UNDERWORLD discussion thread

[ToastedOveries]

My current ranking:

1. V
2. Divine wings
3. Twilight
4. Odyssey = Iconoclast
5. Damnation = Underworld
6. PL
7. SX

I honestly prefer Iconoclast to this new one, It's one dimensional, but it doesn't feel forced like Underworld, it's just a balls out metal album.

 

[Xiphos68]

This album, Live, will slay.
For real, it's gonna be an awesome/epic show for sure.

Nuclear Blast is a bunch of idiots tho...
- where's the making-of videos or interviews (at Mike's studio)
- where's the promo clip (fuck those lazy lyric videos)
- where's the projector or big screen for their shows ??
- where's the fuckin DVD ???

Also sick of all the same questions in the interviews.
"When did you start playing ?"
-Romeo probably thinking: "wtffff not this again ?" everytime

Yes it will.

Concerning NB: Seriously, I was thinking the same thing? There is no music videos or anything? When "Paradise Lost" came out I remember those music videos being a big deal. Because it was one of the few reasons I even heard of Symphony X. They just kept popping up on YouTube all the time. NB should invest in making bonus material for Symphony X.

The DVD won't happen until they have a special concert.

 

[Alien Mantis]

It seems like everyone has different expectations about what they want from this band.
I like power metal, so when they go heavy, I like it. I also like prog stuff, so when they do that, I like it! I also like movie soundtrack music,
so when they do that..... i'm liking that stuff too!
Symphony X does it ALL.
They go heavy, they do proggy stuff, and they do great movie soundtrack stuff too!

So many complainers about Iconoclast, but I love that album.
The guitars are not just "in your face", but they pound sand up your a$$ with force!
That's the way to get the job done! Don't mess around! Romeo comes out like a man on a mission.
So many bands do a cute little 4-minute long song, and MAYBE you'll get a little 15-second guitar noodling in the middle of it.
That $hit is WEAK!
Romeo doesn't do that. He rips your face off with solos that make you want to throw your guitar in the nearest dumpster.
IF that is not the kind of music you like.... I guess you need to MOVE ON.

Katy Perry might be more to your liking. Who knows.

 

[Kenneth R.]

This album is pretty much what I expected from SX.

1. Overture: Why, that was unnecessary. Zzzz
2. Nevermore: Nevermore shall I listen to this song. It's just a riffy chug-fest of unmemorable ideas.
3. Underworld: Okay, the album isn't a total loss. This song is quite good and well-arranged.
4. Without You: On a roll now, finally a break from the pace and the realization that "oh, right!" we need dynamics to emphasize the loud and fast by incorporating soft and slow.
5. Kiss of Fire: Yes, we've finally gotten to the - oh, nevermind, more unmemorable chug-fest.
6. Charon: A slight improvement?
7. To Hell & Back: Ah, here we are. This song's main riff is stolen from the soundtrack to Tron 2. But forgiving that, it's a great song.
8. In My Darkest Hour: Back to the slog, though better constructed than the other ones.
9. Run With The Devil: Pretty classic roots here, along with some of the other tracks, definite channeling of Van Halen and Savatage, and not just in the track title.
10. Swan Song: Fucking horrific. Meandering, lost, without cohesion. This feels half finished at best.
11. Legend: Sounds like SX is saying "yep, we know the lyrics on all the tracks were bad, but you buy it don't ya?!"

That's basically my review. Without You, Underworld, Hell & Back are standouts, the rest can be taken or left, preferably left. At least there's more variety and better mixing here than on Iconoclast, but the mastering is still flat as a board. That said, given the content, it'd be hard to give any dynamic room to this stuff.

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

This album is pretty much what I expected from SX.

1. Overture: Why, that was unnecessary. Zzzz
2. Nevermore: Nevermore shall I listen to this song. It's just a riffy chug-fest of unmemorable ideas.
3. Underworld: Okay, the album isn't a total loss. This song is quite good and well-arranged.
4. Without You: On a roll now, finally a break from the pace and the realization that "oh, right!" we need dynamics to emphasize the loud and fast by incorporating soft and slow.
5. Kiss of Fire: Yes, we've finally gotten to the - oh, nevermind, more unmemorable chug-fest.
6. Charon: A slight improvement?
7. To Hell & Back: Ah, here we are. This song's main riff is stolen from the soundtrack to Tron 2. But forgiving that, it's a great song.
8. In My Darkest Hour: Back to the slog, though better constructed than the other ones.
9. Run With The Devil: Pretty classic roots here, along with some of the other tracks, definite channeling of Van Halen and Savatage, and not just in the track title.
10. Swan Song: Fucking horrific. Meandering, lost, without cohesion. This feels half finished at best.
11. Legend: Sounds like SX is saying "yep, we know the lyrics on all the tracks were bad, but you buy it don't ya?!"

