What the **** is wrong with people?

[Evil Penguin]

There was an article about a controversial film on Wikipedia last month. CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST, an Italian film with Italian and American actors contained several on-camera killings of animals, including a squirrel monkey that has its face cut off by a machete and a raccoon stabbed in the neck multiple times. It is appreciated as a movie on "social commentary" of the modern world by some and reviled by others as an exploitation film.

I'm curious to know if the exhibit of the starving animal was meant as a deep and insightful commentary on our enlightened civilization that accepts such tasteless exhibit as art when it comes pre-labeled as art.

 

[Jim LotFP]

There was an article about a controversial film on Wikipedia last month. CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST, an Italian film with Italian and American actors contained several on-camera killings of animals, including a squirrel monkey that has its face cut off by a machete and a raccoon stabbed in the neck multiple times. It is appreciated as a movie on "social commentary" of the modern world by some and reviled by others as an exploitation film.

I own that movie on DVD. I really don't have a problem with most of the animal stuff because the crew ate everything they killed, and everything they killed was normal food for the locals they used in making the movie. One exception - the muskrat (not raccoon), that was killed for the hell of it and was one of the more disturbing things in the movie.

The special edition that came out a few years back was notable for the commentaries and extra interviews... the lead actor HATES the movie and he chastises the director during the commentary for the content of the movie... and in the interview with the re-issue producers, he all but begged them to edit out the muskrat killing because it was without any point whatsoever.

 

[Cheiron]

There was a movie made in Canada showing the torturing of a cat as a social commentary (trying to say something about how they were skinning this cat alive was somehow similar to the beef industry... apparently they were vegetarians?). The creators of the film went to jail. Rightfully. The creators later said they were high on shrooms during basically all of it. But the movie showed at one theater. The theater thought it was fake. They quickly removed it when they found out it was real.

 

[JenniferLynn]

I own that movie on DVD. I really don't have a problem with most of the animal stuff because the crew ate everything they killed, and everything they killed was normal food for the locals they used in making the movie. One exception - the muskrat (not raccoon), that was killed for the hell of it and was one of the more disturbing things in the movie.

Does the fact that they ate what they kill make the brutal manner in how the animals were killed 'okay'?? Absolutely not... If you want a steak and bash the cow's brains in with a crow bar, how is that ok??? (yes I know, an extreme example but you get my point)

Animals feel pain just as we do - use the intelligence given you and show a little compassion...

If you're going to eat it fine but be humane...

 

[Jim LotFP]

Funny part is that the director almost got into a lot more trouble than he did... people thought he really killed the actors, too.

 

[lady_space]

I think one thing you may be missing is that people are reacting to, whether true or hoax, the idea of an animal being abused/killed/tortured for the sake of art or publicity.

Ding ding fucking ding. How difficult is THAT to figure out??? Whether it happened or not, which, by the way, sure seems highly debatable to me, the points still stand.

Besides, I am skeptical of either "side" of the story. That's like finding a quote by one of the FLDS folks saying "no, we don't fuck little girls" and buying it.

Shaye

 

[BlackRoseMetalHeart]

Does the fact that they ate what they kill make the brutal manner in how the animals were killed 'okay'?? Absolutely not... If you want a steak and bash the cow's brains in with a crow bar, how is that ok??? (yes I know, an extreme example but you get my point)

Animals feel pain just as we do - use the intelligence given you and show a little compassion...

If you're going to eat it fine but be humane...

I don't know if you've read much about the way most government American slaughter houses are run, but from what I've gathered it's pretty much just as bad. Those cows, pigs, chickens, etc. are all being raised for food ... essentially for profit ... and the folks that are raising them aren't as concerned about being compassionate or humane as much as they are being frugal and raising as much meat for the slaughter as possible.

 

[Petethedrummer]

Does the fact that they ate what they kill make the brutal manner in how the animals were killed 'okay'?? Absolutely not... If you want a steak and bash the cow's brains in with a crow bar, how is that ok??? (yes I know, an extreme example but you get my point)

Animals feel pain just as we do - use the intelligence given you and show a little compassion...

If you're going to eat it fine but be humane...

Haha yeah i don't know where you're from...but if you're eating meat in america, chances are the animals are being brutalized pretty bad. Some animals here are certainly bashed with crowbars. Cows get their throats slit (but not enough to kill them right away, not until the 'bleed out,' so they hang their upside down dangling and in pain), etc. PETA gets a bad rap sometimes, but have you taken a look at any of their videos? Even if they tend to find the more extreme examples - they don't make it up.

I'm not trying to justify what was done in those videos - cause i'm not at all - i'm also against the way they're treated here. But it's something to keep in mind.

 

[OrbWeaver]

Unfortunately, our slaughterhouses treat the animals horribly. The only reason that slaughterhouse in California got shut down earlier this year is because somehow those inhumane practices became public. But I can almost guarantee that slaughterhouses all over the US are doing the same thing.

It's sad, and I'd like to see some regulations put into place, but unfortunately, I doubt that's going to happen. I do NOT approve of animal abuse or neglect, but I am not going to restrict my diet because the cow I eat may have suffered.

As for the dog, snopes indicates that the circumstances surrounding the exhibit are unclear. However, if that dog WAS properly cared for, as one rumor claims, it would not look like that. I also find the claim of the dog "running away" to be highly suspicious. If the artist really wanted to make the statement he was supposedly making, why didn't he look for a better way to do so? Partner up with an animal rescue group and have them bring recently rescued animals in for "exhibit", and offer adoption opportunities for animals that have been rehabilitated, and opportunites for the animals they are rehabillitating.

