Will this be the end of it?

I however, do not have Jon or Jeff in my sig and Avatar (see, a savatage joke), nor do I link to their myspace or home page. I just really hope you don't listen to Lil Jon, because with all of your stroking, I don't know if we could handle the skeet skeet, goddamn.

Brent

Brent, I'm not sure exactly what your problem is, except maybe the fact that me and your boy (Kaosaur) had a bit of a debate. By the way, I do respect Kaosaur's opinions. I guess you felt like you needed to be "metal", put your two cents in, and attempt to stir up some shit. You may get some pleasure from that, but I don't know. Your post above is very childish and it makes me laugh to be honest. There's not anything wrong with me being a "fanboy" of the Oliva brothers. If that bothers you so bad, then that's simply your problem to deal with. I have so much respect for Jon Oliva that I'll support him in anything that he does. To my knowledge, he's currently working on a Broadway play, which I'd love to support in some form or fashion.

With that said, I met and talked with you during the Iced Earth set at PPIX and thought you were cool to watch a show with. I say that, because you might want to think about how you react and treat people here to save yourself some face. Plus, you do represent Nightmare Records at the festival, so I'm sure Lance wouldn't appreciate you possibly driving away some business. Just something to think about...

If that doesn't bother you, well hey, you're free to act anyway you choose.

If everyone does not object... perhaps I could offer
a bit of inside, honest dialogue of this ongoing situation.

As one of a handful of people that has had the priviledge and
honor of recording and performing with such a talent for the
past 6 years, I hope that my opinion will not be looked on as over-appreciation for what he has given all of us...
Oliva/JOP/Savatage/TSO fans.

In a nutshell, Jon Oliva wants to do what is best for Jon
and most of all...what is enjoyable to him now.

He has a family to support, but he wants to enjoy the
latter part of his career on his terms. He's not out there
to be rock-star guy (which he never is).

JO is the most honest, caring and musically brilliant person
you could ever meet. He doesn't waste his "genius-time"
worrying about anything else other than where the next
great song might come from. He's a songwriter, focused 110%
24/7 on writing music that inspires him and what makes him
happy....that's it!


JOP is no revenue stream for Jon..trust me! But it is what
makes him happy! He freely admits that he is still traveling
his musical journey. JO is like the energizer bunny, and
we all want a genius to do what he does best...so extend him
a bit of happiness for all he has given us.

Media sorts focus on the questionable/negative aspects of
anything because it gets you to go to their website or buy
their magazine. Oliva has done his very, very best to be HONEST
about everything. He has released several formal statements
with regards to this subject...and frankly he just wants some
peace and for people to focus on the present and the real future.

Oliva/JOP pays homage to Savatage/Criss Oliva on every Cd and
every live show. He TRULY respects the fans, his past and knows that without that/you he would not be able to do what he does today.

He has no desire to slow down...and we are already in pre-production
with new material. And he is also working on other TSO projects as well.

Oliva does not focus one minute on the past or resurrecting it
And frankly if he did..we would all support his decision to do so.
He just wants the opportunity to share as many of his musical
idea's to the world as possible as long as he as able...THAT'S IT!

JO has never, ever been on the internet...and I for one am thankful
that he has not. No telling how the years of chatter might stifle his
sheer artistry.

Cheers

Chris, well said! It's cool to have a member of the Pain to give us some perspective. :kickass:

~Brian~
 
I first heard Savatage in about 1984. I was completely blown away. I was an instant fan. At the time, I had just started seriously playing guitar and Randy Rhoads was my biggest influence. In the years that ensued, I began to truly appreciate the guitar mastery of Criss Oliva, the pure originality of the Savatage sound, and the truly unique and inspiring songwriting and vocal talents of Jon Oliva.