That's basically my review. Without You, Underworld, Hell & Back are standouts, the rest can be taken or left, preferably left. At least there's more variety and better mixing here than on Iconoclast, but the mastering is still flat as a board. That said, given the content, it'd be hard to give any dynamic room to this stuff.

The flatness of the mixing really has been an issue for multiple albums now.
To me, even the softer parts sound loud and over-produced. I don't like the mixing at all.

As for the guy above Ken... No, SX doesn't do everything. They don't use dynamics, they don't utilize atmosphere, and they don't convey a feeling that the songs are being played by humans. You could almost swap the peoples' playing out with machines/synths/MIDI and you'd know no different (aside from vocals [which suffer from their own issues]).

 

[UlathX]

Hey all, first time poster here. Am I the only one who gets a kick out of the Kiss of Fire solo? That little change halfway through (~3:40) took me by surprise on the first play through. The tour is coming up soon, which songs would you guys hope to hear live from Underworld, knowing that there will be at least a few?

 

[UlathX]

7. To Hell & Back: Ah, here we are. This song's main riff is stolen from the soundtrack to Tron 2. But forgiving that, it's a great song.

Hmm.. I think you nailed it with the Tron bit. When I heard it, I couldn't place it, but I knew that sounded really familiar. It's still pretty cool though.

 

[AsoTamaki]

The tour is coming up soon, which songs would you guys hope to hear live from Underworld, knowing that there will be at least a few?

I think Nevermore, Without You and Kiss of Fire are pretty much guaranteed to be played. Probably Underworld too. Kiss of Fire and Underworld are the ones I want to see. Legend would be cool too, but who knows. They never played Reign in Madness as far as I know which is a shame. They only thing I definitely don't want to hear is To Hell and Back. It would be a tragedy to waste 10 minutes on that mess instead of one of the older long tracks. I just really hope they drop all of the PL songs from the set this time around.

 

[Liquid Tension]

That's basically my review. Without You, Underworld, Hell & Back are standouts, the rest can be taken or left, preferably left. At least there's more variety and better mixing here than on Iconoclast, but the mastering is still flat as a board. That said, given the content, it'd be hard to give any dynamic room to this stuff.

Those are the three songs I don't like...

That's perfect!

 

[anonym115]

I feel like Legend will be played because of that "audience" version of the chorus at the end of the song.

@Ulathx... I LOVE the Kiss of Fire solo. I was just talking to my cousin about it. The last run slays me hard, especially.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my question directed towards Gentleman of the Snow. It was probably uncalled for and I would like to resume having intelligent discussion about the album. (Been on vacation in Myrtle Beach for a few days!)

 

[scanner313]

Romeo used to compose more than he does now with regards to solos. I remember hearing him say he is improvising more than composing solos on later records, and keeping the first takes whenever possible.

As much as I love his playing, I wish he would compose his solos more like he did in the past. I don't know what it is, but I don't like his guitar tone nearly as much on the last couple of albums as I did in the past. It sounds a little mushy to me. Not enough bite. Also, I keep hearing the same parts over and over again that he's done many times now. I think his improvising is extraordinary, but has become repetitive. Am I the only one who feels this way about his solos?

 

[Adam Fiske]

If I had to categorize the songs from the past 3 albums based on quality, I think it would be something like this. Underworld has the most great tracks, Paradise Lost is the most consistent with nothing particularly bad, Iconoclast runs the gamut without having anything excellent.

Excellent Symphony X songs:
Legend, Revelation

Great Symphony X songs:
Nevermore, Charon, Underworld, Run with the Devil, End of Innocence, When All is Lost, Electric Messiah, Oculus Ex Inferni, Eve of Seduction, Paradise Lost

Perfectly serviceable Symphony X songs:
Overture, Kiss of Fire, To Hell and Back, Swansong, Dehumanized, Children of a Faceless God, Reign in Madness, Light Up the Night, Set the World on Fire, Seven, Serpent's Kiss, The Sacrifice, Walls of Babylon

Symphony X songs I don't like:
Without You, In My Darkest Hour, Prometheus, Lords of Chaos, Iconoclast, Domination

Symphony X songs I really don't like:
Heretic, Bastards of the Machine

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

I feel like Legend will be played because of that "audience" version of the chorus at the end of the song.

