Thomas Lindberg / Dan Swano melodic growls, any hints?

[Nostalgiaplatz]

I want to become the vocals of my project and be the one man in it. I know a lot of swedish bands do growl like Dan and Thomas, but I don't know their formula for "melodic growls", that's why I'm asking you for your experiences. Please, let me know all ways to avoid damaging my throat, I don't want to endup like Renske of Katatonia/October Tide. Thanks a lot

As for some info, I can growl but I don't have any breathing technique so.. I get a little tired after a while and throat sore but they always sound more like Chris Barnes than anything else...

Any tips, hints, etc will be very very very much appreciated, thanks in advance!

 

[Jeffy]

How are Swano and Lindbergs growls melodic? From all that I've heard of At the Gates and Edge of Sanity they aren't singing a melody.

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

Can you figure the difference between chris barnes and thomas lindberg growls? One is more bassy and the other is more mid-ranged, that's it.

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

I'm bumping this thread cuz I really would like some tips

 

[ProjectedBlack]

I'm a little new myself but my skill has improved a lot since I've started. What I'd reccomend for breathing is just suck in as much air as you can between words/lines. You shouldn't be getting a sore throat either, scream from your stomach and chest, your stomach muscles should get sore and maybe a little pain in your chest. Drink a lot of water when you're practicing too, you might not be able to feel it so much but it really helps. And as for getting tired, just practice a lot and you'll discover your own techniques and build up stamina, you're not gonna be any Thomas Lindberg just starting up, that takes a lot of practice and stamina building.

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

Oh, wow! Thanks man for so much info! Really appreciate it. Could you tell me how I can scream from the stomach? vocal cords are in the throat, not in the stomach. I've read those tips almost everywhere in regards to growling, but how do I go about using the stomach instead of throat? And how do I go about "modeling" the type of growl I want? For example, the 2 singers I mentioned I think are a little "limited", I mean, use always the same type of scream (at least for thomas, who changed its vocal tone across CDs, you can notice that fairly well if you listen to previous at the gates albums and the latest ones as well as the crown, but the scream is always the same) but for example Mikael Arkerfeldt does that type of Angry/Demonic, I think he's more versatile. I would like to explore this as well, so, any tips are very very much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[ProjectedBlack]

Oh, wow! Thanks man for so much info! Really appreciate it. Could you tell me how I can scream from the stomach? vocal cords are in the throat, not in the stomach. I've read those tips almost everywhere in regards to growling, but how do I go about using the stomach instead of throat? And how do I go about "modeling" the type of growl I want? For example, the 2 singers I mentioned I think are a little "limited", I mean, use always the same type of scream (at least for thomas, who changed its vocal tone across CDs, you can notice that fairly well if you listen to previous at the gates albums and the latest ones as well as the crown, but the scream is always the same) but for example Mikael Arkerfeldt does that type of Angry/Demonic, I think he's more versatile. I would like to explore this as well, so, any tips are very very much appreciated. Thanks!

Thomas Lindberg is more versitile then you would think, but he usually just sticks to one style because he's one of the best at what he does. Arkerfeldt does the real deep growling but I havn't heard him do much screaming.

In referance to screaming from the stomach, it's hard to explain it, that's just where you should be getting your energy from when you're singing. Black metals are more from the throat (higher shrieking vocals), basically all I can offer is to just get your singing energy from your stomach when doing death vocals. The rasp and voice modulation (because death vocals are actually a lot more technique then you think, it's not just screaming) should come from your lower chest and stomach. Deeper growls are going to require a little bit of different technique but still fall under the same basic principles, your actual speaking voice may be a factor in what you can do as well. I have a real deep voice and higher pitched screaming is a little more difficult for me.

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

I see. I can't really try these things at home, I will have to try it at my friends. So, for starting, do you recommend me to try putting some songs (of ATG for example) and try to sing over them? I think screaming alone without anything is pointless. Have you ever heard Novembre? Do you know what type of growl he does? I think it's a bit like Swano, Arkerfeldt and Thomas, what can you tell me about? Also, my voice is very strange. If I talk to someone, they tell me I've a strong bassy voice, but over the (micro)phone I get this girlie voice. I'm a weirdo!

 

[gybberisque]

As far as practicing, I have a burned CD of about 10 songs from various bands and the lyrics to each song printed off. Sometimes I just go and sit out in my car and growl through as many songs as I can make. I'm just trying to develop my stamina, and it gives me a variety to try and emulate. If you're really ballsy, through a song with clean vocals in the middle - I can't sing the clean vocals for Dark Tranquillity well at all, though. Try to get as close to the original singer's delivery as possible, and if you have ideas that you think sound better, try them. Try recording yourself (with the music reasonably loud) and then see how you've done. Sometimes you think you're doing a good job and... it doesn't turn out so well on the recording. I haven't really worked much through my own lyrics/vocal delivery yet, but last time I did it sounded very unnatural. I'm guessing as I get more comfortable with a certain delivery, things will sound more commanding. Miscellaneous information: one song from ATG that I like screaming along with is Nausea. I wish I could be more helpful - "practice makes perfect" to some extent.

