The what's going on in Thrash thread

[redfly]

Allow me to play devils advocate for minute.
They are re writing the book because Nick was still hopeful for the future and although he had many bad dealings with Mustaine he was still trying to keep things relatively cool. This entire time since Nick was in the band his family and friends have been there watching as Dave has screwed him and screwed his family and knowing exactly what this has cost Nick personally. Not to mention hearing Dave bad mouth Nick and tell stories for the last 20 years.
Now that Nick is gone and this last mess with the reunion they are angry and they don't care about protecting any sort of future with Dave.

If I had a friend or family member get burned and slandered and had hardship brought on them for years and years. And then to see that very well off person say how much they loved that person and downplay everything after they were gone. I'd probably talk shit too. and since Nick and Dave are in the public eye and he had a book coming out anyway....

I'm just giving this as one possible legitimate reason of doing this. Not that this is the way it went down. But one of these people has a long long and public reputation of talking shit and screwing people and one of them doesn't lol

I made a couple comments on some of Nicks tribute to Gar videos on his youtube channel. And Nick responded and was very gracious and humble. And very excited about the future....but I'm not biased

 

[Slammed]

I'm not saying Dave is innocent, there is enough videos of Dave around to show he's a dick when he wants to be (or maybe it's involuntary) but I also wouldn't put all my money on one side of the story being the entire truth, especially not when one of the two parties is dead. Megadeth is a business as much as any other band and no knows exactly what went down except those directly involved. Even the partners of those involved wont know every truth, they will know what their partner told them and believe that is the truth.

Look at the stories Dave Lombardo started when he didn't get his way to rejoin Slayer. He was first in the press and he made his case that the band treated him badly, except there was a major part of the story he forgot to mention.

The same thing has happened in thousands of other businesses worldwide. I've have business partners that have tried to screw me out of all sorts of things and many others will be the same. Where money gets involved people become dicks, but airing such problems does no one any good. Dave Lombardo made himself look silly and ensured he'll never repair a rift between him and Slayer. Nick and Dave M over the years have done exactly the same thing. Nice guys or not they made themselves look like dicks because they spread their stuff all over social media for people to take sides because they knew people would take sides.

 

[redfly]

 

[redfly]

I'm not saying Dave is innocent, there is enough videos of Dave around to show he's a dick when he wants to be (or maybe it's involuntary) but I also wouldn't put all my money on one side of the story being the entire truth, especially not when one of the two parties is dead. Megadeth is a business as much as any other band and no knows exactly what went down except those directly involved. Even the partners of those involved wont know every truth, they will know what their partner told them and believe that is the truth.

Look at the stories Dave Lombardo started when he didn't get his way to rejoin Slayer. He was first in the press and he made his case that the band treated him badly, except there was a major part of the story he forgot to mention.

The same thing has happened in thousands of other businesses worldwide. I've have business partners that have tried to screw me out of all sorts of things and many others will be the same. Where money gets involved people become dicks, but airing such problems does no one any good. Dave Lombardo made himself look silly and ensured he'll never repair a rift between him and Slayer. Nick and Dave M over the years have done exactly the same thing. Nice guys or not they made themselves look like dicks because they spread their stuff all over social media for people to take sides because they knew people would take sides.

But it will do people some good. the money goes to his family. What's better than that? And just because there is more than one side and people have different perspectives doesn't mean there is no truth or that one side sees the truth when one doesn't. but like almost everything we have do we really need it? No of course not. The people that want to know will buy it and the people that don't won't and people can make up their own minds. and the universe keeps cooking. It's just human interest, nothing more.

I didn't think Dave Lombardo looked silly at all. He was the only one in Slayer with real musical ability.

 

[Slammed]

The money would still go to his family if they didn't chose to continuously air the dirty laundry, just like the royalties from his songs will. As you say people who don't want to read the dirty laundry stories wont buy the book, but if they stopped pointing out that dirty laundry they would more than likely pick of other readers. I buy a lot of bios and they all air dirty laundry of some sort but they don't all spend so much time talking about it as if it's a main point of the story. There is plenty of other stuff in the life of the guy that could be told rather than constantly bringing up the dirty laundry.

