The passing of Pope John Paul, II

[Novembers Paul]

Sorry for being so "un-metal" here. Being born and raised in a Catholic household, and being made to go through the entire communion / CCD / Confirmation as a kid, I have very mixed feelings on religion. As a kid, you are weak minded, and will tend to believe what is instilled into your head, until the day comes, and you question the things you were taught. Not questioning authority just to be a rebel and a jerk as a kid, but honest and serious questions on faith. There is so much about the Catholic religion I disagree with, and any organized religion for that matter. My personal beliefs are not relevant the moment, as that's nothing but a mess and a struggle in my mind, filled with little faith, and hope of something better. This being said, something needs to be said for a man, who had so much faith, that he dedicated his entire life to something he believed in, and to most people, even outside the catholic religion, Pope John Paul was one of the last symbols of decency, and respect in a religion and a time when things are so low. All we hear of is church scandal, and inappropriate behavior from the priests with alter boys. Catholics had one decent thing to look up to, and respect, and now he's gone. The man stood for morality, and good, and with my respect to the man for a life of dedication to nothing more then faith in his God and faith in his fellow man, rest in peace Pope John Paul, II.

 

[Illnath]

I don't understand why people are so sad that he died...they should be happy that he is not in pain anymore. You can't exactly say that his death came as a surprise. He's been incredibly sick for at least 4 years.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

I think they're sad for all the reasons Paul listed above, really. It's not that anyone really wished he'd continue to live in pain or anything.

 

[ScientistOfDarkness]

It is indeed sad to see such an intelligent, respectable, devoted man pass away. To have that kind of dedication to anything is incredible. I was raised in a strict Catholic household myself, also went to Catholic school. My views have been quite different for several years now, but my admiration for the pope has nothing to do with religion. He was a remarkable man, and one other figureheads would do well to take after. The kind of passion he carried until the very end, is something I myself only wish I had. I'm not sad to see him finally pass, his health has been so poor the last few years so I'm relieved he is no longer in the pain. I am sad that such a dignified man's tolerance and passion is dying with him, more leaders should take a hint from his life.

 

[mattcira]

Sorry for being so "un-metal" here. Being born and raised in a Catholic household, and being made to go through the entire communion / CCD / Confirmation as a kid, I have very mixed feelings on religion. As a kid, you are weak minded, and will tend to believe what is instilled into your head, until the day comes, and you question the things you were taught. Not questioning authority just to be a rebel and a jerk as a kid, but honest and serious questions on faith. There is so much about the Catholic religion I disagree with, and any organized religion for that matter. My personal beliefs are not relevant the moment, as that's nothing but a mess and a struggle in my mind, filled with little faith, and hope of something better. This being said, something needs to be said for a man, who had so much faith, that he dedicated his entire life to something he believed in, and to most people, even outside the catholic religion, Pope John Paul was one of the last symbols of decency, and respect in a religion and a time when things are so low. All we hear of is church scandal, and inappropriate behavior from the priests with alter boys. Catholics had one decent thing to look up to, and respect, and now he's gone. The man stood for morality, and good, and with my respect to the man for a life of dedication to nothing more then faith in his God and faith in his fellow man, rest in peace Pope John Paul, II.

From one "Catholic" to another, Thanks Paul, for taking the time to type/say these things.

 

[mattcira]

I don't understand why people are so sad that he died...they should be happy that he is not in pain anymore. You can't exactly say that his death came as a surprise. He's been incredibly sick for at least 4 years.

I think a lot of people are upset about his passing because we have lost a man with such a strong belief system, moral fortitude, belief and faith in mankind... more than the physical being leaving the earth and the mortal world. We will never see a man like him ever again.

 

[Kenneth R.]

much respect in here. it's awesome and applause-worthy of Paul as a metal guy to voice such bold openness about faith as most metal bands tend to deny/condemn. as a fellow Christian, i totally respect that and the rest of these posts. this topic has been posted elsewhere on UM but never so civil a discussion occurred.

may Pope John Paul II rest in peace with the Lord.