Some of you probably remember cassette tapes. I wore out or broke 4 copies of Gutter Ballet as I could not listen to anything else for about 2 years. Then Streets came out and due to the circumstances of my life its message of addiction, failure, tragedy, and redemption changed my life. I was fortunate enough to see Savatage on that tour at the Omni in Oakland, California. There were probably 50 people there, maximum. The room had a capacity for about 300. It was a crappy, raining November night, and Criss, Jon, Johnny, and Doc just totally blew my mind. I had won tickets on a local radio station to see the show. The question to win the tickets was to name 4 of the songs from the new album. Probably doesnt sound like much of a contest but the album had just been released three days prior to the show and I had already word THAT cassette out completely.

I remember hearing that Jon had left the band for greener pastures. I was truly bummed out believing that I would never again have the opportunity to see the master perform again.

One day in 1993 I was flipping through the Savatage collection at a record store in the mall (yeah, they actually still had records AND record stores in 1993) and I saw a cover that I had never seen before. I thought that maybe the band had an import I hadn't heard of and that is when the title jumped out at me. It was called 'Edge of Thorns'. Shaking with excitement I plunked down my $8.99 (yeah, they used to be cheap too) and raced to my waiting Iroc-Z in the parking lot, slammed the tape into the deck, and waited to hear just how much I was going to hate this new, Zachary Stevens guy. I get goosebumps even now remembering the experience of hearing what was not just an adequate replacement for the legend that is Jon Oliva, but a man that created an entirely new era for a band that set standards that are even just today being hungrily pursued by so many musicians from my generation, and from the new.

I had a similar experience in finding Dead Winter Dead in a record store, completely unaware that a new album had been released. This was just around the time that the internet had started becoming widely used and there were as of yet limited resources for finding out what was due out for my metal hungry ears.

I found Caffery and Middleton on AOL in about 1998. Both of them responded to every email I sent them and we had developed an internet friendship that has actually blossomed into a personal friendship. Caff and I have hung out on many occasions and JLM and I have talked at several TSO shows.

When the Wake of Magellan was due for release, I had planned a listening party in Vegas where I was living for 30 of my closest friends. I bought the album the day before the party and sweated it out for 24 hours not listening to the CD until the party started. I emailed Caffery about it and he sent me his personal phone number so that we could call him from the party and tell him what we thought. I am sure that any of you that remember hearing it for the first time were just as blown away as we were. I called Chris and we talked for an hour or two, passing the phone around to the other people at my listening party so they could give him their impressions as well.

I remember Caffery saying to me something like "hey man, listen to this sound and tell me what you think it is' - I listened for a moment, and I heard the sound of what had to be some impossible buzz saw making a HUGE racket on the phone. Chris came back on the line and asked me what i thought it was. I told him I had no idea. He laughed and said 'No man, that is the Mountain King. He is asleep on my couch" and proceeded to laugh his ass off. I guess it was MLB PLayoff season and he and Jon were at his apartment in New York watching the game and Jon fell asleep. Hilarious!

A few years ago, I was introduced to Zak Stevens by Circle II Circle bass player Mitch Stewart. Zak and I became fast friends. I was asked to join CIIC on their 09 European tour to fill in for Bill Hudson on certain dates because of visa concerns in certain countries that may have created a problem for his playing in those countries. I learned the CIIC set in a few days and flew to Italy to meet the band.

Touring with CIIC and Zak was an incredible experience for me. And playing the set closer "Edge of Thorns" every night with Zak and the boys was a soggy dream come true. Zak, Mitch, Andy, Bill, and Tom are some of the best friends I have ever had and we are all still in close touch.

When I listen back to my album with Futures End 'Memoirs of a Broken Man' there is a completely unmistakable Oliva influence in my guitar playing, piano playing, and songwriting. It's funny because I never realized just how big the impact of the Oliva brothers was on my playing until I listened to my own record. Some of those guitar riffs are SO Criss its scary.