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

Hey man, thanks for the tips, but I think what you do is not very right. I've always read/heard people saying that you should sing in an erect position, especialy when using diaphragm or trying to augment the amplitude of your vox. If you do it in the car, you may not be exploring your cappabilities in the best way possible or doing it wrong.

Also, what you said about recording is really a truth. When I started clean singing I used to sing on top of a song and generally I would reach the same level of the singer in the song and that way I couldn't spot the errors, then I started to place the song a little less louder and augment the micro's volume, I noticed that I was not as controlled and and tuned as I thought.

Thanks a lot for your tips on the matter, keep them comming!

 

[gybberisque]

I sit upright in the car but yeah, I have heard the same.... it's just that i have a hard time getting the alone time to sing... being at a university and all. thanks for the drum comment by the way.

 

[ProjectedBlack]

Well, some more helpful tips I have for you is to find your own voice, don't try to imitate Lindberg or anybody else but use their styling if you understand what you mean. I used to get a little bit of a girly voice when I started but I've since evolved into a pretty deep growler and screamer (Morbid Angel type growling and I suppose a little bit of old In Flames/Dark Tranquillity screaming). If your voice is cracking during certain stuff just keep practicing, you'll eventually become stronger and learn more voice techniques, be careful though, it's fairly easy to get stuck in a style and it's a lot harder to branch out afterwards when you start refining your talents. I really don't practice over tapes too well so I just warm up on my bands stuff during practice sessions and whatnot.

In terms of good At the Gates songs to practice, well it depends which Lindberg you're trying to imitate, his voice didn't change all that much over the years but it's definately become different. I would practice to Slaughter of the Soul stuff, Suicide Nation is a good song to practice, but stuff like The Red in the Sky is Ours and The Swarm are good to practice over as well. I'd also incorporate some of his stuff from Crowned in Terror while he was with The Crown and the newer stuff he's doing in Nightrage.

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

Gybbeqisque: Thanks! No problem about the drums, if you want some further help/tips on that, private message me! I'm not a master, but what I know I can freely share it with anyone.

ProjectedBlack: Thanks a lot again! What you said I know from a lot of friends who are engaged in singing lessons. They all told me to try to avoid doing singing on my own without knowing, because I might be able to get "locked" to a couple of melodies and records. I don't know if I am, but I seriously have this problem: Whenever I'm trying to improvise, there's only one melody that always comes to mind and that really sucks. As for ATG songs, well, I love Terminal Spirit Disease above all of their songs and The Crown, especially that album is friggin awesome! What you said, leaves me a lot more happy about my voice. I do have a few crackling during singing my tunes, sounds like the songs never are good whenever I record them. As for the type of growl/scream you've gotten, wow...if I reach something similar to that, I will be very happy! DT, IF, ATG, Swano, Opeth are all types of growl/screaming I love and would like to be able to do.

Thank you both! If you know more pratical tips than the ones already stated, feel free to step in and share them

 

[mylovedenied]

Well, I know from my own experience, when I do deep growls my throat vibrates/growls 2 differnt ways. One is a more rounded out throat vibration (almost impossible to describe), and one is a very sharp, brutal growl (comparable to Mikael Akerfeldt's work on Bloodbath). The first one is very easy to do. It can be done very softle, sitting down, whenever you want it. But it sounds like crap. To get the second one, you have to growl a lot louder. You also really have to clench your stomach, and try to use your entire throat, all the way down to your lungs, to growl. Even then, it's pretty hard. It gets a bit easier if you combine the 2 types of growling. Then is sounds sorta like Mikael's work for Opeth. If you pactice enough, you'll get what I mean. It also helps to have a naturally deep voice (which I defenitely do).

I also know how to growl like early Swano, Morbid Angel, or Dismember - but I'll save that for another post.

For high growling/screaming like Amon Amarth (or Dark Tranquility, or Ensiferum, etc), it's pretty easy. Get your voice into a high note - not like a falsetto, but high (like the opening scream of Slayer's Angel of Death) and then distort it. It's a very different growl than the previous 2, so just try and mess around a bit. Try to imagine it in your head how the DT/Amon Amarth singers do it. Then try to emulate that. It shouldnt be a problem even if you have a deep voice (my voice is deeper than most grown men's voices, and I'm only 16).

To sound like Maniac from Mayhem, try to go as loud as you can as loud as you can. Try toind a falsetto really, really loud. At a certain level, your voice should just distort itself. Once you get it, try going a bit quieter, you don't wanna damage your vocal chords.

