The Religion Thread.

[paradoxile]

Dude that's sick, I find that gross. How does that not hurt people, emotionally and mentally?
It hurts their psyche and their view of sex, and this incest thing is making them think it's ok to have sex with younger children (pedophilia) because of their upbringing from childhood that's how they themselves practice what their parents taught them. It's not safe as you think it is.
In most cases, rape does happen within incest relations, a dad might go to her daughters/sons room and have sex with him/her
then tell him/her "It's ok, everyone does it". Same logic applies to even if it's consentual between the two.

You have sick and twisted mind, sir.
See a psychologist, dude, for the better.

Im just really shocked reading your apologetic responses.

They seem appologetic to you only because you want them to
fact is I never appologized nor do I intend to.

In order to give a truly obejective view over a certain subject, you have to isolate it and view it on it's own...and not stuff that it leads to...it's the same as saying that talking leads to verbal violence and verbal violence leads to physical violence so talking should be banned and we all know how much words can hurt.
and isolating also means isolating it from the views of our current society as it is biased as well.
basicly starting from scratch with the whole concept and actually giving it a fair shot.

Once determined that Rape is wrong I take it out of the equation because If I stick it everywhere that gives a biased analysis which is worth shit.

once determined that Pedophilia is wrong on its own I take it out of the Incest equation...so you cannot bring up either pedophilia or rape as an argument against incest.

In a society where incest is acceptible, the children are brought up with the idea that incest is ok...so it doesn't hurt their view of sex as they are brought up with the different view of sex in the first place, and it doesn't hurt their psyche because they don't feel as they are doing something wrong.
It seems wrong to you because you were brought up in a society with a different view of sex so it seems obscene to you and that's ok...it seems obscene to me too but in order to be objective I have to put my personal views aside.

@unconscious:
I love my parents and my friends too but I don't fuck them either nor do I have the desire to do so.
Off course sex is first and foremost for reproduction...this is it's physical and biological role, no doubt. But sex because of its pleasuring factor is also a way to express love...sexual desire on the other hand may result or lead to love but the key role of sexual desire is again for needs of reproduction just
human horniness is equevalent to animals in heat. I don't have sexual desire for my parents or my friends(well, my male friends) as I don't see them as potential partners for reproduction(consciously or unconsciously)...all is fine so far but what about gay people who lust people of their sex instead of the opposite and people who lust their children or parents or both resulting from love.
can you really say they are wrong only because their desires are different from the majority's desires?...and I repeat again hurting is not a factor here since all is done with mutual consent and is pleasuring for both sides.
I say no, you can't.

as for beastiality...it's very simple...animals cannot give consent and are forced to have sex solely on human needs so that's equivalent to rape.
or simply can call it animal abuse.

You have sick and twisted mind, sir.
See a psychologist, dude, for the better.

and you sir are narrowminded and cannot see beyond your own point of view.

It takes a twisted mind to challange norms of our society and of religion...and yes I was expecting this kind of reaction...

now why would I need a psychologist? because I'm trying to be openminded? challange society? because I think differently?
maybe you are the one who needs a psychologist.

the whole unconvientional sex on my part is just the beginning
what about canibalism, euthenasia, suicide, violence as means of education, polygamy(polyamory), sex before marriage.

these should be analized the same way

 

[Metal head87]

contrary to what you may believe...not all pedophiles are sadists.

Never said that all were, just that many of them are.

a pre pubescent child cannot give consent...that's just what the law says
a child may not understand all that may result from this but a child can give consent exactly as a child can say no. a responsible pedophile parent should understand all that results from sex with his child and should make it pleasurable to the child so it doesn't leave an emotional scar.