I saw JOP at Progpower a couple of years back. I was fortunate enough to be standing on the stage just off to stage right during the entire set. I wasn't sure what to expect, but I have to tell you that what I experienced was the music of Jon Oliva no matter how you slice it. Sure, the personnel is different, but the power and brilliance of Savatage, of Jon Oliva, of Criss Oliva, of JLM, of Doc Wacholz, of Jeff Plate, of Zak Stevens, of Al Pitrelli of Matt LePorte, of Tom McDyne, of Chris Kinder, of John Zahner, of Damond Jinaya and of Paul O'Neil is completely unmistakable with every note, and with every song. I was totally blown away with the band and with the songs that this genius and all those whom have worked with him brought us that night.

I have met so many rock stars and my old heroes since I have been in the business that I never get starstruck anymore... Until I met Jon Oliva after the show that night. And he was funny, kind, caring, engaging, and full of life and incredible stories. One of my most prized posessions is the picture I had taken of me and the Mountain King that night.

I understand the dissapointment of so many fans that will never see Savatage play. Honestly though, Criss died 14 years ago. Zak left 11 years ago. Doc left 12 years ago. Even when I was fortunate enough to see Savatage Chris Caffery was not with the band anymore, and that was all the way back in 1991. When you go see JOP you are STILL seeing the masterful metal power of what WAS and will ALWAYS BE Savatage. And that is Jon Oliva and his incredible team of some of the most talented players in the world. Please don't cheapen that amazing expereince of seeing JOP or CIIC play by wishing it was simply with a different line up of musicians. The song remains the same...

Christian David Wentz
Futures End
 
I first heard Savatage in about 1984. I was completely blown away. I was an instant fan. At the time, I had just started seriously playing guitar and Randy Rhoads was my biggest influence. In the years that ensued, I began to truly appreciate the guitar mastery of Criss Oliva, the pure originality of the Savatage sound, and the truly unique and inspiring songwriting and vocal talents of Jon Oliva.

Some of you probably remember cassette tapes. I wore out or broke 4 copies of Gutter Ballet as I could not listen to anything else for about 2 years. Then Streets came out and due to the circumstances of my life its message of addiction, failure, tragedy, and redemption changed my life. I was fortunate enough to see Savatage on that tour at the Omni in Oakland, California. There were probably 50 people there, maximum. The room had a capacity for about 300. It was a crappy, raining November night, and Criss, Jon, Johnny, and Doc just totally blew my mind. I had won tickets on a local radio station to see the show. The question to win the tickets was to name 4 of the songs from the new album. Probably doesnt sound like much of a contest but the album had just been released three days prior to the show and I had already word THAT cassette out completely.

I remember hearing that Jon had left the band for greener pastures. I was truly bummed out believing that I would never again have the opportunity to see the master perform again.

One day in 1993 I was flipping through the Savatage collection at a record store in the mall (yeah, they actually still had records AND record stores in 1993) and I saw a cover that I had never seen before. I thought that maybe the band had an import I hadn't heard of and that is when the title jumped out at me. It was called 'Edge of Thorns'. Shaking with excitement I plunked down my $8.99 (yeah, they used to be cheap too) and raced to my waiting Iroc-Z in the parking lot, slammed the tape into the deck, and waited to hear just how much I was going to hate this new, Zachary Stevens guy. I get goosebumps even now remembering the experience of hearing what was not just an adequate replacement for the legend that is Jon Oliva, but a man that created an entirely new era for a band that set standards that are even just today being hungrily pursued by so many musicians from my generation, and from the new.

I had a similar experience in finding Dead Winter Dead in a record store, completely unaware that a new album had been released. This was just around the time that the internet had started becoming widely used and there were as of yet limited resources for finding out what was due out for my metal hungry ears.

I found Caffery and Middleton on AOL in about 1998. Both of them responded to every email I sent them and we had developed an internet friendship that has actually blossomed into a personal friendship. Caff and I have hung out on many occasions and JLM and I have talked at several TSO shows.

