Lets face it - the metal scene is still dead...or is it?

[JayKeeley]

Thinking back to that thread about "who ruled the 90's", it was obvious that the 70's and 80's carried all the 'giants' of metal. Those decades were also when there was less media dictatorship and less MTV etc, and people *made up their own minds* as to what they liked/disliked.

I have to assume that one of the reasons for the demise of metal in the 90's was due to lack of communication amongst the fans once the genre had been driven back underground. I mean, what did we have - little black and white photocopied fanzines at most? And we all know Kerrang etc went pop.

So my question is, now that the internet has become a 24 hour communications platform FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, it's proven that there are still thousands upon thousands of fans around the world still into metal just like all of us lot....

...so why is it that we're still not seeing even a fraction of what it was like in the 70's and 80's? I know it's bigger in Europe and South America than it is in the USA, but even the biggest festival (Wacken?) only attracts 30-40,000. That is pretty pathetic when you look back to the Monsters of Rock festivals that would host only 6 or 7 big bands and still garner 100,000 fans with ease.

Come on, help me out here. :Spin:

 

[NAD]

Because the youth of today gets lazier all the time. The "metal" of the mainstream today is the microwave for the stereotypical black t-shirt wearing slacker. Fast and easy to digest. All the while, the underground is getting more and more inaccessible every day. Stuff that was banned 10 years ago is nearly tame by today's standards. The underground is harder to digest, and regardless of the widespread internet and it's vast seek and destroy capabilities, most are still in the dark. Honestly, how many metalheads know about UltimateMetal.com vs. something like MTV? Also, if you believe like I do, the modern nu-metal stuff is so far removed from what metal has ever been that the legions of fans can't even really be counted as metalheads, it is much more of a rap scene than anything. Simplistic and very easy to digest.

By the way, my mother laughs at me whenever I use the term "youth of today" while excluding myself, so don't worry, I know it's pretty silly for a mid-20s kid to use that term.

 

[J.]

The answer is simple. Americans are after the "quick fix". They like being told what to eat, what to wear, what to listen to, what to look like, etc., and if you're not into these things, you're taboo. Americans like being told what to believe, etc.

What's even worse is that if you actually tell the "sheep" that they like so-and-so because "it's cool", they'll deny everything.

I also think it has to do with our society frowning upon differences. Our politicians, our senior citizens, and even the baby-boomers truly lack the realization that society needs people to adopt the taboo things in a society. No other country has this problem. Hell, some countries even try to promote difference.

Add to that the image of metal having satanic and evil stereotypes, plus the media adding fuel to the fire by only reporting the negative news, and you have metal=bad for society.



In summary, Americans truly lack individualism, and are happy falling in line with the rest, instead of actually venturing out and finding things that may be a little left field.

 

[Black Winter Day]

nice points, dreamlord and NAD

I think it all starts with advertising: how in the hell is the 'average' consumer who grew up on classic rock and is familiar with most popular music to ever hear of a band like. . . oh, say Nokturnal Mortum (an underground band that a good part of underground fans are familiar with). Most people will live and die without ever knowing that bands like this exist. This is because of 1) obvious lack of advertising, which stems from captalistic power-monger record companies who only promote what will sell (i.e. the simplistic "microwave" bands) while crushing the lesser known record companies into the dust and 2) the American insecurity when it comes to experimentation. Don't we all wish it was the 60s again? I mean, most Americans are only comfortable if they are listening to what is "cool". They don't have to like it, they only have to rest assured in knowing that the mosic they are listening to is liked by many others, which leads into the "conformity scenario". 'It must be good because others like it" and such.

Advertising ---> awareness ---> pseudo-popularity + insecurity regarding musical taste = conformity and undaunted acceptance of the popular musical scene

Only the people who care about individual aesthetics delve into the underground scenes for sustenance; we know what we like, what we dislike, and yet are still ready to try new stuff. The typical American wants to be told what to like and has to have that "like" justified by further conformity in others ('I like this because they like this!' being said by millions of people leads to the question 'Who really does like it?')

It's almost a vicious circle between capitalistim/advertising and rigid conformity. As long as both exist, the chances of underground music hitting the mainstream will be just as limited in the future, if not more.