Dave Lombardo might well have talent but he chose to only tell part of the story as to why he didn't rejoin Slayer and that made him look silly. He chose to hit the press with how badly they treated him, how they wouldn't offer him the deal he deserved, what he failed to tell people was that he wasn't entitled to what he was requesting and would have been treated the same in any band. He tried to make out that being a founding member gave him some entitlement it didn't. It doesn't change the fact that he has talent, it doesn't even suggest the rest of the band don't have talent, it does however suggest that his choice of airing dirty laundry was a poor choice because it was proven he wasn't telling the whole story. The whole story didn't even make the rest of the band look better or make them look right but it did explain why things happened.

 

[Slammed]

Damn if they recreate even a little bit of what they had on Independence it might be worth listening too.
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sacred-reich-is-not-opposed-to-making-new-music/

And a bit of gratuitous everything thanks to MW.

 

[redfly]

The money would still go to his family if they didn't chose to continuously air the dirty laundry, just like the royalties from his songs will. As you say people who don't want to read the dirty laundry stories wont buy the book, but if they stopped pointing out that dirty laundry they would more than likely pick of other readers. I buy a lot of bios and they all air dirty laundry of some sort but they don't all spend so much time talking about it as if it's a main point of the story. There is plenty of other stuff in the life of the guy that could be told rather than constantly bringing up the dirty laundry.

Dave Lombardo might well have talent but he chose to only tell part of the story as to why he didn't rejoin Slayer and that made him look silly. He chose to hit the press with how badly they treated him, how they wouldn't offer him the deal he deserved, what he failed to tell people was that he wasn't entitled to what he was requesting and would have been treated the same in any band. He tried to make out that being a founding member gave him some entitlement it didn't. It doesn't change the fact that he has talent, it doesn't even suggest the rest of the band don't have talent, it does however suggest that his choice of airing dirty laundry was a poor choice because it was proven he wasn't telling the whole story. The whole story didn't even make the rest of the band look better or make them look right but it did explain why things happened.

Well I'm sure that other stuff will also be in the book. Did you know it was Nicks dad that came up with the Pink Panther theme?
But anyway everyone has a right to tell their story even if it makes someone else look bad. Like you said you didn't read the little article and the lawyer is saying how Dave is once again late paying royalties, I'm not saying it's true but a lawyer would have to be a fool to say that in print if there was no evidence. It's dirty laundry to us but to them it's their life. Sometimes people act like dicks until they are publicly called out. If it makes things better for nicks family I'm all for it. It will have no bearing on if i buy the next Megadeth.

So you believe one part of the Slayer story but not the other? Dave does deserve it. Some people only like slayer because of Dave. How many bands can say that? He brought life to a lot of mediocre songs.

 

[Slammed]

I don't know how the royalty side of things works in the US but I do think blaming Dave solely is purely naming names to make the story. Megadeth like any band is a business. Dave doesn't pay the bills, Megadeth does. I'm not saying he's not owed royalties, I would have thought such things could be automated to a large degree but even if they aren't there would be layers of business mangers doing all sorts of day to day tasks and payments to other people would be part of that business. Dave may well be the CEO of Megadeth inc. or Megadeth LLC or whatever those multitude of business names are and the buck may rest with him as that CEO but in such a business the royalties for Nick and every other person owed them wouldn't necessarily be signed off by Dave himself. They'd probably also have to come through the record label as well. The lawyer may not be lying or even extending the truth but my guess is there is a lot more to the story than simply saying "Dave wont pay royalties."

I don't believe either side of the Slayer story completely. But Dave Lombardo left the band as business partner, that departure absolved him of his partnership. That meant he no longer that a right to the business side of Slayer only the royalties. 10 years later (or whatever the time frame was) after the band had had considerably more success Dave wanted back in with the same partnership deal he had before leaving, even he agreed to that bit. When the band told him that he could rejoin but not on an equal partnership because of the success they'd had since he left he decided to air out the laundry without telling the full story. Like any band it's a business and must be treated that way, inviting Dave back into the fold in the same capacity he was before would be insane and there is not a business in the world that would agree to such things.

