Why do people hate COB?

[SaatananPieniSisar]

That's what I have heard before. I haven't used a program like that myself, or even tried to compose music for that matter.

But with all the comments here about it, I was wondering how many had actually tried making music with a program like that.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

How does composing music on a computer software differ from writing sheet music, except that the notes are on the screen and not on a sheet? Your argument is retarded.

I was talking about the differences of playing guitar and doing computer music like trance. Shouldn't be too difficult to understand.

Maybe learning to make proper computer music is easier than mastering a guitar, but it's still demanding technically to pull off the whole process. Or so I've understood, and that's why I never put dedication to it.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Joonas is retarded. He doesn't know anything about music.

He'll buy and album with a "COB" logo on it just because its COB...and every other band with a similar style.

He doesn't hear if its good or not, he has no clue, he can tell if its the style he wants to dress and act like though. As you can tell, neo-classical douchebag.

Ah the grudge and the bitterness. So many faults in other people you see.
Well trust me, one day everyone will learn to be humble, everyone.

 

[Necroraven]

Just wondering...

Any of you guys ever used a computer to make music? Before commenting on this topic, it might be wise to try it.. Then you'll be able to tell what's easy to compose digitally and what's not..

I've done both, and there's really no difference in composing, the only difference is in the sound, which can come from a guitar, computer sound bank or anything.

This I've done 100% with computer (except the composing of course, which I've done inside my head).

http://tinyurl.com/6lc2k8p

And this is composed in a same way (inside my head), but it's played by a band and no computers used (except the recording program of course).

http://tinyurl.com/6c4qm9f

I was talking about the differences of playing guitar and doing computer music like trance. Shouldn't be too difficult to understand.

Maybe learning to make proper computer music is easier than mastering a guitar, but it's still demanding technically to pull off the whole process. Or so I've understood, and that's why I never put dedication to it.

They only difference is, that the other guy can play guitar, and the other guy can not. It's got nothing to do with creativity. Most black metal is played by techically not-so-talented guys, but their musical talent can be a lot greater than some tech-death nerd's, who is a guitar wizard, but has zero talent in composing songs.

If Alexi wouldn't be able to play such fast solos, would it make COB's melodies and riffs any worse? No. Bottom line: Techical skill hasn't got a shit to do with creativity.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

The point I was trying to make is with a computer music programme you can form a piano solo so technical and fast and so crazy no real pianist could ever actually play it on a piano, but does that make you cool? No.

 

[CliffBurton]

The point I was trying to make is with a computer music programme you can form a piano solo so technical and fast and so crazy no real pianist could ever actually play it on a piano, but does that make you cool? No.

Does being able to play technically fast make you cool? Yes, if you are surrounded by wanks. There is so much more to music than speed and "crazyness". Being able to play fast is so useless if you aren't playing well (EG Dragonforce).

Creativity and interesting music > Technical playing ability. Otherwise we would all be worshiping Micheal Angelo Batio, who I think is a HORRIBLE guitarist.

Just as many people make boring repetitive techno as they do shitty poorly played metal.

 

[Froze]

I was talking about the differences of playing guitar and doing computer music like trance. Shouldn't be too difficult to understand.

Maybe learning to make proper computer music is easier than mastering a guitar, but it's still demanding technically to pull off the whole process. Or so I've understood, and that's why I never put dedication to it.

So what you meant to say is that you're actually comparing genres and by "computer music" you're referring to just trance music. That's some pretty tenous generalization right there. As if you couldn't make for example metal music with those same tools. Jari Mäenpää is making the new Wintersun album using Cubase and VST-instruments (software synths) so I guess Jari is just a computer nerd and has no real musical talent.

 

[snowy]

I've never read something so wrong in years.

The computer IS the instrument. Yngwie is a technically fast musician for spending hours and hours plugging away at the same patterns and chords... any asshole could do that... but I would never consider him a musical genious. He's a talented guitarist but all he does is rip off classical music, and play well known sequences of notes over and over...albiet, he does it fast.

Using the computer as an instrument is the same thing. It takes years of practice to become familiar with what every parameter in the sound wave, and how the final product will sound when you start to alter them. I dont see how composing something on a computer is different than composing on paper... If you trained yourself properly you know what the chords and intervals will sound like as you write them.

You obviously never really bothered to professionally study music, or if you have, you can't grasp the concept of harmonization, chord and song structure. Its basically all the same, the only difference is in a band you have to work with other peope...but we're talking about CoB here so no, you dont have that.


P.S. Many musicians write in Guitar Pro, how is that at all different?

If you dont like electronic music thats fine, but to say its simple and easy to make is pretty ballsy seeing as you'll never make anything that will ever be popular...in any genre of music.

You are the man, man.

Actually its also pretty cool to know that whole synthesizer stuff (wave forms/cut off freq. and all the other different parameter).

Of course you don't have to play it by yourself so it seems totally easy but I guess sticking together shitty midi regions using shitty sounds isnt what Cliff's talking about here.

 

[snowy]

I was talking about the differences of playing guitar and doing computer music like trance. Shouldn't be too difficult to understand.

DIOS MIO, my flamenco-guitar can only be played spanish style.

 

[Rhia]

Does being able to play technically fast make you cool? Yes, if you are surrounded by wanks. There is so much more to music than speed and "crazyness". Being able to play fast is so useless if you aren't playing well (EG Dragonforce).

