevolting]

Same as our ex prime minister,

Trump has some hidden goldmines that no one talks about. I partially think this is done on purpose to show how the American media works. While everyone gets upset at his comments about mexicans, women and now islam, and these comments do deserve attention, no one talks about what he said about immigrants, money in politics and now about Israel. He's partially fantastic, but those comments get swept under the rug.

Probably does have some great ideas, just not someone you want representing your country on the world stage especially with divisive language that he espouses.