What do you think about Iconoclast?

^Yes, I absolutely love his drumming on The Odyssey song, as well as the album. As far as V, who doesn't love that section in Death of Balance?
 
IC suffers from "wall of sound" production and "wall of sound" arrangement - especially the drumming. Too metal is a nice way to put it. Metal can sound groovy. Listen to just about any Iron Maiden, hell even Bathory is groovy. This is just flat. Not Rullo's fault - it's the arrangement.
 
Are you talking about the loudness war stuff? I agree that there is a huge lack of dynamics on Iconoclast.
 
Kenneth R. said:
IC suffers from "wall of sound" production and "wall of sound" arrangement - especially the drumming. Too metal is a nice way to put it. Metal can sound groovy. Listen to just about any Iron Maiden, hell even Bathory is groovy. This is just flat. Not Rullo's fault - it's the arrangement.
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Let's not forget Opeth! Some of the most groovy and dynamic-driven metal drum-work.

It's sad... I really thought SX was going to create an awe-inspiring album with a ton of different styles and moods intertwined with creative song structures and ideas. :(
Everything is so quick to the point... zero subtlety.

As I wrote once before, it would've been a stroke of brilliance if SX would've successfully conveyed "humans vs. machine" within the music.
Can you imagine having machine-like sections (similar to IC as it is, or maybe even bolder), in contrast to warm, earthy, and passionate sections, interwoven together?

The last song could build up with a strong intensity, heavy as hell, and then it just breaks... and you're left with a vulnerable, organic close, pulled off with soul and feel. A perfect way to convey the message that humans will always be better than machines because we have many depths to offer.
 
_Gentleman of_the Snow_ said:
Can you imagine having machine-like sections (similar to IC as it is, or maybe even bolder), in contrast to warm, earthy, and passionate sections, interwoven together?

The last song could build up with a strong intensity, heavy as hell, and then it just breaks... and you're left with a vulnerable, organic close, pulled off with soul and feel. A perfect way to convey the message that humans will always be better than machines because we have many depths to offer.
Click to expand...

WAIL is about as close to warm, earthy and passionate as you'll get...But even then its just a gloomy, sad song. The end is depressing and is not anything like V's "Can we change?" or The Oddysey's "Seems like forever my eyes have been denied.......I have returned to make my dream come true." Or even Revelation in PL ends with "I've got to find a way, a way, to rise above it all," then fades into the DWOT melody (awesome, btw). IMO, all of THOSE endings convey hope...where as the end of WAIL, and most of the song actually, is just downright depressing.
There is a bit of hope in WAIL though...."I Hope you'll understand, one day" and "Can they find their way?" is pretty moving. But the overall depressing mood fits the album. The majority of hope being conveyed in this album is done so during the title track, at the beginning, not the end. And it is more of a 'we're gonna hold our ground and kick your ass' kind of hope.
Things get worse during the 'machine takeover,' and therefore, throughout the album. I'm not saying the album gets worse, just the mood. When it comes to SX and their newer stuff, I guess it just depends on what mood you are in...
 
The only part of WAIL that I really like is the instrumental part from 4:40 to 6:13. I also like 1:26 to 2:00, and the harmonized part from 7:48 to 8:03, but that's it - the rest of the song is a bore fest, not unlike Paradise lost (song). I think the "complex" part at 6:55 and the guitar solo that follows it are completely out of place for this type of song.

Romeo needs to start letting the other members co-write the "ballads," because they've really lost the spark in this department.
 
Nah, the only thing keeping WAIL from being among their best "ballads" is the cheesiness of the lyrics (and the way Allen delivers them) in some sections.
 
^^Is there something wrong with the chorus in your opinion,? I think it's pretty good, one of the better ones they've done lately. The guitar lead at 6.30 is cool too, the fast section after that does come a bit out of nowhere, but it's not bad. I'm just having a hard time seeing any part of the song as a complete borefest, as to me it's one of the more interesting songs on the album to listen to. Maybe it gets highlighted by being so different from most of the album or something, but borefest? Really?
 
Yeah, I'd say it's among the best. I could easily see it next after, in no order: all the epics, everything from V, the other ballad songs(Accolade, Edge of Forever, etc.), Walls of Babylon, Revelation, Awakenings, Masquerade, Frontiers, Church of the Machine, King of Terrors, and Shades of Grey!
 
I could see it next after The Odyssey, and maybe a couple more (Rediscovery, Revelation, DWOT). Maybe.
 
Maybe just a few more. Lol.

It's definitely much better than Paradise Lost and Sacrifice. The song has the best melodies they've done recently, hands down. Also, some of Pinnella's highlights. The only issues I have with it are the lyrics generally sucking and the second guitar solo being rather poor (until the harmonized part). I do also wish that the transition at 6:13 wasn't so abrupt, but everything after that flows very well and doesn't seem out of place.
 
I think the chorus is pretty decent, actually. I am also a fan of that multi-layered instrumental part... similar to Accolade.

The song doesn't fit what I was trying to say before in regards to being the "human" element, though.
There is nothing really organic or human-sounding in this song at all. It's softer and more melodic, but it's still mechanical in its delivery, IMO.
 
WAIL is good song, no question. But it plays a lot like a compilation of the band's greatest prog hits rather than anything really new. I mean, Communion starts off similar to the way The Accolade does, but man, what a fresh difference there is between the two.
 
_Gentleman of_the Snow_ said:
I think the chorus is pretty decent, actually. I am also a fan of that multi-layered instrumental part... similar to Accolade.

The song doesn't fit what I was trying to say before in regards to being the "human" element, though.
There is nothing really organic or human-sounding in this song at all. It's softer and more melodic, but it's still mechanical in its delivery, IMO.
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I think part of this is due to the fact that there is not an acoustic or clean electric guitar in this song. In fact, the whole album lacks both of these. Maybe Romeo broke his foot and couldn't hit the pedal during production... I love Iconoclast. But Romeo's got some pretty damn good clean and acoustic stuff I wish he could have thrown in there.
 
ItsOjMang said:
I think part of this is due to the fact that there is not an acoustic or clean electric guitar in this song. In fact, the whole album lacks both of these.
Click to expand...

Um...

WAIL @ 5:20
Reign In Madness @ 4:42
The End of Innocence @ 3:02
Prometheus (I Am Alive) @ 0:00

It's possible that the last two are keyboard, though.

But compared to Symphony X's other albums, you're right - there's far less clean/acoustic guitars.
 
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