Why doesn´t Opeth Jam?

[opeth_evan]

oh god, you like phish, you don't deserve our name

hahahah. common response around here. i think most of you don't like them because they're SO mainstream(not really). they're quite creative and talented musicians, especially in their early days. and I enjoy the element of surprise. I'm sure you've heard it a million times before, but you never know what you're going to get with a phish show or even song. unlike most metal when you can guess 80% of their setlists and they play the tracks exactly the same as on the CD.

Not that that is necessarily bad, but its just fun to listen to something thats actually being created at that exact point in time.. and I'm just using phish as an example.. there's TONS of other great jazz and jam bands that do the same.

And.. The story of Gamehenge is intriguing.

btw.. im guessing if phish was around in the 70's, most of you would like them because they'd be so cool and retro. since so many of you seem to like the dead, allman bros, pink floyd, etc. but since they're the poster band of the current hippie/anti-metal scene they're much easier to hate. if you have listened to quite a bit of phish and don't like it.. that doesn't apply to you and thats fine, but I'm guessing most of you haven't given them the time of day.

 

[deliverance]

i've never heard phish.

 

[Profanity]

Phish write some quite intellectual music. I especially like the dynamics in their music.

 

[sweet majestic darkness]

The Dead are the best jammers hands down. Only jam band I find remotely appealing.

I would have to agree with that. Dead stuff on cd isn't the greatest, but when you get to the live jam stuff, there is nothing more awesome then Dead improv.

 

[sweet majestic darkness]

The Alman Brothers jam fucking hard.

This is true, also. Man, I've only seen them live once and it was years ago.

 

[Arnold Layne]

Im surprised PT doesnt jam on stage, kinda dissapointing really.

 

[Arnold Layne]

I love his solo over The masters apprentices, if he do that over someone elses song, what could he do on his own.

He seems pretty reliant on computer equipment, which might stop him a little.

 

[Jon Snow]

The Alman Brothers jam fucking hard.

The Allman Brothers - Live at the Fillmore East is the best live album ever. Duane Allman and Dickey Betts had amazing guitar interplay and chemistry. If you haven't heard it I definitely recommend checking it out.

 

[Stimuli]

Anyone who hates Phish either hasn't listened to them enough (watch the "IT" dvd) or obviously doesn't play an instrument and knows absolutly nothing about great music and the beauty of making music...

Anyone who has ever played an instrument and has had a musical relationship with other players (please, no stupid gay jokes) would not say that jamming is stupid, or boring... they would tell you that the most creative and exciting musical moments they have ever experienced occurred during a spontanious jam...but if you don't play an instrument then you would not understand this - in which case - your opinion does not even matter...

BTW... I'm not one to think that technical and theoretical proficiency are the only ingredients to making good music... but for the record... the players in Phish are some of the best in the world...FAR FAR better than Opeth (in terms of sheer musical knowledge and playing ability - which does not take songwriting into account).

 

[Jon Snow]

Anyone who hates Phish either hasn't listened to them enough (watch the "IT" dvd) or obviously doesn't play an instrument and knows absolutly nothing about great music and the beauty of making music...

Anyone who has ever played an instrument and has had a musical relationship with other players (please, no stupid gay jokes) would not say that jamming is stupid, or boring... they would tell you that the most creative and exciting musical moments they have ever experienced occurred during a spontanious jam...but if you don't play an instrument then you would not understand this - in which case - your opinion does not even matter...

BTW... I'm not one to think that technical and theoretical proficiency are the only ingredients to making good music... but for the record... the players in Phish are some of the best in the world...FAR FAR better than Opeth (in terms of sheer musical knowledge and playing ability - which does not take songwriting into account).

Yeah, but you're listening to Train of Thought so every point you just tried to make is severely discredited. Mike is a better song writer than Trey whateverhisnameis by far.

 

[Stimuli]

Mike is indeed a better songwriter - one of my favourites...

so much hate for Dream Theater on this forum... I know Labrie is a dork but that doesn't mean the musicians suck all of a sudden...

 

[Botfly]

In all actuallity, and sarcasm aside, yes, jamming does takes much musical knowledge to master (if you wanna do it well), and can be a fun, relieve you from musical pressure and what not, and if you're good at jamming, hey, maybe people will really enjoy it. Although, calling it creative is obviously speculative.