@Ulathx... I LOVE the Kiss of Fire solo. I was just talking to my cousin about it. The last run slays me hard, especially.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my question directed towards Gentleman of the Snow. It was probably uncalled for and I would like to resume having intelligent discussion about the album. (Been on vacation in Myrtle Beach for a few days!)

No worries, man. I didn't take offence; I just took it as a normal question.

And to clear things up:
I don't dislike SX or their new albums, I just don't love them like I used to, or like I love a lot of other bands these days.

SX is capable of a LOT more than what we're getting, and it frustrates me.

I bought the album anyway, and I don't regret it. SX provided me with years of amazing music, and I learned a lot about music theory based on them.
They also introduced me to prog, which is still my passion to this day.

I met them and they were great guys, too. I feel bad saying bad things about Underworld, but it's how I feel, coupled with my frustrations.

 

[anonym115]

As much as I love his playing, I wish he would compose his solos more like he did in the past. I don't know what it is, but I don't like his guitar tone nearly as much on the last couple of albums as I did in the past. It sounds a little mushy to me. Not enough bite. Also, I keep hearing the same parts over and over again that he's done many times now. I think his improvising is extraordinary, but has become repetitive. Am I the only one who feels this way about his solos?

I agree that he should compose more, but it just so happens I am a huge fan of his improvising. Rarely (though not never) do I hear him repeat an exact phrase. Usually there is some detail or nuance that is new. I could completely understand that people who are looking for more variation would view it as repetitive. With 1, maybe 2 exceptions on Underworld, I found none of his soloing repetitive.

If I had to categorize the songs from the past 3 albums based on quality, I think it would be something like this. Underworld has the most great tracks, Paradise Lost is the most consistent with nothing particularly bad, Iconoclast runs the gamut without having anything excellent.

Excellent Symphony X songs:
Legend, Revelation

Great Symphony X songs:
Nevermore, Charon, Underworld, Run with the Devil, End of Innocence, When All is Lost, Electric Messiah, Oculus Ex Inferni, Eve of Seduction

Perfectly serviceable Symphony X songs:
Kiss of Fire, To Hell and Back, Swansong, Dehumanized, Children of a Faceless God, Reign in Madness, Light Up the Night, Set the World on Fire, Paradise Lost, Seven, Serpent's Kiss, The Sacrifice, Walls of Babylon

Symphony X songs I don't like:
Without You, In My Darkest Hour, Prometheus, Lords of Chaos, Iconoclast, Domination

Symphony X songs I really don't like:
Heretic, Bastards of the Machine

Wow. This sounds really fun to attempt. I'd like to eventually do it for all albums instead of just the last 3! I think I'll give it a go, using maybe one less category, and just for the most recent 3:

Great Songs: Legend, Swan Song, Kiss of Fire, Underworld


Good Songs: Iconoclast, Set the World on Fire, Domination, The Sacrifice, Revelation, Charon (probably is between Great and Good), Nevermore, To Hell and Back, In My Darkest Hour


Cool "Serviceable" Songs: The End of Innocence, Dehumanized, Bastards of the Machine, Heretic, When All is Lost, Electric Messiah, Prometheus, Light Up the Night, Reign in Madness, Serpent's Kiss, Walls of Babylon, Seven, Without You


Songs I don't particularly care for, but can listen to: Children of a Faceless God, Lords of Chaos, Paradise Lost (probably between Cool and this category), Eve of Seduction, Run with the Devil


Songs I blatantly don't like: None



Gentleman of the Snow, what bands are you into most right now?

 

[UlathX]

I don't see the big deal with Legend (yet), but I was also initially unimpressed with Swan Song, and it grew on me after about six listens or so. As far as recycled stuff..it seems like the Nevermore solo gets reused later on in either Run With the Devil or maybe In My Darkest Hour.. can't remember right off.

As far as Underworld songs for the upcoming tour, I'd be happy hearing Underworld, and anything else would be cool. As for non-UW stuff, I've heard them close out with The Odyssey before. I'd love to hear DWOT, but something tells me that wouldn't happen.

