The passing of Pope John Paul, II

[Illnath]

Somehow I knew that the ideologs would corrupt this otherwise completely harmless thread.

Science is better than religion because it has a C in it. The "Vatican" and the Pope were/are against contraception because abstinence is the most effective form of "birth control". It's pretty simple, if you want to stop STDs and AIDs, stop having sex.

That's never going to happend. You might aswell try to band driving to stop car accidents.

 

[mattcira]

That's never going to happend. You might aswell try to band driving to stop car accidents.

Dude, that's not what I'm sayin'

Just saying that is their position. We don't have to agree with it... Just sayin, they choose not to endorse contraception because abstinence, in their view, is the "more effective" method of birth control. I have found in my experiences that the best birth control is a fake name.

 

[Kenneth R.]

first of all, not all christians are catholic. and not all catholics follow every rule.

secondly, i strongly disagree that science should be our "god" and that we should use it to seek immortality. what a waste. it might be fun for a century or two, but you will reach a point where you'd want to die. the concept of true immortality is not a fun picture in the long run. also, i don't know about you but i certainly won't have my life dictated by equations and formulas.

i do agree that the STD/AIDS thing is a bit of a stupid guideline. i think they should rephrase it: abstain unless you're sure, and if anything does happen, use a condom unless you want kids.

i also think that, as previously stated, religion aside, its not hard to admire a man who dedicated his entire life to a cause and fought for it, even against members of the same organization. he had a strong influence on the fall of communism in europe.

lastly a bit of clarification: real christians don't believe that this is all some game for insurance of life after death. it's about following the examples as shown by Jesus. by no means do i want to force my views on you, you're free to believe whatever you want. however, i feel it necessary to clarify any misconceptions about my beliefs and their true purposes.

 

[smågoth]

I think offcorse its sad that he died, the way I feel sad for all good people that dies. I think the pope was a good pope, but he represents an institution that has been a curse on the world like all conservative and judgemental religions out there. I dont think I have to mention the catholic church history, its filled with force and abuse of power. Even today, they are against women priests, birth control and homosexual liberation. The pope himself were against all these things. With all the personal problems that has caused people. Im not saying he is a bad person or a bad pope, but they represent something that is against liberty of the few, but not of the masses.

 

[Oded]

Septic Flesh! I listened to The Ophidian Wheel a few minutes ago.

Smagoth, since you're Norwegian you must know that stave churches are by far THE coolest thing to have come from Christianity! I remember hearing that one I visited had crumbled to ruins recently.

Not as cool as the Gokstad and Oseby ships, but still bloody cool, those stave churches!

 

[dan of bereavement]

old septic flesh rocked!
mystic places of dawn was the one \m/

 

[GateXII]

Very well said Paul!! I'm also a Catholic & agree with you 100%

 

[requiem]

People will find fault in any person, no matter who they are. There is no perfect person. There are many people in which I disagree with 100%, but I still have respect for their passion.

Of course, but we don't all have state funerals and are lauded internationally as generational 'heroes'.

I fail to see how you can respect someone on this level merely for their passion. Hitler was probably the most passionate of all world leaders, but you wouldn't exactly respect him (or maybe you would?).

I'm not trying to offend christians, but plainly speaking, Pope John Paul was an intelligent man who upheld illogical principles to the extent that much suffering resulted from them.

There are plenty of people in this world who are good and just and deserve our compassion and love from a humane perspective. A man with such influence who instructs in a such an anachronistic fashion is not one of them.

This is the last I'll mention of this topic. And if it does all turn out to be true, I hope I haven't said too much to keep me out of the pearly gates.

 

[Billy Steele]

Requiem, I couldn't have said it better.

 

[Novembers Paul]

Of course, but we don't all have state funerals and are lauded internationally as generational 'heroes'.

I fail to see how you can respect someone on this level merely for their passion. Hitler was probably the most passionate of all world leaders, but you wouldn't exactly respect him (or maybe you would?).

I'm not trying to offend christians, but plainly speaking, Pope John Paul was an intelligent man who upheld illogical principles to the extent that much suffering resulted from them.

There are plenty of people in this world who are good and just and deserve our compassion and love from a humane perspective. A man with such influence who instructs in a such an anachronistic fashion is not one of them.

This is the last I'll mention of this topic. And if it does all turn out to be true, I hope I haven't said too much to keep me out of the pearly gates.

My respect is not just for someone with passion, as you said, Hitler, being one of the most sinister people to walk the earth certainly doesn't qualify, in my mind anyway. The bad sort of outweighs any hope of that. I can say, I might admire his gift of speech, but not what he did with it.

My respect comes from people with passion, who have something that I do not, and want. This man believed so deeply in something, he dedicated his entire life to it. That's a level of commitment I will never have for something built on faith. That to me is respect worthy.

I do not agree with much of the "catholic law" and simply live my life the best that I can, for me and my family. Anyone who has suffered because of this "law" can only blame themselves for being sheep, and not using common sense. When it comes to any organized religion, there are issues that go againt a persons own thoughts, and you question it. There are very few people in this world that follow their religion to the letter. If people chose to follow the "catholic law" so closely, it caused them to suffer in some way, then that person is to blame themselves. That's a problem today, most people are quick to point the finger and not take responsibility for their own actions.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Agreed, Paul. I think some people here have been sort of missing the point about all of this.

 

[mattcira]

Again, I state that somehow I knew the ideologs would corrupt this otherwise harmless thread.

 

[requiem]

Again, I state that somehow I knew the ideologs would corrupt this otherwise harmless thread.

Whatever mate. I didn't realise we couldn't have a genuine discussion in a 'harmless thread'.

 

[Novembers Paul]

I've enjoyed the discusssion very much. I like "smart" debates.

 

[requiem]

Thanks Paul! You know I wasn't trying to be argumentative for the sake of it.