For some, "creativity" may be appreciated when minute detail and intricacy and thought are put into work. For other's, it can be when bands just freely play what ever the fuck and do it well. Because it is never the same, this "unpredictability" and random human ideas at a moment in time is the essence of creativity. What criteria best suits your tastes

Also, certain musicians write in certain ways. For instance, Mikael Akerfeldt carefully plans his opuses with detail and probably spends a good chunk of time perfecting them, arranging them, etc... Where as jam bands write shit on the fly. BUT, there is obviously where musicians tastes come in. Mikael is either the type who can only think when in solitude and tinkering and reflecting or he prefers his unorthodox songwriting to anything. Because jam bands are limited only to unpredictable rhythm, key and maybe even time change, Mikael probably prefers the careful arranging because, unlike jamming, you can full out change from peaceful acoustics to the most pulverizing and devistating riffs to man basically whenever you want.

This being said, no matter how talented you are, jamming blows. The fact you can be famous for effortlessly writing songs in front of people is despicable. Hard work, time, thought and dedication should be more rewarded than pulling your extensive knowledge of notes, scales, and rythm out of your ass.

 

[Stimuli]

Hey at least you understand what makes jamming appealling to poeple, you just dont like it personally. and thats cool... but i disagree with you on your last point...

Doesn't Trey Anastasio also deserve respect and success for pouring his entire life into music and the guitar - to gain the ability to make great sounding music off the top of his head...

 

[Botfly]

i disagree with you on your last point...

.

 

[Risquit]

not too many metal bands jam or improvise.. because its too structered usually.. thats why it works so well with jazz and jam bands, because they're a lot more loose and there's room to move around.

favourite bands that jam and improvise: umphrey's mcgee, medeski martin & wood, the dead, allman bros, SCI, and phish

if you're interested in reading about umphrey's mcgee very interesting jam technique or just reading about one in general. I HIGHLY recommend you read this and I HIGHLY recommend you check a few of their songs out if you like that sort of thing:

http://www.umphreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23093

Dude, if you like all those bands, you have to see Robert Randolph live!

 

[Botfly]

also, here's the major flaw in your argument: you're assuming that musicians who rely on improvisation DON'T put hard work, time, thought and dedication into their music.

I already knew this, because I'm sure as hell it takes years and years to condition yourself to learn to do this, especially if you have one guy changing keys, you have to immediately recognize what key, and then procceed to keep going. It is apparent to master such things takes much dedication, time, effort, practice, etc... That last statement you quoted was blatant contradiction of my point for poor comedic effect.

I think I'm going to cut down on the sarcasm and bashful humor, we already have gunhaver for that, plus moonies already deleted at least 15 of my posts in the last three days

That being said, I have to admit I don't exactly enjoy jam bands, simply because as unpredictable the music is going to get is key and rhythm changes. It bores me to hell, but I do have tremendous respect for such talented musicians being 100% dedicated to mastering this impromptu art-form. Personally, I enjoy music that is really far out and bi-polaresque like Opeth, stuff full of melody, stuff that's soothing and mellow, and incorperation of the unorthodox. And Jazz. These are what arouse me most (In a completely plutonic way), and what personally makes for truely enjoyable music.

 

[opeth_evan]

Dude, if you like all those bands, you have to see Robert Randolph live!

oh man, robert randolph rips...one of the best slide guitarists ever period. i missed seeing them to see primus instead at bonnaroo 2004. which i don't regret, but it was unfortunate. check out The Word if you haven't.. its robert randolph, john medeski, and the north mississippi allstar guys.. download their bonnaroo 2005 set at bt.etree.org

 

[Botfly]

you don't really enjoy jamming, but you enjoy jazz.

I enjoy all those colorful jazz notes and jazz scales, has an appealing sound, not so much the improvised jazz wanking with the million mile an hour fret board noodling. I'm talking more like "For Absent Friends." That mellow, acoustic jazz with a really clean lead guitar sound is the best.

 

[Risquit]

oh man, robert randolph rips...one of the best slide guitarists ever period. i missed seeing them to see primus instead at bonnaroo 2004. which i don't regret, but it was unfortunate. check out The Word if you haven't.. its robert randolph, john medeski, and the north mississippi allstar guys.. download their bonnaroo 2005 set at bt.etree.org

Thanks, mang. I'm all over that set!

 

[Nuk3m]

well what can i say, you clearly have no idea what jazz is

how so?