The Plastic Surgery Debate Thread

[CF87]

Plastic surgery is for people who are shallow and have nothing to them and they can waste there money on over paid surgeons.

 

[MetalAges]

FYI

Cyyptal is taking a 3 day nap from the site, and anyone else who wants to get on Dave's case since his ban was lifted can do the same. If you have issues, report it, otherwise, get over your hang up with him and keep on topic.

 

[zoidberg]

thanks for not banning me, but then again i didnt really say anything much did I?

 

[Kudzu]

your argument is BS

What's that? Brilliant Science? I just adore 2 letter arguments. They are just so clever

I had my chest surgery done and that whole entire "issue" has dissappeared. I feel great about my body now

What was the problem? Did you have dicks sticking out of your nipples? It must have been a world of fun at dinner parties.

now I still have a million other insecurities/self doubts but that specific problem is gone now

Then tell me what was the point of getting fixed when you are still a bundle of neuroses.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

What was the problem? Did you have dicks sticking out of your nipples? It must have been a world of fun at dinner parties.

I had gynecomastia (gland and fatty tissue in the chest) from childhood. The enormous amount of muscle in my chest pushed out that tissue and made it look really shitty. I was embarrassed to take my shirt off. It's hard to explain how embarassing it is man, especially to somebody like myself. I had all the gland and fat tissue removed to make my chest look perfect now.

Then tell me what was the point of getting fixed when you are still a bundle of neuroses.

LOL it's still fixed a lot of issues. It didn't fix all issues but no amount of surgeries could fix the insecurities I have and that's ok.

at least I don't have to be self conscious about anything anymore and I can take my shirt off in public proudly so in that regard, it accomplished everything you can reasonably hope for.

I didn't expect for it to make me an ultra confident, ultra secure god with the opposite gender. I did it so I wouldn't have to feel self conscious/ashamed of my body, and the surgery accomplished that perfectly.

 

[CAIRATH]

How much more can you complicate plastic surgery? You don't have work done on you if you are ugly, you do it if you FEEL ugly, and that's purely psychological. Nevermind how much you fix yourself physically, the problem will remain if, with the adittion that you will look like a arsefucked Uruk-Hai from Mordor in a few years.

And why does someone feel ugly? It's because society tells them they are. If you are constantly mocked and made to feel like the way you look makes you inferior to other people then ofcourse you're going to feel ugly and rejected. The problem isn't in your head, the problem is in the way people treat eachother and in the way that the media portrays our society's supposed ideals and standards.

For instance, how many times have you seen, say, a shampoo ad with a picture of a real person on it (male or female)? They are always models with perfectly symmetrical faces with their own bodyweight in make-up and hair products applied combined with liberal use of the Photoshop airbrush tool in post-processing to make sure everything that could be even remotely considered to be an imperfection is removed (example). That is what we see when we look at an ad at the train station, open pretty much any magazine or turn on the TV. Sure it affects some people more than others, but we are all constantly made to feel self-conscious about how we look. Why do you think the woman with the dreamy blue eyes in any given toothpaste commercial has the most unnaturally perfect white teeth? It's because the very purpose of that commercial is to make you feel bad about your own undoubtedly less-than-white teeth and to pressure you into buying their product to quench your fear of being sexually undesirable. And this works, albeit mostly subconsciously. Any person that actually sits and thinks about it will pretty much come to the conclusion that it's entirely ridiculous but by the time the commercial is over you're already being bombarded by the next one so you're not really given the time to realise how stupid it is. Do not underestimate the power of suggestive and subliminal advertising and how easily the human mind can be made to override rational thought by appealing to our most basic emotions (fear, lust, etc.)

This affects everyone in western society to some degree (and hell, it's pretty much the driving force behind the whole advertising business), but again, some are more vulnerable to it than others. If you've already lived your whole life with being slightly odd looking in some form or another, then you've probably been bullied at school and possibly socially rejected in later life. Given all that it's kind of hard to just go "Oh this is all in my head." In the end it is all in your head, but it's our society that put it there in the first place. Saying that you are only ugly if you feel ugly is just ignoring the elephant in the room.