 

[dan of bereavement]

no offence to paul or anyone else, but the coolest thing about the pope finally dying is that he died on my b-day!!! \m/

thats metal lol \m/

 

[Novembers Paul]

No offence to me at all! I'm not a very religious man. I have my own beliefs, and I certainly do not partake in weekly service, or in any organized religious functions, other then weddings and funerals. We did however have our daughter baptized Catholic, more for family and such, and i'm sure we'll put her through it for a moral structure until she's old enough to decide for herself.

I struggle with my own beliefs, and question things way to much to have faith right now. I do however have a great deal of respect for people who dedicate themselves to faith. I wish I had that, or at least a little bit of that, and maybe my mind would be more accepting of certain aspects of my life. I respect the Pope. I respect him for what he believed in, and how he had passion for it. He's an icon and a religious leader, and my faith or lack of, has nothng to do with my respect.

I HOPE there's something better for all of us in the end, and this man believed there was with all his heart. Lived a good life, and tried his best to do what was right for people, to be a good role model for people. Not many people can say that have done that in life.

 

[Darth Kur]

Sure, he seemed like a nice enough of a guy. And it's always a plus for a person to be "good" meaning more so to be someone that doesn't go out of their way to fuck others over and generally be a major dick. I just think it's sad that he wasted his life being immersed and partaking in the proliferation of a outdated, non-factual, misguiding fairytale system. You can be a decent person without being indoctrinated by some farcical system of fantastical beliefs. Religions in general cause more harm and grief then good. They encourage fanaticism, closed mindedness and endless stress cause by useless feelings of guilt and ineptitude. Now if he and everyone else for that matter would devote their lives to the furtherance of logic, science and therefore reason then that would truly be a life well spent and admirable. For only through such actions will the betterment of mankind be brought forth.

 

[Illnath]

The church I was going to get baptized in burned the day before....how metal is that

No offence to me at all! I'm not a very religious man. I have my own beliefs, and I certainly do not partake in weekly service, or in any organized religious functions, other then weddings and funerals. We did however have our daughter baptized Catholic, more for family and such, and i'm sure we'll put her through it for a moral structure until she's old enough to decide for herself.

I struggle with my own beliefs, and question things way to much to have faith right now. I do however have a great deal of respect for people who dedicate themselves to faith. I wish I had that, or at least a little bit of that, and maybe my mind would be more accepting of certain aspects of my life. I respect the Pope. I respect him for what he believed in, and how he had passion for it. He's an icon and a religious leader, and my faith or lack of, has nothng to do with my respect.

I HOPE there's something better for all of us in the end, and this man believed there was with all his heart. Lived a good life, and tried his best to do what was right for people, to be a good role model for people. Not many people can say that have done that in life.

 

[BalanceofPower]

Don't mean to offend anybody here, but the pope was the number one leader for the spread of AIDS and STD's in the world. He as well as the vatican are against the use of condoms. It also amazes me that the pope and the vatican are against the use of medicines and practices that can extend the human life beyond that which it is meant to exceed. Yet, the pope used the best medical treatment and drugs to extend his life for as long as possible. Seems a little hypocritical to me. If it wasn't for the vatican and catholic church, we would be far more advanced in science and medicine. Science should be our god, and the advancement toward a better life through the use of science and technology should be our goal for immortality.

 

[Steve]

I have respect for anyone who did something good for the world, and most catholics have done nothing good to me and are hypocrites. While most catholics think occasionally going to church will "save them" and tell people not to do exactly as they do, the pope stayed behind his beliefs and actually made a difference.
Most catholics I see now have no standards for moral decency and use their religion as an excuse when they are wrong, rather than as a reason to do good.

 

[ScientistOfDarkness]

Don't mean to offend anybody here, but the pope was the number one leader for the spread of AIDS and STD's in the world. He as well as the vatican are against the use of condoms. It also amazes me that the pope and the vatican are against the use of medicines and practices that can extend the human life beyond that which it is meant to exceed. Yet, the pope used the best medical treatment and drugs to extend his life for as long as possible. Seems a little hypocritical to me. If it wasn't for the vatican and catholic church, we would be far more advanced in science and medicine. Science should be our god, and the advancement toward a better life through the use of science and technology should be our goal for immortality.