A child can say no, but that's just when he doesn't want to do something. Kids don't want to go to the doctor when they are sick either. It doesn't mean a child can understand all that can be affiliated with one specific act.
It is impossible for pedophilia to turn out well. The child does not understand the whole concept of sex. No pre-pubescent child ever will. Even if the adult was gentle (I don't want to go into further detail since this alone is making me want to vomit), the whole idea of what happened to him/her will eventually mess him/her up as he/she grows up.

but even with all that pedophilia is problematic because even if it's allowed and is ok, when is the time when you can actually have sex with a child...because surely a 3 year old cannot give consent(if talk at all) nor enjoy a really big cock in one of his/her small holes...but a 7 year old or a 9 year old can give cosent and is anatomicly capable of having/enjoying sex

Firstly, that is utterly disgusting.
And again, a kid that age cannot give consent to something like sex. They can barely give consent to something really simple for that matter. Children live for the present. All they think about is what something will get them at that exact moment. They never look to what will happen in the future.
Adults act like that too, but if by the time you're an adult, you cannot figure things out for yourself and think ahead, then maybe that person deserves what they get.

though pedophilia is problematic...incest isn't.
we grew up in a society that views incest as wrong and disgusting because of its ban in religion but it's the cases you don't hear about that are interesting...of normal people who have committed incest and everything is ok...a married woman that has sex with her husband and visits her parents on the weekend and has sex with her father as she always has since she was 14.her father never hurt her, her mother knows and the husband is ok with it there's no risk of std's since they keep it all in the family and the sex is just a way to express love and not to make a baby(so conterceptives are probably used or he simply cums outside)...so the risks are just the same
so here I don't really see the problem

As someone here already said, sex is not the only way to express love. I don't even see sex as one of the more effective ways of expressing love. A father is not supposed to have sex with his daughter. That is simply disgusting and perverse. Let him talk to her, discuss her personal feelings and emotions, be there for her when she needs emotional support etc. if he really wants to show his love for her. Saying "brace yourself Mary-Lou since daddy's gonna rock yur wurld in the trailer" followed by sex is not what I would call showing love.

I'm not saying off course that I will ever commit incest because I won't...the ickiness is rooted in me as much as it is rooted in you...same goes for gay sex...so basicly I approve of both but I'm not going to have either...
and yeah I know there are forms of incest that are allowed but why specificly those and not others like why having sex with your aunt is fobidden and sex with you uncle is allowed?
and yeah those royals were dumb...just like nazis(the whole keep the blood pure thing)

At least you're not as disgusting as your post was . And everyone here thinks I'm the sick one
I personally don't approve of homosexuality, incest or pedophilia.

There were different prohibitions regarding men and women in the bible.

you know what...being just a little problematic makes pedophilia wrong altogether...that was a sufficing argument.

Well, any argument against pedophilia basically implies that it is problematic.

I understand the bible gave reasonable explanation for banning homosexuality as a waste of sperm so it's understandable but the whole spem murder thing is so unbelievebly stupid...a sperm is a potential human just like an egg is a potential chicken but vegitarians eat eggs and don't eat chicken. a single cell doesn't have a consciousness...it just has a job so wasting sperm is not murder and not potential murder and not anything of this sort.
not having sex is murder according to this stupid rule because when the sperm cells in your balls don't fullfill their destiny it's like you killed the child you were supposed to have...fuck that! it's absurd

It's not just because of the waste of sperm. Sex is meant as a process for reproduction. So it feels good, so we go after it for the sake of pleasure and not for reproduction, it is still meant as the technique for reproduction. That is why it is wasting sperm. None of them have the potential to create.

The vegetarians that don't eat meat for ethical reasons do not eat eggs either.

Your body is going to keep reproducing sperm whether or not you want it to. If it gets out, it is completely out of your control. You're not blamed if you get a wet dream. It is not manslaughter like you were saying earlier on.

please give me an argument against homosexuality and/or incest that will convince me
and no christian "everyone is a sinner" thing...that's hardly an argument

this open minded shit is pretty cool

These should be enough. Accept it if you want.

But god damn, this is making me look like a bible humping fanatic when I despise all forms of religion.

 

[paradoxile]

Jokes revolving beastiality, bodily functions or combinations of the aforementioned are my territory!

a dog, a priest and a child walk into a bar...
oh and by the way do you have an answer for my why according to the torrah sex(=marriage) with you aunt is forbidden and sex with your uncle is allowed?