When the Wake of Magellan was due for release, I had planned a listening party in Vegas where I was living for 30 of my closest friends. I bought the album the day before the party and sweated it out for 24 hours not listening to the CD until the party started. I emailed Caffery about it and he sent me his personal phone number so that we could call him from the party and tell him what we thought. I am sure that any of you that remember hearing it for the first time were just as blown away as we were. I called Chris and we talked for an hour or two, passing the phone around to the other people at my listening party so they could give him their impressions as well.

I remember Caffery saying to me something like "hey man, listen to this sound and tell me what you think it is' - I listened for a moment, and I heard the sound of what had to be some impossible buzz saw making a HUGE racket on the phone. Chris came back on the line and asked me what i thought it was. I told him I had no idea. He laughed and said 'No man, that is the Mountain King. He is asleep on my couch" and proceeded to laugh his ass off. I guess it was MLB PLayoff season and he and Jon were at his apartment in New York watching the game and Jon fell asleep. Hilarious!

A few years ago, I was introduced to Zak Stevens by Circle II Circle bass player Mitch Stewart. Zak and I became fast friends. I was asked to join CIIC on their 09 European tour to fill in for Bill Hudson on certain dates because of visa concerns in certain countries that may have created a problem for his playing in those countries. I learned the CIIC set in a few days and flew to Italy to meet the band.

Touring with CIIC and Zak was an incredible experience for me. And playing the set closer "Edge of Thorns" every night with Zak and the boys was a soggy dream come true. Zak, Mitch, Andy, Bill, and Tom are some of the best friends I have ever had and we are all still in close touch.

When I listen back to my album with Futures End 'Memoirs of a Broken Man' there is a completely unmistakable Oliva influence in my guitar playing, piano playing, and songwriting. It's funny because I never realized just how big the impact of the Oliva brothers was on my playing until I listened to my own record. Some of those guitar riffs are SO Criss its scary.

I saw JOP at Progpower a couple of years back. I was fortunate enough to be standing on the stage just off to stage right during the entire set. I wasn't sure what to expect, but I have to tell you that what I experienced was the music of Jon Oliva no matter how you slice it. Sure, the personnel is different, but the power and brilliance of Savatage, of Jon Oliva, of Criss Oliva, of JLM, of Doc Wacholz, of Jeff Plate, of Zak Stevens, of Al Pitrelli of Matt LePorte, of Tom McDyne, of Chris Kinder, of John Zahner, of Damond Jinaya and of Paul O'Neil is completely unmistakable with every note, and with every song. I was totally blown away with the band and with the songs that this genius and all those whom have worked with him brought us that night.

I have met so many rock stars and my old heroes since I have been in the business that I never get starstruck anymore... Until I met Jon Oliva after the show that night. And he was funny, kind, caring, engaging, and full of life and incredible stories. One of my most prized posessions is the picture I had taken of me and the Mountain King that night.

I understand the dissapointment of so many fans that will never see Savatage play. Honestly though, Criss died 14 years ago. Zak left 11 years ago. Doc left 12 years ago. Even when I was fortunate enough to see Savatage Chris Caffery was not with the band anymore, and that was all the way back in 1991. When you go see JOP you are STILL seeing the masterful metal power of what WAS and will ALWAYS BE Savatage. And that is Jon Oliva and his incredible team of some of the most talented players in the world. Please don't cheapen that amazing expereince of seeing JOP or CIIC play by wishing it was simply with a different line up of musicians. The song remains the same...

Christian David Wentz
Futures End

That. Was. Awesome.
 
I really hope there is not another Savatage reunion, because Jon would be doing it for the wrong reasons. If he ever decided that HE wanted to do it, for his own enjoyment, instead of someone else's, then it would be the right time. But honestly, I don't think it will ever happen, and I for one would hate to see "Savatage" where Jon's mind and spirit are not in it 100%. And as for your last post EdgeofThorns, I am a nice guy to watch a show with, but I do not hold back my opinions for anyone and I REALLY hate whining. Hence my previous posts in this thread on the subject. Sorry if you don't like it, but seriously, I could give a ****.
 
