Would you accept re-done vocals on self titled Theocracy album?

[Child Of God]

Hum that's a hard question.
I think the vocals on the first album were very good on some songs (Theocracy for exemple), and sound more... "natural" (or less "worked") than those from AtWB (even if they sound better). There's something I love with vocals on the self titled, but also sometimes things I don't like too much.
I thing some songs would fit for a redo of the vocals with the current style, but for some others I don't think it will work (like Theocracy : the chorus are just beautiful with a lot of emotion).

BUT I think Matt could do a great job even of the songs I mentioned (that kind of songs you don't want to change ), and I think I will surprise us anyway

 

[Teo]

tl;dr
Why not wait til the band has 5-6 albums and then re-release the first album, this way it's just silly...will they remake it for a third try after a couple of more albums?

That makes sense. Every release brings more fans and more attention to the band. By the time they make it to the 5th or 6th CD there will be enough fans to make the re-release worth it.

 

[RichS]

I think it should be left alone, completely. I don't like remakes in movies and especially not in music.

 

[Aletheus]

Yeah but think of Edguy's Savage Poetry from 1995 and The Savage poetry from 2000.

That was their dumbest move in my honest opinion. They should've either waited for the 10 or 20 year anniversary of the album to re-record it or leave it alone. Theocracy has no reason to redo their/Matt's first album at this point in time.

Anyone who's familiar with Edguy's and Avantasia's sound can give these two songs a listen and by all means compare them to the music from Tinnitus Sanctus, Avantasia, Robin Hood (in terms of musicianship, arrangement, sound quality).

(1995 Key To My Fate)

(2000 Key To My Fate)

 

[SeaStorm]

I see a piece of artwork as a moment in time. It says something about the times we live in (or lived it at that time) and the artist's place at that time. I don't think anyone is against going back and fixing obvious errors or deficiencies (like the drum machine), but as soon as you talk about "improving" things that are already good, you are changing the art.

Just in this thread, asking about redoing the vocals has led to people asking for new guitar work from Val; redoing the vocals, drums, bass, keys, and guitars (multiple people on this one); making structural and melody changes; and possibly even removing the speaking part of Serpent's Kiss (which is awesome IMO!) :zombie: Wow

There's a reason most older guys hate the Star Wars re-releases. Rather than simply fix obvious special effects mistakes, George Lucas said "well, as long as I'm in here, let me add a few scenes I always wished where there, oh, and let's change the scene so that Greedo shot first". He took a wonderful piece of art that said something about us and him from 1977-1983 and destroyed it IMO.

I totally get that this ablum needs to get re-released and made available, but I will apparently be part of a minority of people saddened if it turns into a different piece of art in the process.

 

[SeaStorm]

I wonder: it would be interesting to see when people first heard the debut album and how that affects their opinion. I would posit that those of us who fell in love with Theocracy while the debut was the only album available (2003-2008) typically don't want vocal changes now, and those who came on board with Mos or ATWB and went backwards to the debut typically do want vocal (or more) changes.

For me, I fell in love with that album and listened to it for 4 years before any other Theocracy music was available. This album and my love for it was partially the soundtrack of my life from 2004-2008. I'm sure that's where my strong feelings on this topic come from. If you weren't a part of that place in time, I'm sure you wouldn't care about changing it now, but I do!

 

[Teo]

Here's what Symphony X did with Masquerade. If you except the intro and outro, the song has the same structure but re-recorded and remixed from the ground up. In the beginning I didn't like the new version because I already loved the original, but I eventually got to like the remake more.

Original (1994)


Remake (1998)

 

[Atreides]

I can see the Star Wars analogy, and agree to a certain extent that those of us who discovered Theocracy through the s/t would not want to see it disappear in the same way the original Star Wars movies essentially disappeared.

However... there is a huge difference: Somewhere along the line, Lucas got too much power, money, and control, and lost any sense of artistic judgment that he had before, and suddenly nobody was there to question him when he was wrong. The Special Editions are not just a matter of young fans versus old fans: Lucas took several of his newer, less savory tendencies that would fully blossom in the prequels (adolescent use of technological innovation, cartoony CGI, tendency to see Star Wars as "children's movies") and imported them into the special editions, more and more with every new edition. They are patched-together by someone who clearly doesn't "get" them - the original artist, long past his peak.

The appeal of redoing Theocracy is of hearing a band that is now on an upward climb, coming into their own, take older material and reinterpret it through a more mature lens, with a full band on board. Kind of like what Iced Earth did with "Days of Purgatory." I'm not a big IE fan, but once Jon found Matt Barlow, who was the perfect fit for IE at that time and filled out the sound, he went back to the albums before Matt to give him a crack at the songs and polish them up a bit while they were at it. They still have the original album available, but DoP is also there if you want to hear a different take.

