Why Smart People Suicide

[infoterror]

Jon Nödtveidt is dead and the response to his suicide diagnoses why he did it. As an acquaintance of mine said, "I'm of higher than average intelligence -- two standard deviations. This society is not designed for people of higher intelligence. We see things the others don't, such as how inefficient or self-destructive the way this society works is. And since they don't see it, they crowd out our opinions and leave us with no voice. It's a lonely side of life."

For the child born with intelligence, the invisible world becomes clear: the connection between ideas and consequences both immediate and long term. This has to be trained by experience, but it emerges over time (one great lament of humanity is that it takes almost four decades for wisdom to emerge in most). Such a child will literally "see" things that do not exist but which will exist because he or she understands the connection between design (our thoughts, plans, goals) and their consequences.

The higher intelligence gives this person the ability to see multiple levels of consequence. Where a dumb person can realize that setting a blaze in a living room will burn the house down, and an average person will recognize the blaze may spread to a neighborhood, the reasonably above average person weighs the dryness of the season, the amount of loose timber in the neighborhood, prevailing winds and many other factors and can see how if the situation is right this fire could torch a large section of the surrounding city.

Isolation: Why Smart People Suicide

 

[Frank the tank]

i have a friend who is incredibly and sometimes ridiculously smart - but he is often conflicted, incredibly emotional, and depressed somewhat andi guess kind of lonely. this thread kid of shed light on why he might be feeling like that, bu i guess it kind of clarifies the obvious. i mean wouldn't you be frustrated if you were trying to have say and intellectual conversation wih a bunch of apes? what if you had to live your whole life like that? pretty fucked up, but it proves intelligence and happiness are two different things.

 

[speed]

Interesting article. Essentially you take a pessimistic Schopenhauerian attitude towards phenomenom and noumanon (using this musician, and how his intellect informed him of the horror and valuness of the world, objects, phenomenom leadinbg to his suicide), and chose not to follow Schopenhauer's Will as noumenon, and its primacy over the intellect. Because if you had, you would agree with old Arthur that the destruction of the will or the desire to live, must be condemned as it is contrary to the will. Schopenhauer thought art and creation was the one way to overcome the Will. Apparently, you disagree, and are even more pessimistic than perhaps the most pessimistic philosopher since Pyhrro of Elis.


Im more than a little surprised you quote literary hack Michael Crichton for a rather important point--he of breathtaking chracterization, prose, dialogue, and plausible plots.

 

[Prognostic]

Many people I would consider highly intelligent are very emotional, cannot express themselves the way they would like, and can see ways around things or points that other people miss, but tend to do nothing. In other words, they think but never act. I think that could also explain the rates of suicide of intelligent people.

 

[Sacred Profane]

What IS a smart person?

I think there's plenty of room for expression for everyone if they just take the chance.

To generalize, many people I have considered intelligent are... well, nerds.
They don't socialize that well. I've often found that instead of blaming everyone else, look at them instead. Most of these people (and again, I'm generalizing about people I know) are kind of arrogant. If someone can't match their intellect they're not worth discussing with. And a result is they become isolated and their social skills never evolve as much.
This would be the reason for their depression etc..

Obviously this wouldn't apply to everyone. But it seems to be the case quite often.

 

[Sacred Profane]

And btw, I don't see what Jon Nödtveidt has to do with anything. Considering his actions in life I would not consider him very 'smart', even though he was a very competent musician.

Edit: No flaming for this It's an opinion and not a fact.

 

[Seditious]

"A man should be mourned at his birth, not at his death." - Charles de Secondat


but yeh I dunno about that 'I'm too smart to live' thing, it seems like a self-serving sort of excuse. I mean after all, if you have no 'Emotional Intelligence' then what good is all your knowledge. To me intelligence is really a divided thing and if you have only one kind of intelligence, you can't make up for all the others no matter how much of that you have.

 

[speed]

What IS a smart person?

I think there's plenty of room for expression for everyone if they just take the chance.

To generalize, many people I have considered intelligent are... well, nerds.
They don't socialize that well. I've often found that instead of blaming everyone else, look at them instead. Most of these people (and again, I'm generalizing about people I know) are kind of arrogant. If someone can't match their intellect they're not worth discussing with. And a result is they become isolated and their social skills never evolve as much.
This would be the reason for their depression etc..

Obviously this wouldn't apply to everyone. But it seems to be the case quite often.

Nerds. You know, I was thinking of making a thread about nerds a few weeks ago.

My thesis was going to be that nerds--in the United States at least--are no longer interested with anything esoteric except technology. I dont know about the nature of nerds in the rest of the world--as they dont seem to segregate themselves as they do here--but it seems in America, nerds are now a bizarre group of comic book worshipping, superhero movie watching, fantasy book reading, computer gamers, who's only truly intelligent behavior is a predilection towards computers and computer related matters. In addition, it also seems such "nerds" are curiosly part of groups of likewise inclined people. Thus, my point is, I see nothing intelligent and eccentric with nerds tastes and behaviors other than a fondness for computer related creativity.