I really hope there is not another Savatage reunion, because Jon would be doing it for the wrong reasons. If he ever decided that HE wanted to do it, for his own enjoyment, instead of someone else's, then it would be the right time. But honestly, I don't think it will ever happen, and I for one would hate to see "Savatage" where Jon's mind and spirit are not in it 100%. And as for your last post EdgeofThorns, I am a nice guy to watch a show with, but I do not hold back my opinions for anyone and I REALLY hate whining. Hence my previous posts in this thread on the subject. Sorry if you don't like it, but seriously, I could give a ****.

Exactly. If his heart isn't in it, he shouldn't do it, and I'm one of those that have never seen them live. I must say though, seeing JOP live did it for me.
 
I honestly believe that Jon wants the Savatage name to be Criss' legacy, and if he used it anymore it would cheapen it.

And let's face it, a "farewell" show in Tampa would probably be pretty big, but a whole tour wouldn't do much business. After seeing all the empty clubs on the Magellan and Poets tours (although Cleveland did pretty well) 9 years later they would just draw a few die-hards and that's about it.
 
First off, there is no bigger a Savatage/Jon and Criss Oliva fan than I. These men's music, along with Paul O'Neill, affected my life in a very positive way (especially the STREETS/Gutter Ballet era) and helped mold me into the person I am now becoming.

In my mind, Savatage died on a blustry night in October, 1993 in Florida. I really like the post Criss (RIP, my brother) Savatage, but it was just, IMO, Jon keeping his brother's legacy alive. TSO was born out of the post-Criss Savatage era and Savatage died a natural death. I miss Savatage as much or more than anyone I know, but Savatage can and should rest in peace as well.

Frankly, I would rather hear JOP playing old school Savatage than a collection of Caffery, Doc, Middleton, and maybe Zak. Matt plays Criss better than anyone I have ever seen (sorry, Biff). And Jon still sings Jon, with no discernable loss of vocal quality and range. Since we can't bring Criss back (although I hope to meet him someday), JOP is gonna have to do (and does!!) as far as Savatage is concerned. I think it a blessing that Jon so loves Savatage, he dedicates over (no - WAY over) half his setlist to Sava songs, taking away from his new material, which, IMO is as good as any thing he did in Savatage.

Just my $0.02 from a die-hard Savatage fan. But you have to agree, what a strange road it has been with Jon getting his due for his genius with unsuspecting TSO fans!! :heh:

I love you, man!!

Chris :headbang:
 
JTJeff: By all reports that I have read, and asked, Savatage never played to 5x the crowds that JOP plays to.
 
And as for your last post EdgeofThorns, I am a nice guy to watch a show with, but I do not hold back my opinions for anyone and I REALLY hate whining. Hence my previous posts in this thread on the subject. Sorry if you don't like it, but seriously, I could give a ****.

Brent, you take care of yourself and that "metal" attitude of yours. Consider me off Savatage stroking somewhere... :p

~Brian~
 
Damn straight! No matter how good the players in ANY reunion band are, it’s never going to be the same. And people constantly ragging on Jon, Chris, Doc and Johnny Lee about a “reunion” are, as Chris just said, only making them relive their loss. Be happy that we all had the privilege and joy of listening to them make music together that we love, and enjoy what they all have put out since that dark day.
 
Hey you're good.

One thing for sure is all of us would be happy to see a Savatage (or another Jon Oliva's Pain) appearance at Progpower USA anytime. Just so you know, the #1 fan of Savatage/JOP is the PPUSA promoter, Glenn Harveston, so if it can happen, it will. Glenn & Jon have a good relationship, so there is a very good chance it will happen again - probably to close out the 25th edition of the festival which will be Glenn's last as a promoter.
 
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