Yngwie is still the man

[Taliwakker]

I just cant understand how you can call him a mediocore improviser and how cant you and some poeople cant hear and see how amazing he is good at it.

Because he improvises over simple chord progressions...sometimes the same chord progressions and he uses licks we've all heard him play a million times before...He is nowhere near of the improv callibre of Holdsworth, Lane, Gambale, Howe etc...thats why people are saying it.
He is a great player and its cool that he doesn't play the same structured solos night after night....but there are quite a number of players (mainly jazz/ fusion guys) that do it infinately better.

 

[Yngvai X]

Because he improvises over simple chord progressions...sometimes the same chord progressions and he uses licks we've all heard him play a million times before...He is nowhere near of the improv callibre of Holdsworth, Lane, Gambale, Howe etc...thats why people are saying it.
He is a great player and its cool that he doesn't play the same structured solos night after night....but there are quite a number of players (mainly jazz/ fusion guys) that do it infinately better.

You just named fusion guys. I said from my first post that he has great improv skill for a METAL guitarist, and that of course fusion guys have more chops, because the basis of fusion is improvisation over jazz changes.

 

[soulshred]

And improv skills in my opinion isnt all theory altough thats the biggest part of it. Altough it is very stupid to compare, most of those fusion guys cant touch Yngwies tone in his hands. I would rather listen to him burning over a simple chord then jazz,fusion guys playing dull lines very intelligently. Yngwie is an amazing improviser what ever anyone says

 

[Valgeir]

Eh.. light years aren't speed, they're distance.


You are correct in saying a light year is not a measurement of speed. However, he said x number of light years per second. That, my friend, is speed. ZINGERRRR

Alright, fine, you're right, you got me. Ya gotta understand, I see people mixing up what a light year is all the time, and it kind of annoys me by now, so I'm constantly on guard. By the way, I'm a student of Matt's, so I heard your recording for his album and checked out some of your other stuff. You're seriously talented, man.

Oh, and on the whole improvising thing... if you don't like what he plays, you can just not listen to it. There are a million other guys to listen to.

 

[kazahana]

You just named fusion guys. I said from my first post that he has great improv skill for a METAL guitarist, and that of course fusion guys have more chops, because the basis of fusion is improvisation over jazz changes.

YES! A lot of arguments I see about Yngwie seem to revolve around fusion elitists citing Holdsworth and the others as being faster/more varied, and you are quite right to point out that they are fusion while Yngwie is metal. There's something about the way Yngwie uses "standard" progressions and scales that is so very badass that fusion just can't match for me.

Don't get me wrong though - I love jazz and respect all the musicians cited to the utmost degree.

 

[rockyracoon]

Plus Yngwie gets bonus points for being the first. Shred would not exist without him in the metal scene, and that is a fact.

Wrong. Shred would exist without him because someone else would have done it. To think that shred would not exist had Yngwie not come along is just ridiculous. That's like saying if whoever invented the E Chord hadnt done it, we wouldnt have it today. Clearly there are always other musicians out there experimenting and coming up with new ideas and approaches, but just because someone does something first doesnt make them a God.

 

[MC Pee pants]

We look upon lewis and clark over in america pretty highly, and I believe for the "rediculous" reason of going somewhere first. And not even first, they were just the first to tell the rest of america what was over here.
And even if someone else did begin shred, it wouldn't be the same as it is now, which is pretty damn good.

 

[Yngvai X]

We look upon lewis and clark over in america pretty highly, and I believe for the "rediculous" reason of going somewhere first. And not even first, they were just the first to tell the rest of america what was over here.
And even if someone else did begin shred, it wouldn't be the same as it is now, which is pretty damn good.

Exactly, someone else might have done something similar, but not like Yngwie.

 

[Taliwakker]

Y.X wrote

You just named fusion guys. I said from my first post that he has great improv skill for a METAL guitarist,

I know...but i don't see why the fact that he plays METAL should be a factor in judging his improv skills....he plays guitar...he has the same 12 notes available as every other western guitarist....and the simple nature of the chords he plays over offers up more improv possibilities than a group of chords with 5 or 6 different notes in them.
I could say that James LaBrie is a good rapper for a prog-rock singer (i'd be lying)...but the way i see it is that regardless of genre you should be judged on the end result....and in this case the improv yardstick for guitar is Holdsworth and Malmsteen is lightyears behind...nearly everyone is though.

 

[ABQShredHead]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth When did I say that?

Being able to improvise well shows a greater overall command of your instrument than someone who can't. Thats why fusion players usually kick the shit out of metal guitarists when it comes to improv, because the nature of jazz is improv. But that doesn't mean someone who can't improvise well sucks.

Word to this argument. I don't think anybody on this forum can argue the point made herein. Jazz and fusion players will rip your face off completely off the cuff. Hit a John Scofield show and enjoy yourselves.

And Yngwie at any point in his career was, is, and forever will be THE GOD OF SHRED GUITAR. There is no arguing the point. He forever changed the face of rock and metal guitar - there would be no Paul Gilbert without Yngwie. And he opened the door for any and all neo-classical guitar players.

'nuff said.

 

[Yngvai X]

Word to this argument. I don't think anybody on this forum can argue the point made herein. Jazz and fusion players will rip your face off completely off the cuff. Hit a John Scofield show and enjoy yourselves.

And Yngwie at any point in his career was, is, and forever will be THE GOD OF SHRED GUITAR. There is no arguing the point. He forever changed the face of rock and metal guitar - there would be no Paul Gilbert without Yngwie. And he opened the door for any and all neo-classical guitar players.

