Vocal Recording

StefTD

StefTD

Member
Jun 29, 2005
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Esslingen, Germany
So here are my problems and questions:

I am recording the demo of my band (death metal) at the moment, guitars and drums worked well, bass is ok, too.
But the vocals are the problem (I am the singer).
I use an ART MP preamp (yeah I know, not that great, but that's all I could afford) and have access a SHURE SM57, my soundcard is a Terratec Phase 22.
I spent a lot of time in learning the right technique and so on and my vocals sound good live and at the rehearsals, but recorded they suck.
Don't know if it's the signal chain, my use of the mic (no I don't cup it and I use a pop filter), my room or something else.
My next thought was to try the mic I use at our rehearsal room (some very cheap Behringer dynamic mic for 25 euros) because I got better results with that thing directly into a POD I with the tube preamp preset into my old shitty soundcard than nowadays with a Shure into a Mic pre and a better soundcard.

Another thing is, I don't really know how to get the vocals in the mix the best way.
Tried around with some recorded tones (that I really hate because they sound like pure shit, sounds better if I record with my little digicam).
EQd them, compressed them, put a slight reverb on them and so on, but they never sounded good at all and it sounded like you have some well recorded instrumental and some guy who was drunken for about 20 years trying to sound like a pig in the background.

And I really think that my voice ain't the problem (tried many different styles of grunting) because it sounded good or ok almost everywhere and that's not just my opinion.
I know that sounds really arrogant and overconfident but I know that I am not that bad at death metal vocals, I suck at almost everything, can't play guitar after 10 years, I am a very average/below average bassplayer after 5 years and I am the worst drummer on earth :D (and I only mix and record our demo because the other guys are to lazy to read stuff about recording) .
 
Hey man post a clip (or email me one) of your vocals, that would help us give you better advice. A better mic makes a HUGE difference with vocals, if you can, an SM7 isn't too expensive and would be a marked improvement...

Otherwise, if you're timing is really good you can layer the vocals with a different EQ on each, maybe even a different type of screaming too. Blend those together until it sounds like one BIG voice and then blend it in with the music. With death metal the vocals are mixed as much to be a part of the band rather than a pop approach that has them sitting on top of everything else.

If you don't want to layer, try moving the mic off axis, moving closer, farther, next to it whatever just try to find a spot that accentuates your voice.

Hope some of that helped....
 
Thanks man! About clips, it's a bit difficult at the moment, I think I could post some in a week or so because I don't have access to the internet at home at the moment.
I'm really frustrated because a very cheap mic with no real preamp and a very bad soundcard sounded better than my current setup for vocals (it's good for guitars and bass...).
What about the Shure SM58? The SM7 is way out of my price range at the moment (and we should finish the demo in the next 4 weeks and I am a pupil with no job).
I never had the chance to test many mics so I don't know what's good for my use.
The sound at our rehearsal room with a cheap Behringer Mic and some old partly broken PA is better...
I used different mics live, one time it was a Shure SM58 I think and my vocals were very clear and sounded good through the PA (an average one) so it could be good or would you recommend me something like a Rode NT1A?

I really don't know what to get, should be under 150 Euros (the Shure SM7 is around 550-600 Euros here, so noway).
I trained my technique for 5 years now and I really don't want to have such a bad sound on our demo.
About that off axis thing, I tried different things, varied between 2cm away from the mic to 20 cms away from the mic and so on, nothing was good...
 
StefTD said:
Thanks man! About clips, it's a bit difficult at the moment, I think I could post some in a week or so because I don't have access to the internet at home at the moment.
I'm really frustrated because a very cheap mic with no real preamp and a very bad soundcard sounded better than my current setup for vocals (it's good for guitars and bass...).
What about the Shure SM58? The SM7 is way out of my price range at the moment (and we should finish the demo in the next 4 weeks and I am a pupil with no job).
I never had the chance to test many mics so I don't know what's good for my use.
The sound at our rehearsal room with a cheap Behringer Mic and some old partly broken PA is better...
I used different mics live, one time it was a Shure SM58 I think and my vocals were very clear and sounded good through the PA (an average one) so it could be good or would you recommend me something like a Rode NT1A?

I really don't know what to get, should be under 150 Euros (the Shure SM7 is around 550-600 Euros here, so noway).
I trained my technique for 5 years now and I really don't want to have such a bad sound on our demo.
About that off axis thing, I tried different things, varied between 2cm away from the mic to 20 cms away from the mic and so on, nothing was good...
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, Gavin tracked his vocals for my song Into gray with an SM57 (stream: http://www.mikseri.net/music/play.php?id=292877&type=hi). If you want, you can compare that song to your own SM57 vocal tracking to narrow down the problem. If it has the same character you don't like, then just begin the hunt for a new vox mic :)
 
it's not the fucking mic

you need to get a real fucking preamp

it will NEVER sound right until you do
 
Bullshit. Two dollars' worth of mods and you're set. They can be transparent if you want them to be, and if you know what you're doing you can take care of it from there.

Jeff
 
bullshit you.

crap in, crap out.

no mods are going to do a damn thing worthwhile for that piece of shit preamp.

get an API or anything 500 series and you are fucking rolling.
 
Darkening said:
bullshit you.

crap in, crap out.

no mods are going to do a damn thing worthwhile for that piece of shit preamp.

get an API or anything 500 series and you are fucking rolling.
Click to expand...

'Bullshit me'. I'm impressed. Way to counter an assertion with examples and technical details, chief.

