Waves L1 Side-Chain function?

first of all its only supposed to kill the natural snare sound in LIVE overheads when you are sample replacing the kit entirely.

drag the threshold down so that the limiter is smashing the snare but not limiting the other kit elements. then set the release time to the length of the snare decay. you can do the same thing with a compressor sidechained by the snare track but 99 times out of 100 the snare is the loudest element in overhead track in heavier music so its just easier to do it this way rather then setting up a sidechain.
 
OneDaySky said:
I know it doesn't, thats why i wonder why so many different ppl have mentioned this. Or is it a case of ppl re quoting incorrect information to make it sound like they know what they doing?
Click to expand...

this thread is the only time i (personally) have ever heard anyone mention a sidechain on L1. :err:

even if you google search it ...this thread is the only result.



maybe the people you heard this from should talk less and learn more?
 
alan1990 said:
first of all its only supposed to kill the natural snare sound in LIVE overheads when you are sample replacing the kit entirely.

drag the threshold down so that the limiter is smashing the snare but not limiting the other kit elements. then set the release time to the length of the snare decay. you can do the same thing with a compressor sidechained by the snare track but 99 times out of 100 the snare is the loudest element in overhead track in heavier music so its just easier to do it this way rather then setting up a sidechain.
Click to expand...

Forsure man! I got real drums, and replacing the shells, so wanted to try this alleged 'L1 trick' but it isnt possible! So Im gonna try the side chain function, i just want to carve the snare out of the overheads a bit, so i dont think just the L1 inserted will do the trick! But thx dude!
 
OneDaySky said:
Forsure man! I got real drums, and replacing the shells, so wanted to try this alleged 'L1 trick' but it isnt possible! So Im gonna try the side chain function, i just want to carve the snare out of the overheads a bit, so i dont think just the L1 inserted will do the trick! But thx dude!
Click to expand...

Rofl I think your missing the point the l1 is a limiter there is no trick a limiter smashes down on peaks and makes them quieter, he's saying that since the snare drum is the most prominent thing in metal overheads use the l1 to tame the snare peaks. If it was ever referred to as a trick this might be because the l1 is notorious for eating up the snare drum when used as a mastering limiter. Using the l1 and side-chaining with a compressor will more or less give you similar results.
 
yeah the trick I described is to kill the snare though doing it with a compressor will give you the same result even with a sidechain because the snare is the loudest element so so by limiting the overheads like i said you are only limiting the snare hits.

side chaining would do the same thing but its really only necessary say if you wanted to duck the kick drum from the overhead(just an example) because the kick isnt the loudest thing in the overheads you cant just limit the track because you would have to limit everything to even effect the kick at all and thats not what you are trying to do. in this case you would need the side chain from the kick mic to tell the compressor when to open, but with the snare because its already the loudest part of the overheads limiting it will do exactly the same thing because the snare is already 6-10 db louder then the rest of the kit in the overs so you dont need the sidechain to distinguish between snare and the rest of the overhead because the snare is just the first thing the limiter would hit because its the loudest part
 
OneDaySky said:
Totally dude! So you never heard of the legendary Joey Sturgis L1 trick? Ive seen it on loads of threads.
Click to expand...

no ...i have heard of sidechaining a snare drum to overheads in an effort to subdue the snare attack in the overhead mics.

but it doesn't belong to sturgis (nor did he pioneer it). it's been done a million times before joey and lots more before that.

i think for the sake of this thread, you might want to link the previous threads regarding this "trick" ...as to not seem like you are not totally making this up. :loco:

like everyone has said already; this isn't a trick... it's what limiters do.

it's like saying "the trick to adding reverb to a snare is by sending the snare to a reverb bus." it's just how it is done (for the most part).


i would like to see more about this "trick" ...because unless it is something different, it just sounds basic.
 
koalamo said:
Rofl I think your missing the point the l1 is a limiter there is no trick a limiter smashes down on peaks and makes them quieter, he's saying that since the snare drum is the most prominent thing in metal overheads use the l1 to tame the snare peaks. If it was ever referred to as a trick this might be because the l1 is notorious for eating up the snare drum when used as a mastering limiter. Using the l1 and side-chaining with a compressor will more or less give you similar results.
Click to expand...

