Why do people do this?

[AngraRULES]

What bands should do, is whatever pleases them as musicians and as artists.

Bands owe fans nothing, when it comes to new releases. The creation and subsequent purchase of a CD is not a legally binding contract that obligates the artist to write music stylistically similar to initially purchased disc.

This was the most intelligent post in this thread so far. It even beats mine.

As someone else noted, it's not really a complex issue. I think bands often screw themselves by being disingenuous when describing new material. How many times have we read that a new release will be a return to a certain style, when clearly it isn't. Or a band stating this is our heaviest disc so far, when clearly it isn't. Why not just come out and say, this is a complete departure, when that's what it is?

Here's my reasoning as to why bands won't say that. If I am completely off, just disregard this.

I assume most bands (if not all) still have hopes that their new releases will sell very well. Band *A* has a new album coming out next month. Band *A* also has a decently established fanbase, which really seems to enjoy their previous efforts. If Band *A* says right off the bat that this album is in the same vein as the previous efforts, chances are the fans would skip the "let me try this out before I buy" stage, since they know the band's style, and purchase the album blindly.

On the other hand, if Band *A* says that the music is completely different, a lot of their fans would say "Shit, if it's different I think I may as well download it first to see if I like it. I am not gonna risk buying a $15 CD that I may not like." Chances are a lot of fans would illegally download the album first, and then maybe purchase it (if they like it).

Now put yourself in the band's shoes. The music market is horrible, they barely sell anything. What would you do? Can you blame them for not being honest as to the direction of the new material, considering how much money they lose every day from people illegally downloading their product?

 

[DuchessOfDork]

I'm so glad Blind Guardian evolved past their first album. >_>

 

[tenebre]

Never understood this mentality either. Out of any bands that I own not one of them hold a debut album as my favorite. (excluding side projects and supergroups)

oddly many of the people i met at PP 9 years ago (or other concerts for that matter) dont even appear to listen to metal anymore or at least not the same genres. So who knows. I think that mostly it comes down to peoples innate desire to be negative, which only increases on the internet.

There will always be some bands that change so much i lose interest and when genre crossing occurs I can understand that type of thought. But generally I think its the same old "your old sh!t was better" line.

 

[General Zod]

Here's my reasoning as to why bands won't say that. If I am completely off, just disregard this.

I assume most bands (if not all) still have hopes that their new releases will sell very well. Band *A* has a new album coming out next month. Band *A* also has a decently established fanbase, which really seems to enjoy their previous efforts. If Band *A* says right off the bat that this album is in the same vein as the previous efforts, chances are the fans would skip the "let me try this out before I buy" stage, since they know the band's style, and purchase the album blindly.

On the other hand, if Band *A* says that the music is completely different, a lot of their fans would say "Shit, if it's different I think I may as well download it first to see if I like it. I am not gonna risk buying a $15 CD that I may not like." Chances are a lot of fans would illegally download the album first, and then maybe purchase it (if they like it).

Now put yourself in the band's shoes. The music market is horrible, they barely sell anything. What would you do? Can you blame them for not being honest as to the direction of the new material, considering how much money they lose every day from people illegally downloading their product?

I suspect you're 100% correct as to why bands do it. And you're probably right, that it has short term gains. However, how many times can you trot out the same tired cliches about the new disc being heavier, faster, more melodic and just like your classic, before fans wise up? And at that point, all you're doing, is lying to your fans.

 

[mad_taffer]

I got into power metal because it was different from what I used to listen to in the 80's.
I don't hate 80's metal at all, but it's not why I started listening to Edguy or Sonata either.
I liked the faster speedier approach.
So, when Edguy put out Tinnitus Sanctus and went generic 80's hard rock...no i'm not going to like that.
And Sonata tried to go progressive? I'm not exactly sure what they are doing, but no i'm not going to like that either.
The reason I listened to both of these bands is gone now...they have developed into something I don't like.
I am also going to throw Kamelot in here, as I think their latest CD is mostly filler, and none of it caught my ear.
It saddens me that these bands that I found so exciting, have devolved into banality.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

I got into power metal because it was different from what I used to listen to in the 80's.
I don't hate 80's metal at all, but it's not why I started listening to Edguy or Sonata either.
I liked the faster speedier approach.
So, when Edguy put out Tinnitus Sanctus and went generic 80's hard rock...no i'm not going to like that.
And Sonata tried to go progressive? I'm not exactly sure what they are doing, but no i'm not going to like that either.
The reason I listened to both of these bands is gone now...they have developed into something I don't like.
I am also going to throw Kamelot in here, as I think their latest CD is mostly filler, and none of it caught my ear.
It saddens me that these bands that I found so exciting, have devolved into banality.