 

[redfly]

You never know, some people just don't trust that to others. Or Dave may still have to physically sign it it. I have no idea. I'm not saying I believe it, but I think it's interesting and I think there are just too many people that says Dave's done them wrong But hey. this leaves Dave open for all sorts of publicity and a follow up book! Maybe..this is really Nicks last gift to Dave!..or maybe Dave is such a long planner that he purposely acts like this just so people will write a book about him. Publicity is business and business is good? LOL

Do you really think Slayer did better without Dave? I have no idea where Slayer was in the 90's but I know where they were when Dave came back. It was a big deal. People were really excited. Then all I heard for a few years was Slayer news. When Dave does a project with someone or does drums for someones album, it's a pretty big deal. he makes it better.
I've never heard Kerry say, oh I've got the proof Dave is full of shit when it comes to the numbers, only that Dave held them "hostage" for the Australian tour. I've heard him kind of skirt around the issue and put it off. And it's short sighted in my opinion there's a lot of people calling them a tribute band now. And those people are mad because Slayer could have almost the original line up but is letting money come between them.
I thought Dave's problem was Kerry's absolute refusal to be fair. I think if Slayer got Dave back the next album would sell more and fans would be happy.

 

[Slammed]

There is too many stories for there not to be some truth in things but at the same time the only ones who ever know the truth are those involved and that doesn't mean they are distributing the truth.

As far as being a business Slayer was more successful after Dave left and that's exactly what the 'partnership' is based on not whether he has more talent or more skill, or even plays drums better. Tom's come out recently saying things need to be sorted before he considers recording another album and part of those things is that the partnership deals have to be looked at. He says that since Jeff died they haven't reviewed the way the business operates. That could mean a lot of things but at the end of the day it's all the same, it makes no difference to he music it's all about the business of Slayer and the money the name makes.

The fans might think it's about music to these people but that's only a small part of it. It's a job and like any job it comes down to money and looking after yourselves for now and for the future and knowingly making bad decisions isn't a good way to run a business. I don't care about the music, the talent or the person, if any one of my business partners left the business 10 years ago then offered to come back into the fold and expected everything to be the same they'd be told what Dave was told. The business has changed, what you left is gone and what you come back to is either bought into or worked back up to.

 

[redfly]

But it also doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth. I say let the chips fall where they may!

Well that's exactly what I mean. Lombardo's name is part of that brand. Kerry doesn't see it or doesn't care because of money. Good for them. I personally am not a materialistic person. I would try and work things out. If Slayer was doing better in those years its most likely based on the songs Dave played on in the past. I don't think a fair road was put forth to him. They just shut him out and put it on Jeff who as you've said dead men can't defend themselves.
It depends. if people have been talking about that x partner of yours for the last decade and constantly said your business was better with them than without and that they would come back to your business if that partner came back, you might think twice.
I don't think fans think it's all about the music. But that's all we have to think about, we're the fans.
And of course slayer will be fine without him, they'll keep on and they'll make money because they have the name. So I don't ever expect them to bring Dave back or admit unfairness.
The business has changed and to me that means fans are more important than ever.Not every band can give half assed albums like Metallica and still have the unwavering love of their fans,

 

[Slammed]

I'm not suggesting there isn't truth to it but common sense says that there is two sides to every fight and the truth lays somewhere between either side. To me Dave's the dick that is easily blamed for everything. Nick may well be due royalties but it will be paid by the record company and the business Dave's just a public name to personalise things.

Lombardo's name is only part of the brand for the time he was in the band. He gets his royalties for anything he created in his time but he has no claim on anything the band does while he's not in the band and he does not have a priority to come back into the fold with a 25% share or whatever he left with. Rejoining the band he should be treated as any new band member would. He could still get all his royalties as a separate payment but he'd be paid a wage as a performer unless he paid to regain his 25% share. It's the only way business can work. Right or wrong Tom and Kerry have proved they don't need Dave to be as successful as they want to be. Like any classic line up I'm sure a reformation would be looked upon favourably by many but from a business stand point Tom and Kerry can hardly be blamed because they want to protect something they've worked 30 years for and someone who's only worked for 15 of them wants an equal share. It would be like owning a car dealership, working for 50 years and coming up to your retirement only to have the guy that quit 30 years ago come back and say he was an equal partner in the 80's and now he wants half of everything you've done for the 30 years he was off discovering himself. Terrible business sense and not the way to survive.