'nuff said.

Honestly, I think the reason Yngwie gets as much shit as he does is for things not even related to music...people are offput by his attitude or his ego, the fact that for most of the 90s he tried to fit into his stage clothes from the 80s while his body had gone on to...uh, bigger things so to speak (he still wears the frilly shirts but at least he lost a couple of pounds). Not to mention his whole onstage personna is VERY 80's, very rockstar, which isn't very popular these days. So I think a large part of the Yngwie bashing stems from these things and not from his actual playing.

 

[Horus]

If I could control it, I'd so put together that 80's overexagerated theatrical style showmanship (Judas Priest) and good music. (That doesn't even need parenthases.) If the Iron Maiden, fighting Eddie on stage style showmanship were still popular, then I can guarantee that we'd have world peace in less than 50 years.

 

[Platinum Maze]

Knowing MJR, I'm going to say that it's more likely him being a perfectionist that keeps him from doing much improvising on stage, than any lack of skill or talent at it..better to go with what's proven than to experiment & have the timing end up off or the like, & throw the whole song into a headspin.

This is what I think is Yngwie's problem, more than anything, and not just for the sake of the audience. Sometimes his band becomes lost. I know he loses me with his improvisation in Far Beyond the Sun. He is also usually way too loud. It's hard to even hear what the rest of the band is doing.

I saw him for the 9th time back on 11/26 when he played the George Lynch/Sebastian Bach/Yngwie/Twisted Sister show in Poughkeepsie, NY. He was not the headliner, so he only played like 50-60 minutes. But he only played like 7 or 8 songs in that hour, and his soloing lasted probably 15 minutes, which became annoying for such a short set. I've been a huge fan of his since 84 - and the first time I saw him was 85 - but his set drained all the life out of the crowd after Bach's incredible set with Wolf Hoffman on guitar. btw, Twisted Sister just blew him off the stage.

Hey, I know I'll never come close to playing like him, but other than a handful of moments when you're like "WHAT THE F WAS THAT?!?!", his live soloing, improvised or not, IMO has become somewhat stale and monotonous.

I really wasn't there to see YJM, but I will not be going out of my way to see him in the future, unless he happens to be opening for someone I'm dying to see...

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

A lot of you guys have to realize that when you go see Yngwie, you're seeing a solo artist with a backing band. That's why the show centers on him. Yeah, I'd rather see a more band-oriented show (and hear band-oriented music), but it's Yngwie's call.

 

[rockyracoon]

A lot of you guys have to realize that when you go see Yngwie, you're seeing a solo artist with a backing band. That's why the show centers on him. Yeah, I'd rather see a more band-oriented show (and hear band-oriented music), but it's Yngwie's call.

Of course the show centers on him, but that doesnt need to come at the expense of the mix and sound quality. When I go see any solo artist, I want the entire sound to come through. There is zero point in turning yourself up at the expense of the overall sound.

 

[Meedleyx10]

i just can't get the fact that you guys are saying shred wouldn't have existed without Yngwie. It's like you guys are giving him credit for inventing fast guitar playing. There were other shredders whose albums came out within a year or less of Yngwie's debut. I guarantee you that those guys would have released those albums regardless of Yngwie. Its not like they were playing classic rock one day, then heard Yngwie and became insanely fast shred players and released albums within 8 months.

Despite how it may seem, I do enjoy some of Yngwie's stuff and own almost all his albums. I think he's done some great stuff..........but i think some people give him way more credit that he deserves.

 

[Yngvai X]

i just can't get the fact that you guys are saying shred wouldn't have existed without Yngwie. It's like you guys are giving him credit for inventing fast guitar playing. There were other shredders whose albums came out within a year or less of Yngwie's debut. I guarantee you that those guys would have released those albums regardless of Yngwie. Its not like they were playing classic rock one day, then heard Yngwie and became insanely fast shred players and released albums within 8 months.

Oh yea? The Steeler and Alcatrazz albums came out in 1983 (and his demo tapes were around before that). What metal albums came out in 1984 or earlier that had neoclassical shred played the way Yngwie did on it?

Remember, fusion guitarists don't count.

Just as a reminder:

Paul Gilbert (Racer X)'s first album: 1986

Vinnie Moore (Vicious Rumors)'s first album: 1985

Jason Becker (Cacophony)' first album: 1986 (by the way, if you've seen Jason Becker's DVD, theres video of him performing Yngwie's "Black Star" at a high school talent show).

Tony MacAlpine's first album: 1985

Greg Howe's first album (even tho, like MacAlpine I'd consider him a fusion player now): 1988

Alright, so I just listed 5 of the top "shrapnel" dudes from the 80's and not one of them had an album out less than 2 years after Yngwie made his major release debuts. And 2 years is plenty of time for any aspiring guitar virtuosos who already had the Van Halen, Blackmore, Roth, and Rhoads books' of licks down to assimilate the new shred sound that Yngwie unleashed.

 

[Horus]

Neo-Classical shredding is different from straight up Speed Metal shredding. That's like comparing Yngwie to Kirk Hammet. It doesn't work.

 

[Yngvai X]

Neo-Classical shredding is different from straight up Speed Metal shredding. That's like comparing Yngwie to Kirk Hammet. It doesn't work.

Not really...because "Kirk Hammett" and "shredder" or even "good guitarist" shouldn't be used in the same sentence unless its preceeded with "is not a".

 

[Horus]

Good point.