 

[paradoxile]

Well, any argument against pedophilia basically implies that it is problematic.

any argument against anything implies on a certain subject that it problematic.
with pedophilia these problems are unsolvable due to a child's immature nature and all that is resulting from it.
we're in agreement about the pedophilia since a few posts back.
I started neutrally with pedophilia and I was convinced.

but the incest thing I'm still not convinced and I really want to be convinced because that would mean our society did the right thing when considered incest wrong.

funny thing is that the torrah doesn't forbid pedophilia but forbids incest and homosexual male sex...
which is currently exactly the opposite of what I approve of.

 

[Metal head87]

a dog, a priest and a child walk into a bar...
oh and by the way do you have an answer for my why according to the torrah sex(=marriage) with you aunt is forbidden and sex with your uncle is allowed?

A man isn't forced to marry the woman. He is allowed to pay to get out of the marriage. A woman cannot do that. Maybe that is why.

I didn't mean that any argument would say that pedophilia is problematic, I meant that the arguments which are used against pedophilia imply that it is problematic.

 

[paradoxile]

A man isn't forced to marry the woman. He is allowed to pay to get out of the marriage. A woman cannot do that. Maybe that is why.

now I remember that paying thing...I learned about it.
This topic raises the question about the lack of equal rights for both sexes in the bible and is widely seen today in some parts of the islamic world.

I didn't mean that any argument would say that pedophilia is problematic, I meant that the arguments which are used against pedophilia imply that it is problematic.

I know...and I agree with you. maybe I should have accented the word "against" in my previous post...
what I said still holds.
any issue in the world is problematic and has arguments against it.
it becomes wrong when the arguments agianst cannot be compensated for and/or the problems rasied within these aren't solvable which is the case in pedophilia

 

[schivmeister]

paradox: if it isn't the Qur'an, Bible, Tanakh/Torah, Vedas, then do YOU believe that there is a form of God or a mighty force that people have failed to portray? Do you believe that there is actually a God, but not the God portrayed by those holy books and scriptures? Is it true to you that God would never want to instil fear upon his creation and demand worship day and night? That He would instead want us to behave morally so as to not get hurt in our own lives, and live life itself instead of doing things in fear of being in hell? And all that have been incorrectly shown to us and the truth kept revealed?

Maybe the holy books and scriptures are indeed not the absolute truth, as in clear crystal transparent truth. Maybe these scriptures do have good intentions, a front-end to the real back-end, because in order to have a moral world, there must be some form of discipline and control. Thus to have this discipline and control, a certain method of that have come in the forms of these holy material.

 

[Blacken the angel]

Ilan, is Adam and Eve living between us in some place in the world?
ummm yes?

 

[paradoxile]

well the way I see it God is the universe(ie all and everything)(and not the creator of the universe) including everything in it...so god is inside everyone and everything.
The universe is a fully functioning system...and the system has rules that cannot be broken becuase that's the way the system works.
like you cannot unmake the laws of gravity for instance...
these rules apply from the micro to the macro in all possible fields
for example: electrons revolve around the atom just like planets revolve around the sun and just like the moon revloves around around earth and so on... the same principal can be put on human relations... a person's sense of individuality make the person the center and all contacts with other people are processed in the brain in comparison to what the person knows and/or believes in so for it's like everyone revolves around you...just like the need for friends to have someone revolve around you, there's a need for a leader to revolve around. that was an example.
now every bolt and screw in the system has it's functionality and it's not in his nature to defy the system's rules as the system's rules apply to him.
and the system itself cannot unmake itself(why would it?) because though whole and perfect still applies to its own perfect rules.
About the will of God...god is system, a whole system which makes god neutral...so his will for the people of Israel to commit genocide against Amalek is just what the people who wrote the bible want god to wish.

Is it true to you that God would never want to instil fear upon his creation and demand worship day and night?

according to what I just said...god has no will, no need and no desire. god is neutral

That He would instead want us to behave morally so as to not get hurt in our own lives, and live life itself instead of doing things in fear of being in hell?

