Where does your kick and bass lay?

[Williamn]

Hello.

Im fighting a seeming never ending battle right now getting my kick and bass to gel well.
So to get a bit inspired I was wondering where everybody is laying their kick and bass in the spectrum ?

I have always heard that kick10 peaks at 65, but when I look at it it seems more like its 50-55 ?

My bass is at around 80-120 if im not mistaken.

Also how do you usual handle compression individual on the bass and kick ?


EDIT: Fuck me, mistyped the title !.. any mod wanna fix that ?. supposed to say bass and not pass.

 

[Seth Munson]

What I have done in the past and had best results with is this.

get that kick bumping at 80 Hz, HP it at 50.
HP the bass at 100 Hz

that way the low end of the bass still comes through but doesnt cloud up the lowend punch of the kick.
When I started doing this my masters became cleaner/louder and I started getting a far better mix response from other producers, bigger bands and even label owners.

but everyone does things differently and this is what has worked best for me

 

[Williamn]

What I have done in the past and had best results with is this.

get that kick bumping at 80 Hz, HP it at 50.
HP the bass at 100 Hz

that way the low end of the bass still comes through but doesnt cloud up the lowend punch of the kick.
When I started doing this my masters became cleaner/louder and I started getting a far better mix response from other producers, bigger bands and even label owners.

but everyone does things differently and this is what has worked best for me

Thank you very much for the helpfull post Seth !
I know it differs from person to person, but still its great once in a while to get some inspiration from other people to try something new and THEN decide if it works or not.

Take care

 

[masque-]

What I have done in the past and had best results with is this.

get that kick bumping at 80 Hz, HP it at 50.
HP the bass at 100 Hz

that way the low end of the bass still comes through but doesnt cloud up the lowend punch of the kick.
When I started doing this my masters became cleaner/louder and I started getting a far better mix response from other producers, bigger bands and even label owners.

but everyone does things differently and this is what has worked best for me

Thanks for the info. I always have trouble with this. I usually hp bass to 50hz and make a cut around 80hz for the kick to come through, but its still not as clear as i'd like

 

[JeffTD]

It doesn't work when there's a ton of fast double-kick parts, but on anything that uses mostly single-hits (and this can easily be automated on breakdowns or whatever has the faster kick sections), I'm still a HUGE advocate of sidechaining a compressor to take 2-3db off the bass track when the kick hits. Set the release so it's more of a pumping effect than an actual volume reduction, and you're good. I do this on rhythm guitar channels sometimes for more 'strummed' than 'picked' parts (chords v riffs) as well, but usually only shaving 1-2db off the top.

 

[DaveBlack]

Something that always works for me is trying a different tuning on the kick. Maybe just a couple notches higher or lower. Then of course your normal processing

 

[ahjteam]

depending on the speed of the song. If your kicks have like constant 16th notes at +200 bpm ala Dragonforce, it is wiser to put the bass lower than the kick, but if you are doing like something that has super slow drums like on Manowar's "Warriors of the World United", then give the kick the sub range.

PS: I edited the title

 

[DullElysium]

HAha. I first read "Where do you kick ass and bass play". I guess i'm tired. But maybe pararrel?compression will help. I haven't really tried this but it should make the bass line duck when the kick is played. I'm not really a specialist o his case but if that's done just slightly it might get your kick up without giving the pumping on the bass too much. Highpassing might be a better solution though.

EDIT: Should've read the previous posts first.Ssidechaining mentioned.

 

[Vinny]

Gah, Seth, that seems a bit extreme HP, eh?

 

[tempe]

I honestly think the biggest battle with this is getting the kick and bass in sync with eachother, so they are basically acting like one instrument providing the foundation for your mix. Once you have a nice pocketed bass track, everything just comes together that much easier. I personally like kick sitting below the bass in 90% of cases, as you don't really hear the fundamental out of a bass guitar, but you can really hear / feel it with the kick.

 

[The Front Studio]

I use sidechain compression on kick-bass relations. Even double kick parts but I only use a light amount of compression just to duck the bass. I also boost the kick post compression a little at what Freq it fits best and cut some of that freq in the bass.

But Seth I'm going to try out what you said, it would help out giving this mix I'm working on some clarity because the bass's too muddy at the moment.

 

[tempe]

Seth I just did the kick and bass thing, tip is don't use like a 24db highpass, use a 6 or 12. Oh man so much better. I was wondering why my ME was filtering so much sub.

 

[Seth Munson]

To be honest I am right there with Jeff. For most metal bands I will side chain the bass. I totally forget about doing it tho because thats something I do in the session setup and then dont really touch it again. And the past 5 bands I have worked on havent really had any really fast kick parts other than a random triplet here and there so I havent felt the need to do it.

Quick sample of a pre mix (already HP tho) I am working on with the kick at 50 and bass at 95
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11781470/Low End bounce.mp3

I really dont hear the bass lacking lowend at all and the kick still punches on my end.

 

[OneDaySky]

To be honest I am right there with Jeff. For most metal bands I will side chain the bass. I totally forget about doing it tho because thats something I do in the session setup and then dont really touch it again. And the past 5 bands I have worked on havent really had any really fast kick parts other than a random triplet here and there so I havent felt the need to do it.

Quick sample of a pre mix (already HP tho) I am working on with the kick at 50 and bass at 95
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11781470/Low End bounce.mp3

I really dont hear the bass lacking lowend at all and the kick still punches on my end.

Sounding really good Seth drums sound so clear, I can hear everything and it doesn't sound squashed to death. Good job dude

 

[ahjteam]

I once tried how far can you go with the high pass filtering thing without making everything sound totaly like ass and ended up at around 450hz 6dB/oct on guitars and then another one after that at 150hz 24dB/oct, but it made a bit of a build on the mud area, but since I wanted the guitars to have at least something in the low mids, I left it there.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338211/ahjteam/ahjteam_red_v04_active.mp3

 

[A.H.]

I usually compress the shit out of the bass and then HP around 80hz or so. My kick usually lies around 65hz-ish. Is there too much sub? I'm a total bass head and something think I put a bit too much bass into my metal/rock mixes. What do you guys think? I like the kick pumping a little bit as long as it doesn't interfere with everything else.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16210823/Big Ass Chorus Mix2.mp3

 

[Joshua Wickman]

Waves c6 is pretty amazing for side chaining a certain freq out of the bass when the kick hits.

 

[joeymusicguy]

choose your eq frequencies relative to the actual sound and the tuning. so you will want to subtract bad frequencies contained in the original sound of the drum / bass, and boost key frequencies that relate to the notes being played.

 

[Trevoire520]

What kind of settings are you guys using for your bass sidechain compression? I tried it a while back but I remember it distorting quite alot. Probably just had the attack and release too fast tbh.

 

[Seth Munson]

What kind of settings are you guys using for your bass sidechain compression? I tried it a while back but I remember it distorting quite alot. Probably just had the attack and release too fast tbh.

I just mess until it sounds good. I have gotten to the point where I have a few starting point presets (slower songs, faster, ect.) and I just slap it on and do a quick adjust for the particular mix I am on and it's usually good. I never have to drastically start from scratch, once you know how it works within your workflow it becomes pretty easy