Shock tactics certainly gain attention, but they gain both negative and positive attention. I'm disgusted at this "art" exhibit, regardless of the intentionality behind it. What's the saying? Oh, right. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

 

[Kenneth R.]

I sense a lot of vegans are participating in this discussion.

 

[Petethedrummer]

I sense a lot of vegans are participating in this discussion.

haha well i'm trying to be objective

 

[rockyracoon]

I sense a lot of vegans are participating in this discussion.

Or perhaps pet owners.

 

[JenniferLynn]

And you guys are assuming I'm a meat eater... the only meat you'll find in my house is tuna in a can.. oh wait, I've got some salmon in a can too...

And I didn't leave out the meat industry either..... But at the same token, people don't want to know how the meat gets put in the freezer - they just want it done... that great mentality of America 'I want it and I want it now'... don't give 'em the gory details, just make it happen...

And PETA's an f'n joke... seriously - they're more worried about jumpin' on a runway with a can of paint than bring the same kind of light/ attention to the meat industry.... I've gotten more info out of the Humane Society about the meat industry than PETA...

 

[OrbWeaver]

This is true. Most people do not associate the steak on their plate with something that once had a face. I do, and it doesn't bother me. But then, I'm a country girl who knew (and knows!) plenty of farmers, and who used to go deer hunting. I've been inside a deer processing plant, and watched Mr. Blakeman hack up Bambi for the hunters. It never bothered me, and to this day, if given a chance, I'll still watch with interest.

I also used to help my dad dress and skin squirrel and rabbits that we would be eating later on. Then we'd give what we didn't use to the dog, who absolutely loved it.

 

[Wyvern]

That son of a bitch represented my country. We were outraged here and petitions were made to ban the guy from the Bienal. Sadly some "avant-garde" fuckers decided it was art alright and kept the bastard going on. His point was that he was "protesting" because of the dead of two Nicaraguans attacked by guarding dogs (rottweillers) many months ago in here, as you can see the guy is a certified puke.

And I support Dark One idea totally.

There's something you can always count on the stupidity of mankind and its cruelty.

 

[Kimavir]

My god. Even PETA's website states that this guy did no wrong. I'm not going to link you, because people should take the time to google and a person's name before they sign petitions and issue death threats and other idiocies. I understood it when I had to explain reality to all of my hippie friends. But metalheads? You guys are supposed to be smarter than this.

 

[rockyracoon]

My god. Even PETA's website states that this guy did no wrong.

Oh, well I guess that settles it.

 

[Pellaz]

Yeah, if PETA did their research and exonerated this guy, then it pretty much does.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

As of April 21 2008, this is the latest info I found at peta.org. I see no mention of him being exhonorated. Since Kimavir, aka" Mr. Superior to all others in this thread" doesn't want to post a link to his side of the argument, I'll ask that anybody who has seen this "exhonoration" link it here. or shoot me a pm please.. Not trying to be a dick, but if you're going to represent one side of an argument, and just say the proof is there, just search for it, you're really not backing yourself up too well...

As a side bar, 1) I hate PETA for their stand on hunting & fishing, they're not exactly a perfect orginization themselves. Good intentions at times, bad execution in most...jmhfo

2) I like animals better than most people...

3) I believe as much of what The Guardian conjours up as much as I do The Weekly World News or The National Enquirer.

On to a c & p from Peta's blog:


PetLoversTips / CC
A lot of people have been writing in about a story related to a Costa Rican artist named Guillermo Vargas who has reportedly starved a dog as part of an art installation. The reason we’ve stayed quiet about this incident (in public, at least) is that if there is any truth at all to the allegations, the less publicity this man receives, the better. The best way to prevent desperate, ethically deficient “artists” from getting what they want is to ignore the perpetrators in public and prosecute them in private.

However, just so everyone is clear on this, there’s reason to believe that this may have been a stunt, and that some parts of this story (such as the starving of the dog) were actually fabricated for the sake of publicity. As this article in The Guardian notes,

“Juanita Bermúdez, director of the Códice Gallery, insisted [the dog] escaped after just one day. She said: ‘It was untied all the time except for the three hours the exhibition lasted and it was fed regularly with dog food [Vargas] himself brought in.’”
Whatever the cruel or weird game that Vargas is playing, if it turns out that he took this animal in and allowed her to go back out on the streets to fend for herself, he still needs to be held accountable for extreme cruelty to animals—but for the time being, the information is pretty patchy.

We’re currently investigating the incident, and I’ll update this blog if we get more information. In the meantime, whether Vargas intended it or not, this whole thing does provide an insight into human nature that will be worth considering once we’re able to look at the big picture: If we can muster up this degree of outrage about one incident of animal suffering, why are we any less horrified by the billions upon billions of similar or worse cases of abuse that we can personally help to prevent?

 

[lady_space]

My god. Even PETA's website states that this guy did no wrong. I'm not going to link you, because people should take the time to google and a person's name before they sign petitions and issue death threats and other idiocies. I understood it when I had to explain reality to all of my hippie friends. But metalheads? You guys are supposed to be smarter than this.

I like the assumption that no one looked any of this up... some of us certainly did, and I simply disagree with the statement that this is all a hoax. The jury's still out on that IMO.

I totally disagree with your first statement. I'd love to see where that site states any such thing, as I was unable to find that.

Shaye