Why is album popularity such a bad thing, even in the underground?

[JayKeeley]

I'm just curious, but even within the confines of the underground, why is a once popular album eventually automatically dismissed by most?

After a small hiatus, I started to get back into metal around the mid-90's, and EVERYONE was going on about "Slaughter of the Soul". I bought it, liked it, and thought it was pretty worthy of all the hype especially since I [personally] hadn't heard anything like that since, say, Slayer just a few years earlier.

But now as time goes on, you can pretty much pick out the popular albums of the last 10 years and see that people have moved on already, and now tend to hate the releases. Some general examples:

In Flames - The Jester Race
At the Gates - Slaugter of the Soul
Opeth - My Arms or anything for that matter
Soilwork - A Predators Portrait
Judas Priest - Demolition

At the time of their release, MOST people really liked these albums, no? But now, it almost seems almost trendy to dismiss them. Why?

I can understand the boredom towards a genre saturation (such as melo-death), but does that mean that these particular albums should be at the brunt of that disdain?

And interestingly enough, this tends to happen much more with the music that was released in the 90's and onwards. I put this entirely down to the fan base that emerged in the 90's. Maybe it's an age thing? Certainly, the 80's metal scene seems to be either (a) loved to this day by almost everyone, or (b) hated entirely, but primarily by people who aren't old enough to respect Slayer, Death, Maiden, Queensryche, from that original timeframe.

[/devil's advocate]

Discuss. :Spin:

 

[NAD]

Easily led automatons is my answer, because I've never understood the concept.

This happened to me 10 years ago or so, Hot Girl Big Tits played me some Marilyn Manson because she thought I would like them, which was about 2 months prior to this conversation:

NAD: "Hey I picked up that Marilyn Manson CD you showed me, I really like it!"
HGBT: "Yeah I don't like them anymore because everyone else does."
NAD: "...you have Big Tits, Hot Girl."

Replace that last part with a confused look on my face w/o saying anything and that is what really happened.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

I only dislike it if the success goes to the band's head, and they start making crappy music, such as In Flames. I remember vividly buying "Clayman" for the first time. I had been following the band more or less since "Lunar Strain", and suddenly, this piece of crap came out. Heart-breaking.

As for "Slaughter", I don't dislike it because it's popular, I dislike because it's a really bad compared to the band's earlier efforts.

 

[JayKeeley]

Heh, well I can understand if your tastes change or that you just grow tired of said release, but what I've NEVER understood is how you can go from love -> hate. Maybe it's just me.

Granted, I don't listen to The Jester Race anymore, but there is no way in hell that I can honestly say it's a *bad* album. On the contrary, it's phenomenal!! It is a milestone in metal history, and yes, melo-death metal helped put metal back on the map.

But I get the impression that people now say they don't like it just because lots of other people do.

 

[JayKeeley]

I only dislike it if the success goes to the band's head, and they start making crappy music, such as In Flames.

Sure but the *music* is locked in history. Once recorded and released, it is sealed within a vacuum as such. No matter what In Flames do today, nobody can change what music exists on The Jester Race (as example).

Are you saying that because you don't like the band (or their motives) TODAY that you would take that frustration out on their EARLIER albums? Aren't you just short changing yourself (aka cutting off your nose to spite your face)?

 

[speed]

It is a interesting phenomenom. Perhaps the underground metal fans are following the present culture in which anything good and of any value is somewhat obscure or understood by very few. That just seems to be the way the world works these days. Everything has become so specialized, one has to commit ones life to something or some form of art for it to be any good.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Hey, I, for one, still love melo-death! Eucharist, early At the Gates, Dark Tranquillity, the Crown, early Arch Enemy, early In Flames, it's all good! Only bands I know of that I absolutely detest is The Haunted and Soilwork.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Sure but the *music* is locked in history. Once recorded and released, it is sealed within a vacuum as such. No matter what In Flames do today, nobody can change what music exists on The Jester Race (as example).

Are you saying that because you don't like the band (or their motives) TODAY that you would take that frustration out on their EARLIER albums? Aren't you just short changing yourself (aka cutting off your nose to spite your face)?

No, no, no no! Still love the early stuff! Only retards judge bands early material based on the new. Same with people that let previously golden material be spoiled by new rotten material.

 

[Black Winter Day]

I think Huysmans said it best in his famous novel A Rebours:

"He felt the same about his Rembrandts, which he examined now and then on the quiet; and it is of course true that, just as the loveliest melody in the world becomes unbearably vulgar once the public start humming it and the barrel-organs playing it, so the work of art that appeals to charlatans, endears itself to fools, and is not content to arouse the enthusiasm of a few connoisseurs, is thereby polluted in the eyes of the initiate and becomes commonplace, almost repulsive.

"This sort of promiscuous admiration was in fact one of the most painful thorns in his flesh, for unaccountable vogues had utterly spoilt certain books and pictures for him that he had once held dear; confronted with the approbation of the mob, he always ended up discovering some hitherto imperceptible blemish, and promptly rejected them, at the same time wondering whether his flair was not deserting him, his taste getting blunted."


I just typed all that out. Score.

 

[JayKeeley]

What about "Slaughter of the Soul"? That's an important release, and it was certainly the first ATG album I heard. I grew tired of it really quick, but it's hard to deny that it's a great release (all in itself).

Although, I personally think it pales next to something like "Reign in Blood", but I figured that it was just me because I had heard it first and plus I have the whole nostalgia thing going on with Slayer. Not sure what people would think today in a "RiB vs SotS" matchup.

