What do we mean by "groove" in thrash / death metal?

[lurch70]

this IS fucking groove ... video of Turned Inside Out from Obituary ... live in London

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDz1VsDi0Ss&search=obituary

i love how these fuckers can switch from fast to slow on a dime ... nobody does it better

 

[Impudent]

Ok, now I'm confused. I've always seen groove used in a derogatory way before and now it's mostly being used in a good way. Is there good and bad groove?

 

[Hell Mike]

There definitely is good groove and bad groove. If groove=sväng.

 

[JayKeeley]

If Sepultura (BtR and Arise) and Bolt Thrower is groove, then I'm all over it.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

Ok, now I'm confused. I've always seen groove used in a derogatory way before and now it's mostly being used in a good way. Is there good and bad groove?

hell yes

i think groove is best when used sparingly, the end of cryptopsy "abigor" is a good example...or the pinch-harmonics riff in aborted "meticulous invagination"...or that really sweet riff in nile "sacrifice unto sebek", you know, the really sick one

the bad kind of groove is the kind that goes

CHUG (silence) CHUGGACHUGGACHUGGACHUG (silence) CHUG (silence) CHUGGACHUGGACHUGGACHUG (insert whiny emo screaming)

 

[Impudent]

So good groove is groovy, bad groove is breakdowns?

 

[swizzlenuts]

So good groove is groovy, bad groove is breakdowns?

QFT

 

[JayKeeley]

Nobody in this thread is coming up with any specific definitions, I don't even think we're all thinking of the same thing.

To me, a breakdown was a change in tempo/riff where, perhaps, you go from some faster style playing to half-time crunching "breakdown".

Example:

Metallica - Blackened...."see your mother put to death, see your mother die"....that whole mid-tempo breakdown was indeed a breakdown.

With regards to groove, in order for groove to exist, the music has to be groovy. Duh. Bolt Thrower, as displayed on their latest album, is PACKED full of groove. That means the drum pattern, in all good conscience, could be thrown into some 70's groovy funk song structure and it would fit. Of course, the key difference being is that in metal, you have a drum pattern groove UNDER the metal riffs. Put 2 and 2 together, and you get groove.

 

[lurch70]

when are you guys "really" going to listen to BLOOD RED THRONE?

them and Obituary are THE definition in me book

 

[lurch70]

double stuff

 

[Impudent]

Nobody in this thread is coming up with any specific definitions, I don't even think we're all thinking of the same thing.

To me, a breakdown was a change in tempo/riff where, perhaps, you go from some faster style playing to half-time crunching "breakdown".

Example:

Metallica - Blackened...."see your mother put to death, see your mother die"....that whole mid-tempo breakdown was indeed a breakdown.

With regards to groove, in order for groove to exist, the music has to be groovy. Duh. Bolt Thrower, as displayed on their latest album, is PACKED full of groove. That means the drum pattern, in all good conscience, could be thrown into some 70's groovy funk song structure and it would fit. Of course, the key difference being is that in metal, you have a drum pattern groove UNDER the metal riffs. Put 2 and 2 together, and you get groove.

See, I always thought groove was defined by the guitar work, not the drums. I'm so lost.

 

[JayKeeley]

Well, if you take the concept of "groove" outside of metal, it's all about the rhythm of the beat.

groove = dance beat / disco / funk

Someone along the way stole the term and used it to describe certain metal moments or bands. I've heard people refer to DEICIDE as having groove in their death metal riffs. Henrik Main here used VOMITORY as an example. I'm using BOLT THROWER.

One thing is clear, the term "groove" in metal seems only to apply to death or thrash metal....and then it's to each his own, haha. I think it's become too bastardized and subjective.

So I now declare the term "groove" null and void since nobody actually knows what the fuck they're talking about (except when talking to themselves).

 

[skeptik]

Overkill's later works, most of Machine Head's stuff, etc., is what is considered "Groove" Metal. A lot of Traditional Doom I would consider to have a distinct groove as well.

 

[Impudent]

Oh, and later Exodus.

 

[JayKeeley]

Let me ask you guys something:

Sepultura - ROOTS BLOODY ROOTS

Does that have "groove"?

 

[lurch70]

too much groove

 

[Impudent]

So, is groove metal really a stand alone genre, or is it more of a false genre that is used to refer to certain bands?

 

[JayKeeley]

I don't think it's a genre label....more to do with a riff/drum pattern style found within moments of a song.

 

[JayKeeley]

too much groove

OK then, but at least we're on the right track.

So on one slightly extreme end of the spectrum, you have Sepultura and their Brazilian tribal drum beats, as in ROOTS.

So what about Bolt Thrower?

 

[Impudent]

So then Pantera aren't really groove metal?