 

[Phanto]

This album is pretty much what I expected from SX.

1. Overture: Why, that was unnecessary. Zzzz
2. Nevermore: Nevermore shall I listen to this song. It's just a riffy chug-fest of unmemorable ideas.
3. Underworld: Okay, the album isn't a total loss. This song is quite good and well-arranged.
4. Without You: On a roll now, finally a break from the pace and the realization that "oh, right!" we need dynamics to emphasize the loud and fast by incorporating soft and slow.
5. Kiss of Fire: Yes, we've finally gotten to the - oh, nevermind, more unmemorable chug-fest.
6. Charon: A slight improvement?
7. To Hell & Back: Ah, here we are. This song's main riff is stolen from the soundtrack to Tron 2. But forgiving that, it's a great song.
8. In My Darkest Hour: Back to the slog, though better constructed than the other ones.
9. Run With The Devil: Pretty classic roots here, along with some of the other tracks, definite channeling of Van Halen and Savatage, and not just in the track title.
10. Swan Song: Fucking horrific. Meandering, lost, without cohesion. This feels half finished at best.
11. Legend: Sounds like SX is saying "yep, we know the lyrics on all the tracks were bad, but you buy it don't ya?!"

That's basically my review. Without You, Underworld, Hell & Back are standouts, the rest can be taken or left, preferably left. At least there's more variety and better mixing here than on Iconoclast, but the mastering is still flat as a board. That said, given the content, it'd be hard to give any dynamic room to this stuff.

good review although I think swan song is the best one. "meandering", "without cohesion" could be applied to any song on the album.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Gentleman of the Snow, what bands are you into most right now?

I also answered your question but you don't want to know what I'm into right now...

 

[anonym115]

Oh no, Liquid Tension, I do! Let me know! I'm always trying to find new stuff.

@Ulath: Yes, that part irritates me more than anything on the entire album. That Run With the Devil solo repeat just irks me so badly.

 

[Kenneth R.]

good review although I think swan song is the best one. "meandering", "without cohesion" could be applied to any song on the album.

I think the weak lyrics really took the fore on that one, and became so much of an eyesore that I couldn't even listen to it. It sounds like something a 14yr old would write. I pictured them performing it at the high school dance in my head. Cringe.

Those are the three songs I don't like...

That's perfect!

You've always liked the noodly shit that I don't care for. Give me melody or give me death. I like heavy, and I like fast, but there need to be dynamics and there need to be changes in tempo and arrangement to emphasize just how hard and heavy the epic parts are. Otherwise, it all sounds like a wall of noise, which is a different genre altogether. There's a reason that Rage Against The Machine's debut album is still used extensively to audition loudspeakers: It's loud and punchy as fuck. Explosive. Makes your cones jump out of their cabinets. But also subtle and delicate between those blasts. It's a masterpiece of mixing and mastering. SX and their producers could learn a lot from that, both in terms of arrangement and production. A lot of Motown records have these properties too - crystal clear, you can hear all the instruments distinctly, and smoothly blended with punchy dynamics and detail in the soft sections.

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

I think the weak lyrics really took the fore on that one, and became so much of an eyesore that I couldn't even listen to it. It sounds like something a 14yr old would write. I pictured them performing it at the high school dance in my head. Cringe.



You've always liked the noodly shit that I don't care for. Give me melody or give me death. I like heavy, and I like fast, but there need to be dynamics and there need to be changes in tempo and arrangement to emphasize just how hard and heavy the epic parts are. Otherwise, it all sounds like a wall of noise, which is a different genre altogether. There's a reason that Rage Against The Machine's debut album is still used extensively to audition loudspeakers: It's loud and punchy as fuck. Explosive. Makes your cones jump out of their cabinets. But also subtle and delicate between those blasts. It's a masterpiece of mixing and mastering. SX and their producers could learn a lot from that, both in terms of arrangement and production. A lot of Motown records have these properties too - crystal clear, you can hear all the instruments distinctly, and smoothly blended with punchy dynamics and detail in the soft sections.

I'm kinda over the noodling, too. Sometimes, it works, and I can enjoy it. Often, it's so shallow, I just find it completely uninteresting. Dream Theater is the biggest offender with the noodling. DT writes over-the-top noodle-fest sections, which are boring in themselves compared to other bands who can noodle better, while the remaining pieces of the songs are typical, predictable, and boring.