 

[JayKeeley]

Good points from all. I'll also be interested to read comments from people outside of the USA. My initial point highlighted that the Internet is basically 24hrs and GLOBAL, and yet the demise continues everywhere....

Although the US has issues with "being different" lets say, and "needing to be told what to like", the demise of metal (or alternative lifestyles) still continues overseas, even in Europe where the media and politicians have a much lesser role by far.

Maybe what I'm trying to say is, doesn't some of the burden lie with us, the fans? NAD pointed out that the youth of today are lazy - well, this cannot be just an American trait. Even the festivals of Europe bring together only a fraction of the real metal fans, and there has to be a reason why people don't make the effort.

Has the fear of 'being different' taken over, when once, the metal scene epitomized rebellion from the norm through the fallout of punk? In other words, we all might listen to it from the saftey of our homes, ordering secretly from small on-line stores, but we no longer live it? The difference is massive if you think about it.

 

[Black Winter Day]

it shouldn't matter one way or another, lifestyle and musical taste ARE two different things and shouldn't have a huge bearing on a band/genre's popularity.

since when was wearing an opeth shirt around campus considered 'advertising'?

 

[NAD]

I think we need a music revolution. The underground should unanimously choose one group to take over and bring insanity to the masses. What traits should the group encompass? Gore? Satan? Wizards?

 

[Black Winter Day]

furry boots

 

[JayKeeley]

I declare that we each take it upon ourselves to build a "4 man super group"....choose your players wisely:

Drummer:
Bass Player:
Guitar Player:
Vocalist:

No keyboards, no multi-guitars, no flute players...bare bones metal.

!

Perhaps this deserves a thread all unto itself....since I'm the "thread whore", someone else get it going!

 

[JayKeeley]

Back on topic, anyone able to comment on the metal scene in their respective countries (outside of the USA and Texas)?

 

[Hell Mike]

Metal is not dead and will not die; it was and is just not meant for the mainstream. The scene in Sweden is rather good I'd say, though we have lots of crap too.

Interesting thread with interesting views but I'd say mine is the winner

 

[Demonspell]

I agree, I don't have any desire to see metal reestablish itself in terms of mainstream acceptance, which I have always felt stifles creativity. And I'm not going to go the "they're too dumb to understand it" route...to me, the lack of awareness is more of a problem of being too indoctrinated to give uncoventional music a fair chance than the inability to grasp it entirely.

 

[JayKeeley]

Well, I'm not really saying that metal needs to be accepted by the mainstream. Very simply, metal used to be HUGE not because it was in the mainstream but because metal fans made the effort.

During the 90's, it seemed like all those fans disappeared when metal became "untrendy", but in reality, the die hard fans just had no way of 'connecting'.

Now we have the internet, we realize that there are indeed thousands of fans out there, and yet it is these very same fans who make little to no effort to help the scene perpetuate.

My point is, fans today are armchair spectators compared to what it was like 15 years ago. That level of apathy was discussed above, from an American perspective, and I guess I was hoping that non-US people could throw in their ideas as to why this is so obviously a global lethargy as opposed to US national...

 

[Black Winter Day]

what the fuck are we supposed to do? go out with signs saying how good thyrfing are? set up booths? "matriculate" the scene?

why in the hell should i do any of that? what do i care if other people like or dislike the music? do the bands themselves give a shit? i would say no; if they did they wouldn't be playing the music in the first place.

 

[JayKeeley]

No I think you're missing the point completely. I mean, you're not even close to understanding. Fuck the mainstream, and fuck wanting to 'advertise' the scene.

I find that shocking if you think nothing needs to change - I think metal reflects camaradarie amongst its fans, and there was much more of that not so long ago...

What is wrong with wanting the equivalent of Wacken for example in the US? Sure there is the Milwaukee Metal Festival, ProgPower, NJ Fest etc, but don't you think it is disgraceful that only 5,000 fans show up to each one?

It's a double edge sword - why?