Just an observation, that perhaps we need to stop making inferences that nerds=intelligent persons; but rather, nerds= a shared recognizable group behavior.

 

[Omnis_Sathanas]

To generalize, many people I have considered intelligent are... well, nerds.
.

I think that's a bad generalization. Most people who are "nerds" or "dorks" are of moderate to high intelligence and become marginalized, thus latch obsessively onto one group or subculture. An example would be a kid who gets picked on at school then just goes home and plays dungeons and dragons or something all day.

Someone who is of very high intelligence would usually realize that it's fairly foolish to do something like mess around with computers/video games or whatever to fill a vast majority of their time. A greater balance is achieved by physical as well as a variety mental activities with some sort of supporting social relationships (even classical philosophers spoke of all these as being necessary).

The spectrum becomes:
"Average" people socialize on the basis of money, sex, entertainment.
"Nerds" socialize mostly on the basis of their given subculture identity almost exclusively.
"Smart" people can socialize on almost anything without necessarily knowing the specific details because they're the most well rounded and have a broader range of experiences.

 

[Sacred Profane]

Well... nerds might be the wrong word. I can't really find a good word to explain what I mean.

But a person who studies hard in school and does well on tests and so on, but can't really go to a party and be social with others. Basically just a person who works with the more obvious side of intelligence.
Anyway, go start the nerd topic before we derail this one

 

[Seditious]

I dont know about the nature of nerds in the rest of the world--as they dont seem to segregate themselves as they do here--but it seems in America, nerds are now a bizarre group of comic book worshipping, superhero movie watching, fantasy book reading, computer gamers, who's only truly intelligent behavior is a predilection towards computers and computer related matters.

I thought those were 'geeks.' Nerds were the 'booky' ones, and geeks were the losers who weren't into good music or sport or partying or anything like that.

 

[Warden_D]

A very romantic article, but doesn't really seem to offer any connection to Jon's actions. It seems a lot more like a projection of how the writer feels about suicide.

From all his comments it sounded like he just wanted to go out on top. The guy had a huge (probably a bit over-inflated) sense of self worth and instead of miring in semi-relevance for years releasing marginally enjoyable records he just went out on everybodies tongue. I don't think Jon was at all prepared for what life would be like after prison. It kept him in isolation and the world moves on a lot in 8 years. Some friends probably gave up on metal and got IT jobs. Some probably still wore the same clothes and hadn't grown up at all. He wasn't a returning hero, just some dinosaur that had pioneered a style that is popular now even though 1% of the bands might have actually heard his albums. His attempt to rekindle magic with Dissection was greeted mostly with luke warm reviews. So what then? Cut your hair, tone down the satanism and get a real job? Isn't this the guy that said "death before dishonour"?

D.

 

[More Murder]

What's is your guys' problem with nerds?

 

[speed]

I thought those were 'geeks.' Nerds were the 'booky' ones, and geeks were the losers who weren't into good music or sport or partying or anything like that.

Ah, pardon me for my semantic confusion. I thought the booky ones, were usually called smart or eccentric.

 

[Silver Incubus]

First I just want to put out my opinion on suicide, which is that it is not for the smart people, but in fact for the stupid, weak, and/or attention whores.
Just because one feels alienated from most people because they choose more intellectual activities instead of partying. clubbing, or generally any kind of hedonistic interests, shouldn't be in any way associated with missery, depression, etc. I find that my persuits in life take me to topics of theology, philosophy, science, estoic arts, etc.

I also find that the attempt to label people because they have similar interests as they are x becuase they enjoy doing certian activies. It is because of such labels that people become alienated in the first place.

One just has to look at the media and corporations to see how they are refining marketing to target demographics and thus creating alienation between groups of people when really what society should be doing is encouaging cross interests. Hell the social pressures that some people face may keep them away from certain activities like philosophy, art or anything else that may have more meaning simply because they view themselves as not intelligent enough, or they don't want to be associated with a certain group of people. My point that I'm drilling here is that people must understand that you can't limit yourself, because in limiting yourself you limit your experience and ultimately your levels of happiness.

 

[Sacred Profane]

What's is your guys' problem with nerds?

No one has a prob with nerds -_-

 

[infoterror]

Some friends probably gave up on metal and got IT jobs.

Obviously the response of an intelligent world.

 

[the alumnus]

stupid people also commit suicide. however, it seems pretty obvious that jon nodtveidt was not mentally healthy. its a shame he never got treatment. maybe a little prozac?

 

[infoterror]

it seems pretty obvious that jon nodtveidt was not mentally healthy.

Please, save us from the mentally healthy guitarists then.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Depression is a very complex and misunderstood disorder. People who have had all their dreams come true and have reached all their goals in life kill themselves. It's a great shame, but until there is a better understanding of depression and how to treat it, it will continue to claim lives.