the pro tools back lash

[digitaldeath]

Strange that the video got taken off btw.. it wasn't professional of them giving a swing at there other mixer the way they did anyway.

Bad PR.

 

[aortizjr]

I definitely agree with a lot of what has been said on here. Especially by Andy and James Murphy. They touched on this topic but as a "bedroom quarterback" I guess I have sympathy for bands that require editing to some degree.

As a "nobody" musician myself I guess I understand how hard it is to be as good as is necessary. Andy mentioned guys having to get off work and label pressure and such. But the bottom line is as metal band, to compete with the pros, you HAVE to sound like the pros. What does it take to be pro? Well if you ask a lot of "pro" guitarists, it is a LOT of practice. Yeah some guys are just insanely naturally talented, but John Petrucci, Jimmy Bruno (jazz guy), Paul Gilbert, Steve Vai, have all quoted in their instructional videos and interviews that they practice 6-10 hours a day!?!?! I took lessons from a jazz player and he gave me a weekly regimen that took at minimum 4 hours to complete, and that was for just basic shit.

With bands I have worked with, including myself, they are working 9-10 hours a day. Some two jobs. Many physically demanding (ie. slightly above minimum wage) or at least very mentally demanding. And they are still broke while trying to have a family and a life. When I did radio interviews I can't count how many bands responded, "I have to go back to work, waiting tables (or washing cars, or doing construction)" when I asked them what they did after their tour.

Metal is a very physically and mentally demanding style. If you are not practicing daily, you loose it quick. Hell I am lucky to get in 1-2 hours of practice a day, really just enough to not get any worse. And I am sure other working players would say the same. Add in label pressure, or starting and album without all the songs being written, and editing is going to be a must.

I have seen some younger folks in college or whatever with crazy talent. Some may bitch that it is a commitment to practice enough and rehearse enough. But try dong that when you have a car payment, rent/mortgage, maybe a kid (accidentally or intentional), paying for rehearsal space, having to come up with money for the band van, rehearsal space, t-shirts, recording, etc. Even if you have a good paying job, it is probably a career, so that will consume your time and energy. Or if you have a shitty job, that consumes time and energy.

Hats off to the bands that are great and can pull it off with all those obstacles. But they are a rare few. The majority barely survive the obstacles, then they have to write and perform metal, some of it good, some bad. So because they aren't up to the physical abilities of their songs, does that mean it shouldn't be captured? And the tools are there to make it sound as good as possible, shouldn't they be used? Would I like some cheese with my "whine" ?

So I guess I have sympathy and do my best to be patient and work with whatever I can get and do my best to put out the best in the time and monetary constraints. Editing sucks, but time is time, and it all pays the same. When a band asks me to make them sound like they performed better, I don't see woes, I see dollar signs

 

[bpcrshooter15]

Apperently, that's what Kreator did with their last album... Or at least that's what we are told....But they have been in the business for for long enough to know what you're saying, so... I don't know...
I'd love to have Colin's input on the mix by the way.

I got it the day it came out (yesterday). Wow does it ! From what I read it was mostly live recorded via 4-track. stuff like vocals and solos got more work done to them.

 

[Charvelguy]

I definitely agree with a lot of what has been said on here. Especially by Andy and James Murphy. They touched on this topic but as a "bedroom quarterback" I guess I have sympathy for bands that require editing to some degree.

As a "nobody" musician myself I guess I understand how hard it is to be as good as is necessary. Andy mentioned guys having to get off work and label pressure and such. But the bottom line is as metal band, to compete with the pros, you HAVE to sound like the pros. What does it take to be pro? Well if you ask a lot of "pro" guitarists, it is a LOT of practice. Yeah some guys are just insanely naturally talented, but John Petrucci, Jimmy Bruno (jazz guy), Paul Gilbert, Steve Vai, have all quoted in their instructional videos and interviews that they practice 6-10 hours a day!?!?! I took lessons from a jazz player and he gave me a weekly regimen that took at minimum 4 hours to complete, and that was for just basic shit.

With bands I have worked with, including myself, they are working 9-10 hours a day. Some two jobs. Many physically demanding (ie. slightly above minimum wage) or at least very mentally demanding. And they are still broke while trying to have a family and a life. When I did radio interviews I can't count how many bands responded, "I have to go back to work, waiting tables (or washing cars, or doing construction)" when I asked them what they did after their tour.

Metal is a very physically and mentally demanding style. If you are not practicing daily, you loose it quick. Hell I am lucky to get in 1-2 hours of practice a day, really just enough to not get any worse. And I am sure other working players would say the same. Add in label pressure, or starting and album without all the songs being written, and editing is going to be a must.