That would be my ideal situation with the s/t, and it is not what Lucas has done with Star Wars. He has robbed the originals from us and refused to give them back in any substantially adequate way.

 

[JayArby]

I was one of those who was introduced to MoS before the self-titled album. But in all honesty, if I had been introduced to the first album first, I probably would have written Theocracy off without giving it a chance, because the vocals are so off-pitch in places. I was much more open-minded when I did listen to it, because I realized what an amazing band Theocracy would become. Thus when I listened to the first album my focus was on the songs and instrumentals rather than vocal performance. So the songs are what I love about the first album, not the performance.

 

[Teo]

off-pitch? When exactly does that happen?

 

[Matt Smith]

Nah Seastorm, I'm right there with you. I totally get it, and that's why I brought that point up in the interview. Plus, to be honest, the thought of putting that kind of work into something I've already done once just fills me with dread. Each Theocracy album has literally made me physically sick; I don't sleep, I work around the clock, and if I'm not working, I'm obsessing over it in my mind. It's difficult enough to get motivated to go through that again with new projects, much less old ones, you know? Even just recording real drums and remixing it is going to be so much work that I don't even want to think about it.

We have to do something soon, because it's totally out of print and people are constantly asking for it. But I think a remix with real drums is as much as I'll want to do. Although I do like the idea of maybe picking a couple of tracks and recording full-band, up-to-date versions of those as extra tracks or something. We shall see.

 

[FleshAndBloodTheocracy]

Honestly, neither the vocals nor the drums are what bugs me about the self-titled. It's just the mix. The guitars sound too....I don't know....buried? So, while adding drums will breathe more life into the album I'm sure, I'm just happy it's getting remixed because Matt has gotten SO much better at that sort of stuff in the last decade.

 

[JayArby]

off-pitch? When exactly does that happen?

Well, it's all throughout the album, really. It's not really *that* bad, it's just enough that it annoys me somewhat. Not to insult Matt--in MoS and AtWB, he's always right on the money. Theocracy is my favorite band of all time, for the record. And I still listen to the first album; I just don't enjoy it as much as the other two.

Anyway, if you can't hear it, maybe you're lucky, because you can enjoy the album that much more than I can.

 

[Ichthus]

I see a piece of artwork as a moment in time. It says something about the times we live in (or lived it at that time) and the artist's place at that time. I don't think anyone is against going back and fixing obvious errors or deficiencies (like the drum machine), but as soon as you talk about "improving" things are are already good, you are changing the art.

I totally get that this ablum needs to get re-released and made available, but I will apparently be part of a minority of people saddened if it turns into a different piece of art in the process.

I completely agree with you. There's nothing wrong with art reflecting the journey of the artist. Then again, I picked Theocracy up in 2006 and have little ear for the intricacies of music. I was impressed then and still am that one person recorded that album and did it well enough that I still want to listen to them now. For whatever flaws it has, I've gotten more hours out of this album than any other I've ever owned.

 

[M@RS]

I personally would prefer the old vocals. Now go take a vacation Matt.

 

[Arnock]

I think I'm with seastorm on this, a work of art should be left largely untampered in my opinion. No matter how hard the band tries to remain true to the album's original sound, it WOULD be different, and I'm not sure that I'd like that very much. I could see re-recording the drums, or even just re-releasing the album untampered, but I don't think that the whole album should be re-recorded.


On the other hand, I wouldn't be opposed to the band doing one or two songs, to be released as bonus tracks on other albums, or even as singles, but not the entire album.

 

[Atreides]

Well, there are certainly more important things than satisfying the endless possibilities that we zealots can dream up in our heads -I'd love to hear it, but I vote "Matt gets sleep" over "re-recorded Theocracy album"

 

[Aish!]

Will the album art be changed too?
(Thanks SeaStorm for reminding me of that!)

 

[SeaStorm]

Will the album art be changed too?
(Thanks SeaStorm for reminding me of that!)

I hope not, because the artwork is brilliant! When I wear my shirt with the album cover on the front, I have people stop me and ask me about the band just because the artwork is so cool.

the vocals are so off-pitch in places

For the record, I also have never noticed this. And my wife, who's a musician and notices this kind of thing way more than I do, has never mentioned it when we listen to it.

 

[Aletheus]

Woah hold the pluck up!

Re-recording/remixing or rewhatever the drums is not the way to go!

If you're going to go through trouble to create a better version why do a half-assed job?

Why not just release more copies of the original, people would love to have the original album and when the time comes (in 50 years or so) you can redo the whole thing, not just the drums...

Maybe you should set up a poll whether or not the drums sound "bad" to the general public. Ask MetalAges to set it up so more people could vote (and add a little sample track of 30 seconds from the first album so the people know what they're judging).

Just my two cents.