Actually, I somewhat agree with you. I feel similarly about those bands. I still like them, and I respect what they're doing, but nothing that Kamelot has recently done really caught my ear. And Sonata's last album disappointed me, because their earlier work was cheesily beautiful.

Where are my wolves, Tony!? Where!?

 

[mad_taffer]

Yeah,

I mean Sonata were great at the fast paced power metal epics, and man at those choruses. Then they tried to be all self-important and lost what made them fun to begin with. I feel the same way about Edguy, although I think that has more to do with Tobias and his attitude.
They excel at making this really good, speedy power metal and think...man we need to change. Let's look to the 80's for our inspiration and re-create that!
Why? Why would Tobias think that was a good idea?
Sex Fire Religion has got to be one of the worst songs i've ever heard in any genre.
Really Tobias??? How could they go from something like All the Clowns to that...or anything off of Hellfire Club.
How do bands just lose it like that?

 

[DuchessOfDork]

I was fairly disappointed at the new Avantasia CDs. Not because they're not good, mind you! They are good, they have some great cameos and great songs. I was just disappointed because the first Avantasia CDs were concept albums! They were rock operas, and they told a story! The new Avantasia CDs are more like.. "Tobias and Friends: The Album!" Still good, but I miss my cheesy power metal story songs.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I got into power metal because it was different from what I used to listen to in the 80's.
I don't hate 80's metal at all, but it's not why I started listening to Edguy or Sonata either.
I liked the faster speedier approach.
So, when Edguy put out Tinnitus Sanctus and went generic 80's hard rock...no i'm not going to like that.
And Sonata tried to go progressive? I'm not exactly sure what they are doing, but no i'm not going to like that either.
The reason I listened to both of these bands is gone now...they have developed into something I don't like.
I am also going to throw Kamelot in here, as I think their latest CD is mostly filler, and none of it caught my ear.
It saddens me that these bands that I found so exciting, have devolved into banality.

I think the problem with Edguy is pretty simple. As much as I love Avantasia, I think the aforementioned band is killing Edguy. Avantasia is basically Tobi's power metal band, whereas he's essentially trying to make Edguy his Scorpions. That's my opinion anyways.

I think I'm one of the rare people I guess on here that likes the new Sonata Arctica. I hate Junia but the new one I find to be pretty solid throughout.

 

[mad_taffer]

I think the problem with Edguy is pretty simple. As much as I love Avantasia, I think the aforementioned band is killing Edguy. Avantasia is basically Tobi's power metal band, whereas he's essentially trying to make Edguy his Scorpions. That's my opinion anyways.

I think I'm one of the rare people I guess on here that likes the new Sonata Arctica. I hate Junia but the new one I find to be pretty solid throughout.

I think that Tobias' approach has watered down both bands. I mean I like some of the newer Avantasia, but the speed is gone. I would argue that the majority of The Scarecrow and the two newest discs are nothing but hard rock. I'd almost say he's abandoned metal completely. The only difference is that the Avantasia songs have a more operatic structure than the latest EdGuy stuff.

 

[MartinW]

The guys in Sonata Arctica have said, several times, that it was either changing styles or stop playing. Those were the two alternatives. Tony couldn't stand writing the same thing album after album after album. I, for one, am glad that they chose to continue, since I love their last album (as do many other people). They are showing artistic integrity, which is going to pay off in the long run, when the Power Metal Warriors™ have calmed down.

Bands owe fans nothing, when it comes to new releases.

I don't get how this is so hard to understand. I really don't. It should be self-evident.

 

[SkiBumMSP]

The guys in Sonata Arctica have said, several times, that it was either changing styles or stop playing. Those were the two alternatives. Tony couldn't stand writing the same thing album after album after album. I, for one, am glad that they chose to continue, since I love their last album (as do many other people). They are showing artistic integrity, which is going to pay off in the long run, when the Power Metal Warriors™ have calmed down.

I so agree! I guess I never understood all the pissing and moaning about Sonata Arctica. I personally thought UniaandThe Days of Grays were both awesome albums. Hell, I even told Tony in person that I really enjoyed these albums. And yes, I still very much spin and enjoy their earlier releases, especially Silence and Reckoning Night. I seriously wonder how much of this is truly people not liking a bands directions or the perhaps the fans themselves refuse to broaden their own horizons.

And yes, I do agree with 'Zod's statement that a band really does not owe a fan anything.