I have seen some younger folks in college or whatever with crazy talent. Some may bitch that it is a commitment to practice enough and rehearse enough. But try dong that when you have a car payment, rent/mortgage, maybe a kid (accidentally or intentional), paying for rehearsal space, having to come up with money for the band van, rehearsal space, t-shirts, recording, etc. Even if you have a good paying job, it is probably a career, so that will consume your time and energy. Or if you have a shitty job, that consumes time and energy.

Hats off to the bands that are great and can pull it off with all those obstacles. But they are a rare few. The majority barely survive the obstacles, then they have to write and perform metal, some of it good, some bad. So because they aren't up to the physical abilities of their songs, does that mean it shouldn't be captured? And the tools are there to make it sound as good as possible, shouldn't they be used? Would I like some cheese with my "whine" ?

So I guess I have sympathy and do my best to be patient and work with whatever I can get and do my best to put out the best in the time and monetary constraints. Editing sucks, but time is time, and it all pays the same. When a band asks me to make them sound like they performed better, I don't see woes, I see dollar signs

good points..

 

[dan weapon]

Muthafuck.

That was a long read. Not much I could add, as various people have given my opinion for me, both at length and in short.

Ultimately for me; if a band has songs that I really like, or is particularly awesome live, then I couldn't care what they've done to make their record. Whereas if they don't tick either of those boxes, at least a tight production makes them more listenable.

However a brilliant/appropriate production combined with great songs is an absolute treat. E.g. First Strike Still Deadly - But there's still bound to be people who think the original recordings sound better...

HORSES FOR FUCKING COURSES.


What people choose to do with it... I don't care. All I know is that protools allows ME to write and record my own music in much more detail, and far more enjoyably than the boss 8 track and tascam 4 track that I had for the 8 years prior to owning PT.

 

["Evil" Aidy]

What people choose to do with it... I don't care. All I know is that protools allows ME to write and record my own music in much more detail, and far more enjoyably than the boss 8 track and tascam 4 track that I had for the 8 years prior to owning PT.

I had (and still have it too) a Tascam Porta-07, 4-track recorder!

 

[Pxz]

Mnemic was other band doing the same talk about replacement and editing . Shame cuz the new album sucks tons of ass , i mean the two first were really good, but the last one is just plain lame. And i can swear those drums are sampled and edited to fuck. Hope somebody can clarify on this .

 

[digitaldeath]

I would've thought that drum replacement on a Mnemic record was a prerequisite?!

 

[ADRSean]

Trivium didn't use any drum samples on Shogun, but they did on Ascendnacy. I know that for a fact.

 

[Jaymz]

Trivium didn't use any drum samples on Shogun.

I know for a fact they did

 

[ahjteam]

well what do you know, the trivium video "magically" dissappeared

And for those who missed the video:

http://metalinjection.net/tv/view/978/trivium-making-of-shogun-episode-2

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/7905552-post58.html

 

[The Unavoidable]

One question, what would Trivium know about their live sound? Since they would always be the ones performing, they would never have any insight as to what it actually sounded like. Or am I missing something?


EDIT: Also, I just remembered that they are playing at a festival I'm going to next week, so I guess I'll check it out for myself!

 

[Harry Hughes]

Just read the whole 12 pages of this thread
This is almost worthy of sticky, some excellent advice in here, I'm definitely bookmarking this thread to read again and again.

 

[drew_drummer]

I seriously harm the cymbals that way... And the kick/toms/snare were pads, but still the hits are heard on the OH.. The guy hits hard, I'll talk with him again.

Does PT has a solution for this? If so, time to switch..

Did you try sidechaining the OH's, using the dry pad hits as a key signal? Essentially, turning down the OH's when those pads are hit.

 

[John_C]

Did you try sidechaining the OH's, using the dry pad hits as a key signal? Essentially, turning down the OH's when those pads are hit.

or sidechain a highpass filter to it, or both

 

[lolzgreg]

@ Trivium. Sounds like an Andy bashing section. Aside from them being cheesy AND shitty, they sound like a bunch of whiney douches. "Dude this fucking, you know this fucking album kick you in the fucking ass in the fucking face, uh I mean in the ass cause I'm fucking, uh DUMB."

I wonder how many hours of editing went into their lastest guitar bass vocal and drum tracks. Probably longer than it would take to build a house. PHALE.

 

[drew_drummer]

Aren't a lot of metal bands akin to Trivium though?

 

[JBroll]

In what sense?

Jeff

 

[drew_drummer]

In the "I'm always right about everything" sense; aka, whiney douches.

Although I've never personally heard a douche whine, merely wheeze.

 

[Bekanor]

"We want to set the trend".




I'm sick from the irony.



This band represents everything that's wrong with NWOAHM bands.