Well I agree on the science aspect. Like I said, my views have changed since being raised in a semi psychotic Catholic household, to a more scientific and I believe, realistic view. I still respected the man on several levels, even if I think Catholicism (and organized religion as a whole) is a crock. I don't give the Catholic church quite as much credit as you, mainly because I believe if not the Catholic church, then it would just be something else sheparding the herd mentality of most of the people in the world. It would indeed be nice to achieve the scientific advances and continue/begin so many studies that are possible, actually possible right this moment, but won't commence due to looming religious figures and ideals, (or our president for one) and the tainted moral "views" of the majority. There are small victories here and there, but overall science is being restricted, and I don't see that changing too much in what time I have left on this planet. It's disheartening, but I try not to let my "radical views" run away with my mind too much. I'd rather live my life with the ideas/knowledge I have now and deal with the BS I take for thinking how I do, and the constant barrage of the overwhelmingly different opinions thrown at me daily.

Getting off the Samantha Soapbox, after running on above about what goes on in my little head, I'm just pointing out I'm open minded enough to know and respect the pope for several things. I'm not one of the down with Christianity, screw everything religious uber METAL! people, but I will comment on and respect the life of an intelligent, devoted man who held on to his beliefs and convictions the way he did. Crossing into that territory, you could say you respect Adolf Hitler in the same way I suppose. To clarify, I can respect his dedication to thinking that his beliefs could bring peace to others, and he devoted his life to that. You know, without gas chambers and stuff. I think I've thought myself numb now.

 

[Novembers Paul]

I can't blame the Pope or any one man, or any religion for that matter for the spread of any disease. How many people follow every word of their religion? No one. This is why we all have free will. People know drugs, smoking and alcohol will desrtoy your body, and it's science that proved that, yet people still choose to use them.

This is also why wars are fought over religion. Everyone thinks theirs is right. Organized religion in general has many flaws, all of them.

It's not about religion to me. It's about respect for a liftime of dedication to his belief.

 

[Dragon_Unearthed]

I've been avoiding this thread, since I am an Athiest, and didnt want to affend anyone, but I see that I am not the only one...to me, if someone wants to believe, hey by all means. What gets me is all the preaching that goes on! Whether or not you are interested, religous people tend to think their beliefs are MY guidelines, and they try to get in my face! This is seriously annoying. I believe that religion is more of afterlife insurance...people are scared to die, and religion is just a comfort of what lies after death. If that works, then I applaud you. But don't come get in my face and preach YOUR beliefs to ME! I am a law abiding citizen, and don't try to tell others how to lead their lives...

 

[requiem]

The Pope, as stated already, was a mammoth obstacle to encouraging Africans to use condoms and other measures of safe sex to stem the tide of HIV and other diseases. He was also a homophobe and quite bizarrely canonised more saints than even existed before his reign.

I can't reconcile the idea that he indirectly caused so much suffering in the name of an invisible man in the sky. Yes, he no doubt had a sublime compassion for individuals, but his philosophical stance on the issues I've mentioned have caused so much pain and death. I feel nothing more than pity for the man who tried to do such good, yet couldn't break the shackles of thousands of years of prejudice.

I think people should look elsewhere in future for figures worthy of admiration and respect. But again, that's just my opinion, and clearly on the scale of world affairs I'm somewhat on the fringe when it comes to this idea.

 

[Novembers Paul]

People will find fault in any person, no matter who they are. There is no perfect person. There are many people in which I disagree with 100%, but I still have respect for their passion.

 

[dan of bereavement]

you still have to admit that it was cool that he died on my birthday!

\m/

 

[mattcira]

Don't mean to offend anybody here, but the pope was the number one leader for the spread of AIDS and STD's in the world. He as well as the vatican are against the use of condoms. It also amazes me that the pope and the vatican are against the use of medicines and practices that can extend the human life beyond that which it is meant to exceed. Yet, the pope used the best medical treatment and drugs to extend his life for as long as possible. Seems a little hypocritical to me. If it wasn't for the vatican and catholic church, we would be far more advanced in science and medicine. Science should be our god, and the advancement toward a better life through the use of science and technology should be our goal for immortality.

Somehow I knew that the ideologs would corrupt this otherwise completely harmless thread.

Science is better than religion because it has a C in it. The "Vatican" and the Pope were/are against contraception because abstinence is the most effective form of "birth control". It's pretty simple, if you want to stop STDs and AIDs, stop having sex.