Nevermore - THE kick in the ass metal needed. The most original band to come out of the 90s. It has everything I ever wanted in music: heavy, brutal guitars, the greatest drumming I have ever heard, a vocalist with such a unique voice, who writes possibly the most intelligent lyrics I have ever read, to half of which I can relate, and pounding bass. When I listen to this band, endorphins are released throughout my body and I feel good all around and get very energetic. Every word that comes out of Warrel's mouth is sheer poetry, and makes you stop and think. His choice of words is so precise and so perfect. Jeff's guitar work and song writing technique is probably the best example of a musician who was self taught and what countless hours of hard work and practice may accomplish you one day. Van's drumming is just top notch. I think he is a more interesting drummer than Mike Portnoy, and has some of the best incorporation of the whole set i ever heard, especially his cymbal work. Jim's bass playing ties the whole band together musically, keeping great rhythms and providing great grooves that make you wanna jump up and break things, like This Sacrament. From heavy to mellow, from brutal to beautiful and melodic, this band has it all. I am very glad that I took a chance on them that one faithful day last november. And although I didn't like them that much at first, something kept compelling me to relisten to the album over and over, until its beauty and essence finally broke through and changed my musical life forever.
Why Nevermore Rules:
- Thread starter Pure Evil
- Start date
RETIREDTrapped
New Metal Member
- Sep 12, 2001
- 8,312
- 4
- 0
Interesting opinion.
Nevermore have got something special going, but i don't know if it's the most original music around....?
Van suits the music very well.... but both Gene Hoglan and Richard Christy could kill him at playing.... TWICE!!
Yes, warrel is a damn good singer, and POE and DNB lyrics are very insightful, and some of DHIADW.
I had the utmost respect for Jeff up to DHIADW, the playing off POE, IM, DNB is certainly very technical, and well, good. But the playing off DHIADW does nothing for me at all. No technicality or crazyiness, just simple shit. (and no-one mention the riverdragon solo, because i can play it, and it's really not that hard at all)
You seem to have a large deal of euphoria surrounding Nevermore. SO i wont flame you. But get all the albums if you don't have them already, get the sanctuary albums too, and await the new release, then come back and express what you feel, and we'll see how it may change.
Nevermore have got something special going, but i don't know if it's the most original music around....?
Van suits the music very well.... but both Gene Hoglan and Richard Christy could kill him at playing.... TWICE!!
Yes, warrel is a damn good singer, and POE and DNB lyrics are very insightful, and some of DHIADW.
I had the utmost respect for Jeff up to DHIADW, the playing off POE, IM, DNB is certainly very technical, and well, good. But the playing off DHIADW does nothing for me at all. No technicality or crazyiness, just simple shit. (and no-one mention the riverdragon solo, because i can play it, and it's really not that hard at all)
You seem to have a large deal of euphoria surrounding Nevermore. SO i wont flame you. But get all the albums if you don't have them already, get the sanctuary albums too, and await the new release, then come back and express what you feel, and we'll see how it may change.
GeniusGonInsane - thanks
Trapped - Richard Christy is one of my fav drummers and he is damn great, but i just feel van has an overall better technique. its just me though. I didn't like his job on Horror Show all that much 'cause Schaffer is a control freak and limited him. Secondly, I have had all the Nevermore albums and one Sanctuary album for almost a year now and know em all like the back of my hand, and I still feel like this about this band. But like I said, this is just me and everyone has different opinions about everything and such. Just thought i'd share my joy with you people.
Trapped - Richard Christy is one of my fav drummers and he is damn great, but i just feel van has an overall better technique. its just me though. I didn't like his job on Horror Show all that much 'cause Schaffer is a control freak and limited him. Secondly, I have had all the Nevermore albums and one Sanctuary album for almost a year now and know em all like the back of my hand, and I still feel like this about this band. But like I said, this is just me and everyone has different opinions about everything and such. Just thought i'd share my joy with you people.
Jody42147
Downtrodden
Yes Evil one I agree w/you. Since I first saw them 4 years ago, they got under my skin and won't go away, but that's OK I don't mind!!
RETIREDTrapped
New Metal Member
- Sep 12, 2001
- 8,312
- 4
- 0
I agree with you on christy. I guess you didn't see the Iced Earth vs Nevermore thread on the original forum?? Because I hate Horror show. It blows goats. I haven't liked iced earth since SWTWC. Everything since then has been shit.
I was meaning RC's drumming on Deaths TSOP or Control Denied's TFAOE.... He is awesome, his technique is awesome.
But, i agree with you, Van has great technique, and if you read my post before again, i said he suits nevermore damn well...
I share your joy with nevermore EXCEPT with DHIADW.
In the first albums, yes, heavy, mellow, brutal, beautiful. But not in DHIADW. They are now just a run of the mill power metal band like IE. No technicality, no inovation.