Definitely true, and every musician will tell you that in the end the slow pieces are always more difficult to play well than the fast ones, one reason being that it's easier for the audience to spot mistakes in a slow pieces than in a really fast one.

 

[Necroraven]

Definitely true, and every musician will tell you that in the end the slow pieces are always more difficult to play well than the fast ones, one reason being that it's easier for the audience to spot mistakes in a slow pieces than in a really fast one.

True, but the real reason why slow stuff is "harder" to play is, that slow stuff needs emotion and feeling to it to sound good, contrary to shredding solos which are (usually) just mechanical executions and require just to be played "right". Take Gary Moore's The Loner for example. It's techically not too hard song, but if you put your just-another-Yngwie/Alexi/Batio/Loomis/whatever copycat-youtube-guitarist to play it, it sounds fucking shit and robotic compared to how Moore or some other actually good guitarist plays it.

And yes, I'm not saying, that playing fast/shredding sucks or, that slow playing is always better, but a good guitarist can play BOTH.

 

[Rhia]

Yeah, that too. I had difficulties finding the right terms to explain that, as those slow songs always have something very personal for me.
And you're last point is also very true, too.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Yes, I agree with everything said in this thread.

Of course musical creativity is more important than playing patterns fast. As for the whole computer music thing, isn't that more about creating music that sounds good instead of coding impossible guitar solos... I didn't refer to Guitar Pro etc when talking about computer music. Most of the people making computer music don't know shit about music theory anyway. And yes 90% of music in every genre is nothing spectacular, too many copycats and other uncreative people.

I never presumed to understand much or to be musically educated. I rely on the bits I've learned along the way, common sense and just my opinion.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

And yes, I'm not saying, that playing fast/shredding sucks or, that slow playing is always better, but a good guitarist can play BOTH.

And obviously the essence is that a complete musician can play fast, slow AND with the sense of purpose and not just shred away. I like (listening to) shredding too but it can be a show-off trap at times that leads people to think this guy is a great player. And I'm not a COB asslicker, my opinion is the solos on Relentless Reckless Forever focus too much on technical shredding instead of actually adding something musical to the song. But it's not just the solo, but what's going on with the rhythm guitar, keys, drums simultaneously.

I think the term technical has been carried along in this discussion and been understood in two different ways, when talking about technical with guitar and technical with computers.

 

[snowy]

As for the whole computer music thing, isn't that more about creating music that sounds good instead of coding impossible guitar solos...

Again, you say that speed is the most important thing. Same with technique, if you write shitty songs all the crazy guitar shit wont help you. Complex songs = best songs? Hell no.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

You completely misunderstood the sentence. My favourite type of music is any atmospheric / balladic / emotional / sorrowful / beautiful / deep melody, say a female vocal melody you can play on a keyboard easily. When I listen to stuff like that I can lay frozen for an hour letting my mind travel with the music. So call me emo if you will but don't think I'm this neo-classical wanker faggot, lol.

For example this, I just came across as I started this game:



I thought they'd completely stopped making emotional music to games long ago.

Needless to say I'm a very versatily guy, I like all sorts of stuff, from the most emotional to the most aggressive end, as long as it stirs the feelings. With music such as COB of course the kickass speed and complexity is naturally a desired extra, but not the most important thing. Brutal solos are exciting but they don't influence your mind so it's a no-contest.

 

[snowy]

You completely misunderstood the sentence. My favourite type of music is any atmospheric / balladic / emotional / sorrowful / beautiful / deep melody, say a female vocal melody you can play on a keyboard easily. When I listen to stuff like that I can lay frozen for an hour letting my mind travel with the music. So call me emo if you will but don't think I'm this neo-classical wanker faggot, lol.

For example this, I just came across as I started this game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOOIi_b5e8

I thought they'd completely stopped making emotional music to games long ago. Well it lasted for a very short while.

Needless to say I'm a very versatily guy, I like all sorts of stuff, from the most emotional to the most aggressive end, as long as it stirs the feelings. With music such as COB of course the kickass speed and complexity is naturally a desired extra, but not the most important thing. Brutal solos are exciting but they don't influence your mind so it's a no-contest.

I dont call you emo, I quite get it, I tend to enjoy music which is awesome for tripping or laying on bed/foor n mind traveling but everybody has different tastes or perceptions what kind of music that might be (in my case total different from yours).

 

[mtlfrm]

Why do ppl hate COB?
Last time i checked they were touring all over the world playing to huge crowds and Allu himself being voted (BY PPL!) to worlds best metal guitarists etctec..
My point: Dont get provoked by the morons ''hating COB'' on this forum or in any other.
They have huge international fanbase so u just let the hater hate cuz theres no band without haters

I was a really big fan of COB until I recently met Alexi. I went to say hi and he fobbed me off. He came across as really arrogant. Yeah he is talented but you still need to treat your fan base well!

 

[Stoggaf]

I was a really big fan of COB until I recently met Alexi. I went to say hi and he fobbed me off. He came across as really arrogant. Yeah he is talented but you still need to treat your fan base well!

Don't judge too quickly He's only a human after all, maybe he was pissed off or tired or drunk or something. As far as I know, Alexi treats his fan base pretty well.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I was a really big fan of COB until I recently met Alexi. I went to say hi and he fobbed me off. He came across as really arrogant. Yeah he is talented but you still need to treat your fan base well!

Maybe he was in a hurry and he probably felt bad too when he realized he replied impolite to you, it happens in life.