If there are 500,000 fans in the US alone (not including nuMetal obviously), I would expect at least 50,000 fans to be in a position to make more of an effort rather than just buy one CD a month or download MP3s for a living. That way, labels and concert sponsors can invest their $$ knowing that they're going to make a return on that investment when running shows, or promoting bands. And then they can take a risk and hire a stadium instead of a bar that happens to have a tiny little stage in the corner next to the broken PA.

As said before, this scene needs a fucking good kick up the ass - and that does not mean more exposure, more MTV, more advertising. It means the existing fanbase get out from behind their computers, and bands like Nevermore, Iced Earth, Morbid Angel, Slayer etc get BACK into the arenas. We already have the fans - the internet proves that - but where are they?

 

[bloodfiredeath]

For me personally, here's the problem. Though I love metal, I will generalize in saying that a high majority of metal fans are idiots who I don't want anything to do with. Yes, in forums like this, several people can come together that I can respect and have a decent conversation with, but just go and look at the general music forum here on UM. There's your average metal fan.

I'm just too old and have little to no tolerance for people I don't want to deal with. I don't want comaraderie, I don't want anything to do with a 'scene.' I spend alot of money on cds, I go to shows. That's the most you're gonna get out of me.

Ultimately, I admit that I come off really selfish about the whole thing. The more people out there that like a band, the more there are out there to annoy me. I'm happy when I go to a show and there are only 20 people there, even though I know that's shitty for the band. I doubt I would ever go to Wacken or any US show with that many people.

I suck.

 

[Black Winter Day]

you just said that metal needs to be recharged in the mainstream.

i say that i don't give a flying fuck whether it is or no.

how exactly am i missing the point?

 

[neal]

Thinking back to that thread about "who ruled the 90's", it was obvious that the 70's and 80's carried all the 'giants' of metal. Those decades were also when there was less media dictatorship and less MTV etc, and people *made up their own minds* as to what they liked/disliked.

***the reason metal was big in the 80s was almost 100% because of MTV what are you talking about? MTV up untill the early 90s when rap and grunge came about had nothing but wall to wall metal. sure most of them were 'hair bands' but they're not that different than shit like metallica and priest anyway. OK and the "metal" from the 70s? you mean like black sabbath or something? aahahahahaha excuse me while i laugh about how 'extreme' and 'offensive' they were compared to the rest of the rock from back then. yeh not very different at all.

I have to assume that one of the reasons for the demise of metal in the 90's was due to lack of communication amongst the fans once the genre had been driven back underground. I mean, what did we have - little black and white photocopied fanzines at most? And we all know Kerrang etc went pop.

***white kids started listening to rap and metal got way less comercial and accesable to the average person. the 90s was the birth of 'extreme' metal. you think some old balding guy in a ragged sabbath shirt is going to get into cannibal corpse or darkthrone? hardly

So my question is, now that the internet has become a 24 hour communications platform FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, it's proven that there are still thousands upon thousands of fans around the world still into metal just like all of us lot....

***why did you break here?

...so why is it that we're still not seeing even a fraction of what it was like in the 70's and 80's? I know it's bigger in Europe and South America than it is in the USA, but even the biggest festival (Wacken?) only attracts 30-40,000. That is pretty pathetic when you look back to the Monsters of Rock festivals that would host only 6 or 7 big bands and still garner 100,000 fans with ease.

***thats because the bands were far less detatched from the sound of the mainstreem than they are today. old "metal" is as easy on the ears as fuckin BOSTON.

Come on, help me out here. :Spin:

fuck the 70s and 80s anyway. did someone say living in the past? yes they did. it was me.
-neal

 

[Black Winter Day]

damn straight you did

 

[JayKeeley]

@Bloodfiredeath - I can appreciate everything that you said there. Very honest, and at times I would agree with you.

you just said that metal needs to be recharged in the mainstream.

I never once said that dude! The first person to mention the mainstream was Sorath saying metal "was not meant for the mainstream".

Fuck any discussion about the non-metal public.

My overall point is that metal as a scene is as dead as a dodo (in comparison to what it used to be like) and the 'disappointing' part of that equation is that it isn't through lack of EXISTING fans.

If everyone feels the same as bloodfiredeath, then my question has been answered.