Just a personal thought that was provoked through what you said, nothing personal... just an opinion.
I was meaning RC's drumming on Deaths TSOP or Control Denied's TFAOE.... He is awesome, his technique is awesome.
But, i agree with you, Van has great technique, and if you read my post before again, i said he suits nevermore damn well...
I share your joy with nevermore EXCEPT with DHIADW.
In the first albums, yes, heavy, mellow, brutal, beautiful. But not in DHIADW. They are now just a run of the mill power metal band like IE. No technicality, no inovation.
Just a personal thought that was provoked through what you said, nothing personal... just an opinion.
well,pure evil, I must say I totally agree with you.
I'm into Nevermore since '96 and the flame still burns inside(even hoter than these days).
Nevermore is a unique band,with awesome albums (even DHIADW,which i must admit is not as good as the others).
Even today when I listen to Matricide or The Garden of Grey I find new things I never heard before.
Looking for tomorrow....
I'm into Nevermore since '96 and the flame still burns inside(even hoter than these days).
Nevermore is a unique band,with awesome albums (even DHIADW,which i must admit is not as good as the others).
Even today when I listen to Matricide or The Garden of Grey I find new things I never heard before.
Looking for tomorrow....
![[KOTNO]Narrot](/data/avatars/l/1/1031.jpg?1052155060){kind=avatar}
[KOTNO]Narrot
Eats and spits corpses...
Vylance X
The 9th Prophet
I would like to learn the River Dragon solo... only problem is I play a 6 and tune down to B flat... so I don't have the E flat to play on. Damnit!
yeah his drumming absolutely slays on those! thats why when i heard horror show i was very disappointed with his contributions there.
In the first albums, yes, heavy, mellow, brutal, beautiful. But not in DHIADW. They are now just a run of the mill power metal band like IE. No technicality, no inovation.
actually i was referring to dead heart mostly when i said that. it just has that mix of brutal songs, mid tempo songs and ballads.
Demonspell
cheating the polygraph
Preach on, poison godmachine! That was brilliant, I really should save it for when Nevermore's next album comes out and I want to give it special coverage in my column...I have already contemplated having occasional guest reviewers.
RETIREDTrapped
New Metal Member
- Sep 12, 2001
- 8,312
- 4
- 0
Hey demonspell, can i reveiw the next opeth and death (that is, if there is another one!) releases?
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Pure Evil-
Agree... with every word you wrote. Well said.
Trapped-
Disagree... with (pretty much) everything you said.
I'll take Van Williams over Richard Christy any day of the week. Which isn't meant to disparage Christy, who I'm a big fan of. However, Van outclasses him (in my opinion).
Iced Earth's "Horror Show" not only doesn't "blow goats", it's an excellent disc, which is more mature than "SWTWC" by a wide margin. "Dracula", "Phantom", "Wolf", and "Damien" are four of the best songs released in 2001. As to your criticism of Christy's playing on "Horror Show", I think you may have missed the boat. His playing is obviously not as technical as it was in Death or Control Denied, but that's because it's not supposed to be. Iced Earth is first and foremost a power metal band. Had Christy employed a style similar to the one he made use of on his previous works, it would have sounded completely out of place. Instead, Christy decided to kick back, and show people what power metal drums are supposed to sound like.
Everything Warrel has written since, and including, POE has been brilliant.
If Jeff's playing on Dead Heart does nothing for you, I think that put's you in a very small minority. Great rythms and beautifully executed solos don't need to be either "technical" or "crazy". The fact that you can play the solo from "The River Dragon has Come" means very little. Back in the day, I had half a dozen friends who could play most of Yngwie's solos. Does that make Yngwie less brilliant somehow? I don't think so. It's not about what you can learn to play, it's about what you are able to create.
By the way, please take my comments in the spirit they were intended; friendly disagreement.
GZ
Agree... with every word you wrote. Well said.
Trapped-
Disagree... with (pretty much) everything you said.
I'll take Van Williams over Richard Christy any day of the week. Which isn't meant to disparage Christy, who I'm a big fan of. However, Van outclasses him (in my opinion).
Iced Earth's "Horror Show" not only doesn't "blow goats", it's an excellent disc, which is more mature than "SWTWC" by a wide margin. "Dracula", "Phantom", "Wolf", and "Damien" are four of the best songs released in 2001. As to your criticism of Christy's playing on "Horror Show", I think you may have missed the boat. His playing is obviously not as technical as it was in Death or Control Denied, but that's because it's not supposed to be. Iced Earth is first and foremost a power metal band. Had Christy employed a style similar to the one he made use of on his previous works, it would have sounded completely out of place. Instead, Christy decided to kick back, and show people what power metal drums are supposed to sound like.