I also think 'Magius' pretty much summed it up in his post. Pretty much a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of scenario.

 

[nomisofsiman]

What bands should do, is whatever pleases them as musicians and as artists.

Surprisingly, considering what I said earlier in this thread I would have to agree completely with this. Bands don't owe fans anything. If they do it for the art, that's what's more important.

From a fan's point of view though, I do understand people bitching at bands when they do stray.

 

[nailz]

I'm guessing the creation of this thread was in direct response to the Tank thread.

Incorrect.

Anyways, this is actually a complex issue...etc etc...

I agree. If a band like Iron Savior decided to no longer sound like Iron Savior, it would be a jarring surprise, but if a band that has continually evolved, throughout say, 6 albums, why would 'fans' still be clamouring for the sound of the first... it was 5 albums ago. It's clear the band has no intentions of repeating themselves, why harp on it?

 

[AngraRULES]

I just think metal fans in general need to learn that they're not going to change a band's direction because of their bitching. People really just need to stop whining every time we talk about Edguy or Sonata Arctica. "Oh they used to be so great when they were all about the power metal and blah blah blah." Okay, you made your point. Now get over it and find another band to listen to instead.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

I think that Tobias' approach has watered down both bands. I mean I like some of the newer Avantasia, but the speed is gone. I would argue that the majority of The Scarecrow and the two newest discs are nothing but hard rock. I'd almost say he's abandoned metal completely. The only difference is that the Avantasia songs have a more operatic structure than the latest EdGuy stuff.

I agree with you. I also agree with the fact that artists owe nobody anything than the pleasure of their art. Avantasia lately is very much hard rock, but it's still good. I enjoyed the last 3 CDs once I hammered it into my brain that they weren't going to be singing about a princess and shit. XD

 

[adaher]

Bands owe fans nothing, when it comes to new releases

No, they don't, but most bands do like money. As I said, at some point a band ceases to be just a few guys making music and becomes a business, often an incorporated business. At that point, the songwriters are equivalent to a corporate R&D department working on the next version of their product. And I think at some level most bands where the music is their career and they no longer have day jobs realize this. It's their business now as much as it is their passion.

 

[adaher]

I just think metal fans in general need to learn that they're not going to change a band's direction because of their bitching. People really just need to stop whining every time we talk about Edguy or Sonata Arctica. "Oh they used to be so great when they were all about the power metal and blah blah blah." Okay, you made your point. Now get over it and find another band to listen to instead.
__________________

Well, the bitching does serve a purpose. If the bands experience a decline in popularity, at least if fans are bitching they know why. When the fans stop bitching, it means they've moved on and don't care about you anymore, which is arguably a lot worse than bitching. And that's happened to a lot of bands over the years.

I suspect Sonata and Edguy will be returning to form pretty soon. Fans don't mind a change in sound for the most part when it's actually an evolution of the band. But in the case of those two bands, they changed their sound just because they were tired of the old sound, not because they had anything particularly creative or new in mind. they just lost interest in speedy songs, so in Sonata's case, they played around with more tempo changes and in Edguy's case, they went hard rock. Neither band can compete with the kings of those genres, so they are kinda stuck with their power metal roots if they want to be relevant.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I agree. If a band like Iron Savior decided to no longer sound like Iron Savior, it would be a jarring surprise, but if a band that has continually evolved, throughout say, 6 albums, why would 'fans' still be clamouring for the sound of the first... it was 5 albums ago. It's clear the band has no intentions of repeating themselves, why harp on it?

Totally. Like I said if a band has shown they want to continue to expand, people do need to let it go. I can't stand fans that keep requesting a band to be like their first album or two when they have a storied career. Maiden is the one band that especially comes to mind here.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I suspect Sonata and Edguy will be returning to form pretty soon. Fans don't mind a change in sound for the most part when it's actually an evolution of the band. But in the case of those two bands, they changed their sound just because they were tired of the old sound, not because they had anything particularly creative or new in mind. they just lost interest in speedy songs, so in Sonata's case, they played around with more tempo changes and in Edguy's case, they went hard rock. Neither band can compete with the kings of those genres, so they are kinda stuck with their power metal roots if they want to be relevant.

This is some major wishful thinking. I really don't see Edguy going full-on power metal again as long as he has Avantasia by his side. If he ends Avantasia, then I could see it. Maybe he'll go back to a Rocket Ride and possibly a Hellfire-type sound, but I doubt he goes any further back. Sonata still has songs that fit with their old sound with some new directions in my opinion. Unia is totally different but the newer one still is very Sonata-like to me.