not exactly...since god has no will, he doesn't want that from us either
We are humans and part of the system, as humans we have a consciense, a sense of telling right from wrong...this has a reason and it is within the undefiable law of ballance(every action has a reaction, there's good in every bad and bad in every good etc.)...the consciense is there to ballance out self interest...self interest on its own is destructive because I want everything and I'll do everything to get it including destroying everything in my path...now if every person acted this way we would have destroyed each other a long time ago so the system crashes.
but if everything is all good and everyone agrees with each other you reach a point where no one has any purpose left since everything is so darn good and perfect and the system freezes. so for everything to work as it should there should be some ballance...but not a perfect ballance because a perfect ballance would make everything within the system perfect and you get the freeze situation.
so I would say the best situation is almost a perfect ballance and slightly in favor of the good side(whichever that might be)
Karma in which I believe works according to the same rule of ballance...you get what you give and not because god wants you to be punished if you did something bad but because this is the way the system works and you as a part of the system strive to maintain the rules.
Now about disobeying the will of god(which i said that doesn't exist), since we as part of the system are a part of god and therefore connot defy any of the rules of the system so technically we physically cannot disobey god and we are doing "his will" at any given moment whether we like it or not...because it's in our nature as part of the system.

And all that have been incorrectly shown to us and the truth kept revealed?

According to my belief you as a part of god can tap into the infinite knowledge and ask whatever you like about any place and any time and will recieve an answer but the whole truth being all and everything is not in you capacity nor in your nature as a bolt to know.
theoretically if a bolt becomes equal to the system then
a. the bolt is the system and now the original system is missing a bolt and therefore doesn't work/destroyed
b. the bolt that became the system is now whole so it has a kind of bolt that he used to be...but that bolt will become the system too.
now the system that used to be a bolt is aware of the "rebel bolt" and as it being perfect will prevent from that bolt from becoming a system.
and the punch line is that the original system is the as the system that the bolt became so it would have prevented him from becoming a system in the first place so the whole scenario is one big paradox.
as I said before why would a perfect fully functioning system destroy itself?

so all the truth no, but some of it sure why not.
the truth has another side to it though...
to each person his own truth...every person even if recieves it from the devine source will get a different truth...just as every person is different so is the truth for that person...the purpose of this is to make sure all bolts do their part in the system so to every bolt his own truth/purpose/belief/basicly everything.

it's very complicated as you see and that's not even all.

Maybe the holy books and scriptures are indeed not the absolute truth, as in clear crystal transparent truth[/qoute]
according to what I said about the bolt becoming the system...there is no way to recieve the absolute truth

Maybe these scriptures do have good intentions, a front-end to the real back-end, because in order to have a moral world, there must be some form of discipline and control

The scriptures if indeed true...are personal truths and not absolute.
but most of all the scriptures just like everything have their purpose...whether it is a general code of conduct of the society of the time during which it was written, or a general code of conduct according to people should act or a blunt bullshit theory who's purpose is to be proven wrong
people believing in the scriptures has its purpose, people not believing in the scripture has its purpose...wars, peace, this forum,everything has a purpose in the system.

that's the way I see it

 

[paradoxile]

Ilan, is Adam and Eve living between us in some place in the world?
ummm yes?

I'm currently trying to understand this myself...so I don't quite have an answer for you.
I'll tell you what I know so far.

humanity couldn't have started from one man and one woman in Iraq
it's simply not possible given the fact that even if Adam and Eve multiplied and spread all over the "known world"(Asia,Africa and Europe)...how is it possible that there are humans of different race with different culture found in the Americas and in Australia if those continents weren't discovered yet.

Adam and Eve could have been an alegory for something like the first group of intelligent human beings in Iraq or 2 speciffic people in this group that decided to experiment with sex despite the other people's objections and the knowledge they discovered(the forbidden fruit) is lust.
The story of Adam and Eve as well as the story of Noah and the flood were found also in non hebrew pre bibicle sources in different variations and were basicly folk stories that were altered to glorify the god in which the certain people believed in...there's a version of the flood story with Dagon if I'm not mistaken.

The Native American tribes and Australian Tribes however have no mentioning of neither Adam and Eve nor Noah and Flood...According to this Adam and Eve was strictly a local thing.