Everything Warrel has written since, and including, POE has been brilliant.
If Jeff's playing on Dead Heart does nothing for you, I think that put's you in a very small minority. Great rythms and beautifully executed solos don't need to be either "technical" or "crazy". The fact that you can play the solo from "The River Dragon has Come" means very little. Back in the day, I had half a dozen friends who could play most of Yngwie's solos. Does that make Yngwie less brilliant somehow? I don't think so. It's not about what you can learn to play, it's about what you are able to create.
By the way, please take my comments in the spirit they were intended; friendly disagreement.
GZ
Demonspell
cheating the polygraph
I'll take care of the Opeth, they and Nevermore are my favorite bands... The relocation of my column has made it easier to leave comments...
The relocation of my column has made it easier to leave comments...1. i dunno, imo brent smedly did a great job on AIA and i really expected Christy to top it, but imo he didn't
2. yeah really. jeff has some crazy rhythms on DHIADW, such as the verse to evolution 169. all in all, i think jeff has the greatest usage of chromatic notes that i have heard. and that is a great change to all the standard combinations of notes that most metal bands use.
demonspell - thanks a lot
. i posted this same thing on the maiden bb but no one gave a flying fuck.
Jody42147
Downtrodden
Everything Warrel has written since, and including, POE has been brilliant.
If Jeff's playing on Dead Heart does nothing for you, I think that put's you in a very small minority. ..... It's not about what you can learn to play, it's about what you are able to create.
GZ [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes Yes YES !!!!! Thank you SOMEBODY for seeing things the exact same way I DO!!!!
Way to go General Z
If Jeff's playing on Dead Heart does nothing for you, I think that put's you in a very small minority. ..... It's not about what you can learn to play, it's about what you are able to create.
GZ [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes Yes YES !!!!! Thank you SOMEBODY for seeing things the exact same way I DO!!!!
Way to go General Z
Captain Beard
No longer active
- Sep 6, 2001
- 28,010
- 99
- 48
NoLordy considers "The Heart Collector" one of Nevermore's greatest pieces. The intro, the riffs, the solo, the lyrics, the vocals, all brilliant... He needs "naught" speed guitar to like what he hears.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Pure Evil-
You like the drums on AIA that much? I own the disc, but haven't spent a good amount of time listening to it. I'll have to give it another whirl.
Jody-
Thanks.
GZ
You like the drums on AIA that much? I own the disc, but haven't spent a good amount of time listening to it. I'll have to give it another whirl.
Jody-
Thanks.
GZ
RETIREDTrapped
New Metal Member
- Sep 12, 2001
- 8,312
- 4
- 0
Okay, heres the deal:
Did i say "Jeff can't create beautiful music"... ? No. No i didn't.
I said "...the playing off DHIADW does nothing for me at all". Playing the guitar, and writing music are two different things. Yes, i agree with you that jeff has written some beautiful music, very simple, melodic music. But simple music is not why I personally got into nevermore. If i wanted to listen to simple, melodic music I would listen to sentenced (which i do, and i love sentenced very much), or simply turn on the radio and listen to some simple, melodic pop music.
I am a guitarist of 12 years, so i have come to appreciate, -yet am able to seperate- beautiful music from brilliant guitar playing. The first ever nevermore song i heard (i was a fan of santuary, but obviously they are not nevermore, and jeff wasn't around then...!) was 'next in line'. And i was totally blown away by Jeff's guitar -PLAYING-, Van's drums (totally awesome on poe), and especially warrel's vocals. I also noted that it was, albeit technical, and albeit talented musically, it was very well written and intelligent music. THAT is why i got into nevermore, and why i have spent lots an lots of my very RARE money on getting their albums (hey, i'm in australia for gods sake, metal doesn't exist over here, you just can't find metal anywhere).
It was those two combined things, great music, and very talented technical playing. That is what i have come to beleive of nevermore. But when DHIADW came out (trust me, i was the first person in oz to get it... and actually, i have a standard copy, and the DH box) I was really dissapointed to hear that i could simply pick up my guitar and fiddle around for a minute and have 80% of the riffs and melodies worked out. I didn't say that nevermore can't write music, and i didn't say that they couldn't write beautiful music. All i was saying is that the guitar -PLAYING-, NOT the writing, on DHIADW was not to my taste. (i will also take a moment to glare at jeff for using a seven string. The only metal band that did the 'seven string' thing and got away with it was morbid angel)
And no, before you all start spewing out crap like 'music doesn't have to be technical to be good'... Take note that although i do like bands such as CYNIC, DEATH, MARTYR, OPETH etc. I like other simpler metal styles and even non metal bands like SENTENCED, DAYS OF THE NEW, THE TEA PARTY, ICED EARTH and the likes...!