Im not missing any point man! I just been saying, i read about this 'trick' alot so i tried it, which is clearly impossible to do! And yeah i already use the L1 alot on eating snare on the overheads, i was just interested in hearing what it would of done in a side chain situation (which i read about) My fav is the SSL E-channel on them overheads though ;)
 
alan1990 said:
yeah the trick I described is to kill the snare though doing it with a compressor will give you the same result even with a sidechain because the snare is the loudest element so so by limiting the overheads like i said you are only limiting the snare hits.

side chaining would do the same thing but its really only necessary say if you wanted to duck the kick drum from the overhead(just an example) because the kick isnt the loudest thing in the overheads you cant just limit the track because you would have to limit everything to even effect the kick at all and thats not what you are trying to do. in this case you would need the side chain from the kick mic to tell the compressor when to open, but with the snare because its already the loudest part of the overheads limiting it will do exactly the same thing because the snare is already 6-10 db louder then the rest of the kit in the overs so you dont need the sidechain to distinguish between snare and the rest of the overhead because the snare is just the first thing the limiter would hit because its the loudest part
Click to expand...

Forsure dude!
 
in my most recent project I had a nasty snare bleed into my OH's, and the mics where a bit off centre from the snare, so the right OH mic got around 2 db more of the snare than the left. so I got a bad thumpy snare tone in my OH's that was both bad and off centre. it's times like these sidechaining really helps. but I prefer compressors, they are more dynamic. when using limiters you get that pumpy sound on every hit (since you are essencially only limiting the ceiling pushing the level down, which can also be harsh at times. logically it would also bring the snare up in relation to the cymbals even though the actual ceiling gets lower?), but with compressors you can set a fair ratio and play more with the threshold and release times (and even automate it for some hits) so that when the snare is hit the hardest, often during fills and stuff, the comp is pushing the OH's down quite a bit. during regular grooves using a longer release can create quite a natural feel, almost like parallell compression. for this to work I also send my compressor pre-fader in Cubase 5, so that the compressor is affected by the natural performance alone, and not the super pushed and clipped crack-samples drumagog is running. you can do this in stages too, I know joey (since we now are in joey town) make all his drums production ready before even starting to track rythm gtrs, and he prints his samples so that he has total control over the end result (no risk for drumagog mistriggering something in the export, saves CPU too), but when you're doing that and have crappy overheads, print the sidechained compressor onto the OHs before printing the snare.
 
alan1990 said:
yeah the trick I described is to kill the snare though doing it with a compressor will give you the same result even with a sidechain because the snare is the loudest element so so by limiting the overheads like i said you are only limiting the snare hits.

side chaining would do the same thing but its really only necessary say if you wanted to duck the kick drum from the overhead(just an example) because the kick isnt the loudest thing in the overheads you cant just limit the track because you would have to limit everything to even effect the kick at all and thats not what you are trying to do. in this case you would need the side chain from the kick mic to tell the compressor when to open, but with the snare because its already the loudest part of the overheads limiting it will do exactly the same thing because the snare is already 6-10 db louder then the rest of the kit in the overs so you dont need the sidechain to distinguish between snare and the rest of the overhead because the snare is just the first thing the limiter would hit because its the loudest part
Click to expand...

that is very true, when using a limiter you're pushing everything closer to the ceiling, the snare is louder so it brings the cymbals up and evens out the dynamics, but I think these SCing methods apply better when you have a crappy snare (or the tone is bad due to bad OH mic placement or the room) and the bleed into the overheads sucks balls and destroys the overall tone, or just peaks out at certain hits.

if I like the bleed tone it remains as is, but if I'm recording in a room with a low ceiling for example, the mics are placed closer to the kit which generally creates a more prominent more attack-ish bleed from the shells. those times I side-chain the snare AND the toms to bring it BACK to how it should sound, then I limit.
 
OneDaySky said:
Im not missing any point man! I just been saying, i read about this 'trick' alot so i tried it, which is clearly impossible to do! And yeah i already use the L1 alot on eating snare on the overheads, i was just interested in hearing what it would of done in a side chain situation (which i read about) My fav is the SSL E-channel on them overheads though ;)
Click to expand...

.....yes
 
Where have you actual heard you need to SC it ?
Course i have read and heard about the legendary L1-snare-smash-trick, but never have there been any side chaining involved ?
 
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