 

[JayKeeley]

I think Huysmans said it best in his famous novel A Rebours:

"He felt the same about his Rembrandts, which he examined now and then on the quiet; and it is of course true that, just as the loveliest melody in the world becomes unbearably vulgar once the public start humming it and the barrel-organs playing it, so the work of art that appeals to charlatans, endears itself to fools, and is not content to arouse the enthusiasm of a few connoisseurs, is thereby polluted in the eyes of the initiate and becomes commonplace, almost repulsive.

"This sort of promiscuous admiration was in fact one of the most painful thorns in his flesh, for unaccountable vogues had utterly spoilt certain books and pictures for him that he had once held dear; confronted with the approbation of the mob, he always ended up discovering some hitherto imperceptible blemish, and promptly rejected them, at the same time wondering whether his flair was not deserting him, his taste getting blunted."


I just typed all that out. Score.

That is brilliant. Fucking pompous as hell, but completely poignant.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

"Slaughter of the Soul" sounds to me like a crippled At the Gates. All the energy, creativity and technicality is simply gone...

 

[Evil_Legend]

I notice this too. If too many people like something, then some people move on an pretend to be more underground.

I like a lot of mainstream metal albums, mostly 80's. I like some newer mainstream albums too, like OPETH.. great muscians IMO. Melodic Death is a genre I never really took to... Slaughter Of The Soul is ok... I respect it for what it is... which is another genre path, but I don't care for the whole genre for the most part, so.....

 

[J.]

just as the loveliest melody in the world becomes unbearably vulgar once the public start humming it and the barrel-organs playing it, so the work of art that appeals to charlatans, endears itself to fools, and is not content to arouse the enthusiasm of a few connoisseurs, is thereby polluted in the eyes of the initiate and becomes commonplace, almost repulsive.

Perfect.

 

[NAD]

"He felt the same about his Rembrandts, which he examined now and then on the quiet; and it is of course true that, just as the loveliest melody in the world becomes unbearably vulgar once the public start humming it and the barrel-organs playing it, so the work of art that appeals to charlatans, endears itself to fools, and is not content to arouse the enthusiasm of a few connoisseurs, is thereby polluted in the eyes of the initiate and becomes commonplace, almost repulsive.

"This sort of promiscuous admiration was in fact one of the most painful thorns in his flesh, for unaccountable vogues had utterly spoilt certain books and pictures for him that he had once held dear; confronted with the approbation of the mob, he always ended up discovering some hitherto imperceptible blemish, and promptly rejected them, at the same time wondering whether his flair was not deserting him, his taste getting blunted."

Remember how I used to really hate Nietzsche? This dude just filled that gap. What a weak willed fool.

OH NOESSS TEH PUBLIC LYKKES MY FAVORTE BEER I'M DIFFERENT!11 I'M UNIKKE!11 I HAVE TO HATES IT NOW!!!!!111

*gag*

 

[NAD]

I think it's, you know, a book ABOUT someone... A fictional character? :Smug:

Well then I hate Sherlock Holmes then.

 

[unhinged]

In Flames - The Jester Race
At the Gates - Slaugter of the Soul
Opeth - My Arms or anything for that matter
Soilwork - A Predators Portrait
Judas Priest - Demolition

[/devil's advocate]

never liked any of those to start with
at the gates are ok, haven't heard that one though

but for arguements sake I listen to loads of obscure shit that most people would find to be just noise / pretentious, naked city / phantomsmasher etc

but I really like marilyn manson and don't care who knows it


I think its natural to go off stuff sometimes and some instantly likeable music can seem utterly purile after a while too

but people who follow the only the obscure and underground cool is best
are generally wankers anyway

 

[Tribal Praise]

I think this occurs most with the younger generation that are just spreading their wings and starting to appreciate music. Being of this younger generation, I witness this phenomenon on a daily basis. However, I believe it is because the younger generation, or most of the uninformed anyway, have this bizarre belief that music leads to some kind of social status. Sure, it's fun to joke about; "You like 'Pale Folklore'. That album is cool. Therefore, you are cool." But I do think this very mindset has worked it's way into many young heads. Perhaps it's this way for others as well?

 

[Demilich]

I believe it is because the younger generation, or most of the uninformed anyway, have this bizarre belief that music leads to some kind of social status. Sure, it's fun to joke about; "You like 'Pale Folklore'. That album is cool. Therefore, you are cool." But I do think this very mindset has worked it's way into many young heads. Perhaps it's this way for others as well?

Man, check out the March Madness Tournament thing we're having! It's full of this stuff

 

[General Zod]

I think BWD's post summarized it best. Part of the appeal of the underground, is it's just that. Those who listen to underground music, often hold some contempt for those that don't. And when music that was once embraced by the underground finds a wider audience, it's often shunned by its original followers.

I think in the case of In Flames, their blatant sell out has left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, to the point where it's tainted the way their earlier works are viewed.

Earlier today I posted about Lamb of God, and asked why they don't get more respect around here. Personally, I believe that if "Ashes of the Wake" was a self-produced debut, from some band in Norway, that was only available on eBay or through some obscure distributor in Croatia, people around here would be talking up that disc to no end. However, since LoG is on Metal Blade, their videos on MTV2, they're American and they were on Ozzfest, their perceived with either ambivalence or disdain. I'm sure plenty of folks will disagree with me, but that's my take on it.

Zod