Ofcourse we cannot really fix deeply engrained missteps in our society like this by ourselves, so then all that remains is either put up with it (if you have the mental fortitude to do that, which some people do, and I admire them for that) or you can just give in and address the symptoms rather than the root of the problem by getting whatever deformity you have fixed. You argue that this won't fix your self-esteem issues but what are you basing that on really. Aside from surgical failures, to me it always seems most people who wanted this type of surgery for the reasons I outlined tend to be very happy with the outcome and feel better and more confident about themselves afterward.

If it makes the difference between being made to feel miserable and insecure for the rest of your life or actually turning your life around and making you feel better and more confident then don't the ends justify the means? Regardless of how revolting it is that we live in the kind of shallow society that essentially demands people to adhere to unnaturally high standards of physical appearance for no well established reason.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

^ Overkill.

@ Useless:

Ugliness is obviously not purely psychological. If you really believe that, you're just blind. You can't think yourself into being attractive. Therefore, plastic surgery can make people more attractive, which will cause others to look more favorably upon them, and will in turn make the person feel better about themselves.

Most people need not worry about things like this, but for a select few it can make quite a difference. And that's really all there is to it, so don't bother trying to argue that plastic surgery is some evil modern practice that no one should ever partake in.

FYI

Cyyptal is taking a 3 day nap from the site, and anyone else who wants to get on Dave's case since his ban was lifted can do the same. If you have issues, report it, otherwise, get over your hang up with him and keep on topic.

Huh? What did Cryptal say?

 

[cookiecutter]

Bravo, CAIRATH. One day someone should compile all your posts and make a "Pocket CAIRATH" book from which we can quote from in debates.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

why is cryptal getting banned? I am confused

 

[cookiecutter]

He most likely flamed you and then had his post deleted.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

he said something about a brain transplant but it was obviously a joke and nothing particularly offensive.

what is this politically correct BS on the board?

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

Therefore, plastic surgery can make people more attractive, which will cause others to look more favorably upon them, and will in turn make the person feel better about themselves.

strong social skills >>>>>>>> looks in terms of how people look upon you

I could not shower or shave for a month and still be good friends with 90% of people I meet

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Bravo, CAIRATH. One day someone should compile all your posts and make a "Pocket CAIRATH" book from which we can quote from in debates.

Personally I'd wait for the 'condensed edition' to come out. Otherwise it would take about half an hour on average to sift through all the rhetoric and periphery examples to find the actual argument you want to quote.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

strong social skills >>>>>>>> looks in terms of how people look upon you

Maybe for men (though it obviously takes a good combination of the two), but if you're female you can quite easily get away with 0% social skills as long as you're at least moderately attractive.

 

[CAIRATH]

I don't know why you always respond purely to point out that I write a lot. Every part of that post serves a purpose otherwise I wouldn't have written it. If it really bothers you that much then by all means feel free not to read my posts. But constantly acting like I post pointless things when I actually put some thought into my argument is kind of annoying.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

Maybe for men (though it obviously takes a good combination of the two), but if you're female you can quite easily get away with 0% social skills as long as you're at least moderately attractive.

LOL if you are an attractive female (8+) you can get away with having 0 anything (intelligence, social skills).

It's utter bullshit, this society of ours. Oh hey look, you have a nice face and tits and curvy ass, that must mean you are a goddess and we shall treat you as such

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I don't know why you always respond purely to point out that I write a lot. Every part of that post serves a purpose otherwise I wouldn't have written it. If it really bothers you that much then by all means feel free not to read my posts. But constantly acting like I post pointless things when I actually put some thought into my argument is kind of annoying.

Well, I think that's only the second time I've said anything about it, and both were in response to praise from cookiecutter, but I'll try and keep my mouth shut in the future.

I don't really have a problem with long posts in an argument. My comments were more in reference to the number of 5+ line sentences, metaphors, and extra adjectives you like to use. I think it helps for an argument to be easy to read/understand in addition to being thorough.

 

[zoidberg]

lets all asume caraith is right

 

[CAIRATH]

:shrug:

That is how my writing style developed. It seems fairly lucid to me, but English is not my native language so then again what do I know.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Well, you certainly don't misuse words and phrases, so given the sophistication of your writing style I'd say your English is pretty damn good.

I suppose that's enough critiquing of someone's posts for one day, though (even though I love doing it ).