According to other beliefs Adam(who was immortal until he ate the forbidden fruit) has reincarnated to Enoch(who was also Immortal) and to Jesus(son of god, adam son of god hmmm?) and has broken the negative Karma from eating the forbidden fruit by self secrifice(being crucified) and as Adam was the first man, that secrifice is considered for the whole humanity(jesus died for your sins) and by breaking the Karma saved humanity(ie being a messiah as promised by god as Jesus was a descendant of the bloodline of King David)

as you see it's hard to determine
but one thing I can tell you for sure
Adam and Eve are among us...and there are more than one of each.
I personally know 3 guys named Adam and 2 girls called Eve(or Eva) so there you go

 

[UnConscious]

humanity couldn't have started from one man and one woman in Iraq
it's simply not possible given the fact that even if Adam and Eve multiplied and spread all over the "known world"(Asia,Africa and Europe)...how is it possible that there are humans of different race with different culture found in the Americas and in Australia if those continents weren't discovered yet.

we don't and cannot know when did adam and eve live. they might have lived in the ages where continents were completely different and possibly close to each other. continents probably seperated after first humans spread into different regions. even if this is not true they could have gone to the Americas by walking the Bering when it froze or something like that.
If we agree that they were homo sapiens, most anthropologists claim that homo sapiens were first seen in Africa and migrated to America and Oceania about 20.000 years ago.
and here is a weird map of human migration according to DNA results:
Image:Map-of-human-migrations.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
About races and different cultures.. There is a single human race today and that is homo sapiens. The other so-called races (whites, blacks etc.) just result from geographical adaptation.
Therefore it is not only possible but also scientifically correct to think that humans have spread from one single region.

 

[paradoxile]

I agree with you completely
but what I don't understand is why Asian people have small penises and Africans have enormous ones...
the adaptation thing is indeed correct but what does the penis size has to do with anything?

oh and Adam and Eve were created according to religion less than 6000 years ago...on the sixth day(yeah like that's really what happened?)
My point here is that homosapians didn't start from one man and one woman nor did the american and australian cultures had any stories of Adam and Eve in their folklore...there was an inferior pre human species which evolved as a group to the homosapians as homosapians will someday evolve into something really cool

 

[paradoxile]

so...
if you are reading my Cannibalism sig...
please comment on it

there's nothing wrong with eating dead people...because they're dead!
same goes for nekrophilia...or combined nekrophilia and cannibalism
which I like to call "having the dead cookie and eating it too"(damn I just love wordplay)
I'll be waiting for your comments after you finnish vomitting/laughing/both

p.s
thanksgiving is all about violating turkeys...do you think it likes having stuffing shoved up its ass?

 

[Blacken the angel]

there was an inferior pre human species which evolved as a group to the homosapians as homosapians will someday evolve into something really cool"

Exactly

Edit: I think that humans will evolve to apes again, rofl.

 

[Blacken the angel]

we don't and cannot know when did adam and eve live. they might have lived in the ages where continents were completely different and possibly close to each other. continents probably seperated after first humans spread into different regions. even if this is not true they could have gone to the Americas by walking the Bering when it froze or something like that.
If we agree that they were homo sapiens, most anthropologists claim that homo sapiens were first seen in Africa and migrated to America and Oceania about 20.000 years ago.
and here is a weird map of human migration according to DNA results:
Image:Map-of-human-migrations.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
About races and different cultures.. There is a single human race today and that is homo sapiens. The other so-called races (whites, blacks etc.) just result from geographical adaptation.
Therefore it is not only possible but also scientifically correct to think that humans have spread from one single region.

I wish I could pos rep you again

 

[paradoxile]

Exactly

I suspect that in the future humans will look like Krang from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

but you know the whole man has evolved from the monkey or the neanderthal is very much in question since we haven't found the missing link yet.
moreover it is said that neanderthals evolved together with the homosapians and pushed away from the homosapians communities and they went to live in caves in the outskirts of society.
It's been also rumoured that very few of them still exist and live in caves...they're highly agressive and attack humans.

 

[Blacken the angel]

You still remeber Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!!

 

[paradoxile]

this is more like it

 

[paradoxile]

You still remeber Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!!

why wouldn't I? I used to watch it throughout my childhood in both hebrew and english.
besides I heard there's a new TMNJ movie coming to cinemas in 2007
not that I'm gonna see it or anything...I'm a bit too old for this type of movies.

 

[Messiakh]

I suspect that in the future humans will look like Krang from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

That guy is freaky