To sound like Dead from Mayhem, just yell as loud as you can without going high. Don't hold back, just yell as loud as possible. For me, that makes my voice distort in the same way Dead's did. Try adding a "sharp" or "metallic" tone to it, by forcing it a bit through the deeper parts of your throat.

And that just about covers it. Excuse the typos, it's 1:30 AM here, and I've been up since 6:00 AM.

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

I think I got what you said, but I couldn't keep up with the stuff you said about mayhem's vocals. I don't know anything beyond euronymos records (and even those I don't remember much of his voice or growl/screams...I'm not into black metal myself, more into the melodic/swedish death metal). I will try your tips as soon as possible. I haven't managed to find a place yet (time and circunstances have been against me), but I'm liking the ideas... I already attempted a few, at home but neighbours knock on the wall after a while...and my fluctuation is terrible and since I only have a high impedance microphone (those multimedia ones) and have no pop filters, the recording distorts itself and as a result its full of crackling and digital distortion... I hope to put some samples here of what I can do based on your tips...but I doubt it will be any sooner, still if UM brings the search function back I may awake this thread, in case it disappears from the frontpage. Have you guys stuff of yours recorded?

As for what you wrote It is ok man! I'm not very pedantic about errors, english isn't my native language and I'm prone to make all sorts of erroirs even when my sleeping schedules are strict.

Thanks a lot for your opinions and tips!

 

[Faaip De Oiad]

I read through this thread, and it's very helpful, thanks to all of you who contributed. I'm more a clean vocalist with a baritone voice, but our band is covering Demon of the fall by Opeth..................So growls have to come into it. opeth is my favourite band, but i've never looked far into growling, but now i need to. Is there any hints to starting off?

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

Welcome faaip! I'm not in position to give you good recommendations just yet. If you've pratical clean singing experience and if you know how to do it properly, you're not too far from making it right in growls. Fueled by your needs and my willingness to learn how to growl like Lindberg, Swano or Arkerfeldt - as in, being versatile, I decided to record demon of the fall and ask you what you guys think. The mp3 is here (save target as).

Warning: Sloppy guitar work, rushed recording, fuckedup multimedia mic, I learned the song in 5 mins and tracked 2 equal guitars. I didn't do further than that, because my trebley E string is broken and I didn't find it reasonable, as the first verse is quite enough to practise. Be as critic as possible but try to be as constructive as possible, this thread shall be the "official how to growl" thread ehehe. I hope

EDIT: By the way, I just noticed that I skipped the "of autumn" after the "torn...by the arrival..."

 

[Hexer]

I think it sounds pretty much "pressed out".... seems like your whispering more than growling.
I started like that, too, but I dont thinks its a good technic. our bassist does that (just started growling, too) and most of the time you cant even hear him except if his mic is much louder than the other ones. I also bet you'll get "tired" quite fast and maybe get a sour throat.

I'm probalby not of much help here, as I dont know how to describe what I mean, but I'd say you should try to growl "at full volume" (not with full force, as this will probably do damage). the "normal growling" (I'm not talking about the occasional "extreme-scream" here) should not be very hard to do if you do it right (well, maybe thats also a matter of practice).
myself, I pretty much started growling about 4 or 5 years ago (around the same time I started playing guitar an got into metal) and now I can do quite a variety of sounds (low, mid, high, blackmetal-stuff, vader-like, deathmetal-like) and now I have pretty much no problem growling to our songs during band-rehearsals (for about 3 hours most of the time) with minimal effects on my throat (I also growl along to CDs in the car before rehearsals most times)

oh btw: I didnt want to sound arrogant or like "the master of metal-vocals", I'm certainly not!

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

Man, you're very right. My throat is sore since I recorded that, but the only part where I conscioulsy was whispering was in the last sentece of the verse. I did try to pull out the growl from inside, I kind of made force around my stomach as I was told to but it didn't amazed me much. I want to make it right, but if It's not this way, I'm kind of afraid I will need a lot of practice, if I ever am going to be able to do it some other way. Thanks for your tips man, ou seemed humble, 5 years I guess is enough time to get vox into shape

 

[ProjectedBlack]

Alright, here's what I have for you Morningstar:

You were definately doing it wrong but that's fine, you've just started and it sounds like me when I first started. My suggestion to you is to learn to scream your growls first or you're going to tear your throat to shreds. I used to have a major soar throat after experimenting with it when I first started and I'd be all light headed. I started with bad sounding high pitched screaming and worked my way to a deeper and more refined growl. Learning to whisper your stuff helps too, and I mean really whisper, maybe the highest you want to go is speaking volume and just to rumble from down in your chest. You should be able to get it down in a lot less then 5 years, so no worries. Just experiment with a lot of stuff, if you want to you can contact me on AIM and I could show you some stuff, otherwise I wish you the best luck.