 

[redfly]

Dave is just a public name to personalize things? lol Dave IS the issue in this case lol

Much of what you said,I already said or agreed with. I'm not sure what more there is to say. lol
But as for treated like a hired gun? Like if they just had anyone come in and play? No way.
How can Lombardo's name only be relevant from when he was in the band? I just don't think that's right lol His name is synonymous with the bands. At least in the circles of Thrash and I think he's far more known than that.
You can make up all the analogies you want lol. ( they're not bad ) But it doesn't make it right or fair and I think that's what's at the heart of both those stories.

 

[redfly]

 

[Slammed]

Dave is no doubt some of the issues but Megadeth is still a business and a business that has more than once been reported to be a partnership business with Dave Jr. It could just as easily be an accountant holding Nick's royalties but there is no point going to the media saying "Barney Rubble, Megadeath accountant and friend of Dave Mustaine owes us money" because no one knows who Barney Rubble is. Much easier to report that Dave and Megadeth owe the money because they are the public names that people know. No one expect those involved knows the actual truth everyone else picks a side based on who they think they like more. I choose to think both sides suck but I do know for sure that I'd hit the publicised names of a business if I was having a public fight with them.

Dave's name is and always will be associated with Slayer the band and the music in some part, he wrote with the band and performed with them for many years but as far as a business sense goes he can only be associated with the time he was a partner. The band and the business are two separate entities and he absolved his part of the business partnership when he left. One can't just expect to come back into a partnership when it suits them. He wasn't refused from being in the band he was refused from rejoining the business partnership and therefore earning a percentage of that business and that makes sense. It wasn't like they were refusing to pay him, like any business they had a position open worth $X per year and he wanted $Y per year and that didn't suit the business partners. It's the way any business works.

 

[Slammed]

Haven't watched it so don't know how good the quality is but a full Megadeth concert.

 

[redfly]

Dave is no doubt some of the issues but Megadeth is still a business and a business that has more than once been reported to be a partnership business with Dave Jr. It could just as easily be an accountant holding Nick's royalties but there is no point going to the media saying "Barney Rubble, Megadeath accountant and friend of Dave Mustaine owes us money" because no one knows who Barney Rubble is. Much easier to report that Dave and Megadeth owe the money because they are the public names that people know. No one expect those involved knows the actual truth everyone else picks a side based on who they think they like more. I choose to think both sides suck but I do know for sure that I'd hit the publicised names of a business if I was having a public fight with them.

Dave's name is and always will be associated with Slayer the band and the music in some part, he wrote with the band and performed with them for many years but as far as a business sense goes he can only be associated with the time he was a partner. The band and the business are two separate entities and he absolved his part of the business partnership when he left. One can't just expect to come back into a partnership when it suits them. He wasn't refused from being in the band he was refused from rejoining the business partnership and therefore earning a percentage of that business and that makes sense. It wasn't like they were refusing to pay him, like any business they had a position open worth $X per year and he wanted $Y per year and that didn't suit the business partners. It's the way any business works.

I thought with Lombardo there was something about numbers not adding up. but whatever lol

 

[redfly]

 

[redfly]

Haven't watched it so don't know how good the quality is but a full Megadeth concert.

Gonna check this out when i get back home

 

[Slammed]

I can only go by what I read and it was a percentage thing that Tom referred to. In his words Dave wanted to rejoin on the same percentage he left with. From what Tom was leading too when the stories first came out Slayer was an equal share of 4, then Dave left and 10 years later wanted to come back under the same terms. So if Slayer was worth $1m when he left he had a 25% share of that. Then 10 years later he wanted to rejoin with the same 25% of what the band was worth at that time. According to Tom he was demanding a 25% share of the increase value of the band an increase he was not a part of. As with all stories the truth would lay somewhere between both sides but from a true business sense there aren't many companies in this world that would accept a deal like that.