Do you have one that's been tweaked to hell and back? Have you used one enough to say that with all of that confidence? I'd hate to imply that you don't know what you're talking about unless you can say yes to both of those questions, but a little bit of fun I once had with a modded MP circuit in a fancier 'custom'-looking box, mics of every shape and color, and a certain 'customer' who rubbed me the wrong way seems to contradict the general dislike of that little box.

The equipment he has is good enough to not be the limiting factor in what he does. Maybe when he knows how to mix vocals properly he should start buying $600 preamps, but if the best advice you can give is to buy more stuff then you're pretty much going to be useless. You haven't heard clips. You haven't been anywhere near his setup. You haven't heard him in person. Plenty of people on this board could make a kickass-sounding clip with the cheap-shit equipment you're going to blame his problems on just because they know what they're doing - if someone comes here and asks a question, it is assumed that they want to know what they're doing. If people wanted to be told that everything they owned sucked, they would have gone to a Guitar Center and heard a bunch of hacks telling them about how with a $5000 budget and their incredible deals they could be making records with the best of them. Until you have some idea of what he's getting, you're hardly in a position to diagnose his problems unless you happen to be the Norse god of blanket statements. Would you believe a doctor that told you that you had the flu before he even had any idea what your symptoms were? Would you trust an auto mechanic who advised you to purchase three grand worth of parts before knowing what the funny noises under your hood actually sound like? I wouldn't. And if I had gotten advice like that when I started posting around here I would have turned around and left. The people he really wants advice from would have no problem making something sound good through his gear, so cut this bullshit and drop the blame-gear-first mentality.

StefTD, clips would be very helpful, and I insist that you ignore anyone who hasn't actually heard your work before telling you to spend a dime on so much as a candy bar. Let's hear what's going on before jumping to solutions like that.

Also, check out http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20427 if you want to be really fucking impressed, and never blame your bloody gear.

Jeff
 
a dynamic mic into a cheap pre will always sound cheap.

you can polish turds, but they still fucking reek.

you can buy tons and tons of cheap gear and feel like you have a lot of cool stuff but it does not compare to at least ONE good piece of equipment that you will never outgrow.

and no professional mixer wants to receive tracks done on a fucking ART MP.

just my experience.
 
You're still operating under the assumption that the MP is beyond saving. I don't have any reason to believe this. That's the problem - it can be made very usable, either a warm, rich sound or a clear and transparent sound, with just a little bit of work. I'm not advocating going out and buying Behringer's entire $99-and-down selection, by any stretch, and I'm not saying expensive gear isn't worth it, but it's at most a tool - and right now his tools probably aren't what's holding him back.

Somehow I've never gotten comments at all about my stuff sounding 'cheap' or being 'turds' or 'reeking', so either everyone on this forum is inferior to you and your wonderful hearing or you're just biased against gear that costs an arm and a leg. Just my experience.

A quick hint - if you're asked to tell why something sucks, and your response is 'it sucks', you're not going to come across as being the brightest bulb in the box.

Jeff
 
Thanks, I don't wanted to sound like an asshole but I was really frustrated when I posted it yesterday because I tried around for 5 hours.
Got some cheap condenstaor mic, worked a bit better than the Shure SM57 for my vox.
About the clips, I hope I can post something tomorrow, I record at home and use the internet at my girlfriend's house at the moment and the only stuff of my band is some pre mix with 2 guitars, no solo backing and so on that I did 5 or 6 weeks ago (yeah I know, not that good but it's my first real mix).


I know that almost everybody here is way better at recording and so on than me.
If everything works out well I can get a some SPL Goldmike Preamp for recording from a friend of my uncle, not sure though, he lives 700 km away from here but my uncle said he will bring it when I called him 2 hours ago.

I was really pissed when I posted my answer here yesterday because I tried different vocal styles and so on and almoste everything sounded very untransparent and harsh (normal speaking, too).

I am not able to buy a better pre, the vocals in the link sounded very ok @JBroll, my grunting voice is a bit deeper (more glen benton style) but it would be great to have a sound like this. My recordings are very dull and so on, how much do you compress vocals? Because it helped them quite a lot but I am very new to mixing vocals.

Thanks very much and excuse me for my undiscerning behaviour.
 
At first, I mixed up who posted the link I meant.
jhakwe I meant the link you posted.
And I forgot to post the link of the pre mix I've done so here it is:

http://www.megaupload.com/de/?d=C1HIJGPQ
(Enter the 3 letter key on the top right, wait for 45 seconds, download it)
Like I said, no vocals, no bass, one guitar is missing and a few things are redone now, will post more samples when I am able to.

I think I will pause on recording vocals for a few days to refresh and use all your tricks. And I will try almost every Mic I can get my hands on, hopefully with better results.
 
Darkening said:
bullshit you.

crap in, crap out.

no mods are going to do a damn thing worthwhile for that piece of shit preamp.

get an API or anything 500 series and you are fucking rolling.
Click to expand...

I would actually guess that 90% of all death metal recordings have been made with cheap preamps - and with vocals that are totally agressive and harsh sounding, the quality of a preamp isn't that big of a deal.

Especially for a demo recording.

Good sounds can be made with almost anything under all conditions ...
 
of course you can FORCE low end gear to work with lots of EQ and processing.

have fun guys, this just isn't the board for me. i'm not a hobbyist and don't identify with hobbyist musicians. i dedicate my life and my earnings to my craft.

signing off.

:Smokin:
 
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