So no, i don't beleive that music has to be technical or crazy to be good. I just think that nevermore have the capacity to be technical ASWELL as beautiful, and with DHIADW, they could have really outstepped their boundaries, but they didn't. In time they will find themselves TRAPPED IN A CORNER.
And by the way, i really don't like or appreciate Yngwie at all. I really dislike his music, and i hate guitarists that trap themselves into one style or technique, such as sweeping; the man can't do anything BUT sweeping for god's sake. Give me Joe satriani anyday! So i'll just ignore that comment. I wasn't trying to glamourize my playing or make myself look good, i was merely saying to anyone that thinks that the solo from 'dragon' is technical (it was shouted out at me in an earlier thread, so i had good reason to say it)... that it really isn't complicated at all, and hence backing up MY personal thoughts on DHIADW's non-technicality.
Did i say "Jeff can't create beautiful music"... ? No. No i didn't.
I said "...the playing off DHIADW does nothing for me at all". Playing the guitar, and writing music are two different things. Yes, i agree with you that jeff has written some beautiful music, very simple, melodic music. But simple music is not why I personally got into nevermore. If i wanted to listen to simple, melodic music I would listen to sentenced (which i do, and i love sentenced very much), or simply turn on the radio and listen to some simple, melodic pop music.
I am a guitarist of 12 years, so i have come to appreciate, -yet am able to seperate- beautiful music from brilliant guitar playing. The first ever nevermore song i heard (i was a fan of santuary, but obviously they are not nevermore, and jeff wasn't around then...!) was 'next in line'. And i was totally blown away by Jeff's guitar -PLAYING-, Van's drums (totally awesome on poe), and especially warrel's vocals. I also noted that it was, albeit technical, and albeit talented musically, it was very well written and intelligent music. THAT is why i got into nevermore, and why i have spent lots an lots of my very RARE money on getting their albums (hey, i'm in australia for gods sake, metal doesn't exist over here, you just can't find metal anywhere).
It was those two combined things, great music, and very talented technical playing. That is what i have come to beleive of nevermore. But when DHIADW came out (trust me, i was the first person in oz to get it... and actually, i have a standard copy, and the DH box) I was really dissapointed to hear that i could simply pick up my guitar and fiddle around for a minute and have 80% of the riffs and melodies worked out. I didn't say that nevermore can't write music, and i didn't say that they couldn't write beautiful music. All i was saying is that the guitar -PLAYING-, NOT the writing, on DHIADW was not to my taste. (i will also take a moment to glare at jeff for using a seven string. The only metal band that did the 'seven string' thing and got away with it was morbid angel)
And no, before you all start spewing out crap like 'music doesn't have to be technical to be good'... Take note that although i do like bands such as CYNIC, DEATH, MARTYR, OPETH etc. I like other simpler metal styles and even non metal bands like SENTENCED, DAYS OF THE NEW, THE TEA PARTY, ICED EARTH and the likes...!
So no, i don't beleive that music has to be technical or crazy to be good. I just think that nevermore have the capacity to be technical ASWELL as beautiful, and with DHIADW, they could have really outstepped their boundaries, but they didn't. In time they will find themselves TRAPPED IN A CORNER.
And by the way, i really don't like or appreciate Yngwie at all. I really dislike his music, and i hate guitarists that trap themselves into one style or technique, such as sweeping; the man can't do anything BUT sweeping for god's sake. Give me Joe satriani anyday! So i'll just ignore that comment. I wasn't trying to glamourize my playing or make myself look good, i was merely saying to anyone that thinks that the solo from 'dragon' is technical (it was shouted out at me in an earlier thread, so i had good reason to say it)... that it really isn't complicated at all, and hence backing up MY personal thoughts on DHIADW's non-technicality.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
For the record, I didn't think you were trying to glamorize your own playing. I was merely trying to point out the distinction between creating something and reproducing it.
I don't think Nevermore will box themselves in. I would be surprised if their next CD is anything like "Dead Heart". Hopefully, it will be a hybrid between their last three, with an emphasis on "Dreaming".
For what it's worth, I, like you, think Yngwie is pretty much a one-trick-pony. Personally, Vai is my favorite. I was lucky enough to catch G3 this year. Satriani was awesome. He's like a machine. He doesn't miss anything. But to me, Vai is it. I don't put any other player in Vai's class.
GZ
I don't think Nevermore will box themselves in. I would be surprised if their next CD is anything like "Dead Heart". Hopefully, it will be a hybrid between their last three, with an emphasis on "Dreaming".
For what it's worth, I, like you, think Yngwie is pretty much a one-trick-pony. Personally, Vai is my favorite. I was lucky enough to catch G3 this year. Satriani was awesome. He's like a machine. He doesn't miss anything. But to me, Vai is it. I don't put any other player in Vai's class.
GZ
