your definition of progressive rock

[Kenneth R.]

I don't know about getting owned... By his "boundary breaking" definition, the first punk band is considered prog because they were "innovative" and "creative..."

i'd agree and by my definition they'd be progressive.

"prog" isn't limited to metal and rock. it's not necessary to include organs or jazz as NFU said above. "prog" is Change! any change. this could be time signature change, style change, instrumental changes, lyrical, anything. it does not have to be a technical change. as i said above, it can be interpretational or arranging.

a 3 chord song, if it does something no other 3 chord song has ever done, and does it effectively, is imo, prog. a song that uses unusual instruments to create a new kind of sound is prog. a band that may be mediocre instrumentally but writes lyrics that go where no one has before, and does it effectively, is prog.

prog is pushing the limits.

that does NOT necessarily mean technical or speed limits. those are included, but not limited to the art of progress. music can progress in any direction. if we only look into one aspect of change, we're ignoring so much in other areas.

a song does not have to be 20 min long, have chords only an alien could play, and change time signatures every beat with 6 guitar solos and a concept theme as well as spiraling keyboards and a 100 piece drumset. in fact, that's been done. to pull something like that again, without taking it somewhere new and different, is not prog. you can play any style of music you want, and if you don't take the next step, it's not prog.

the moment you walk onto untread ground, prog you are.

 

[Abhorsen]

I think of prog as any musical form that moves away from a more traditional song structure. Classical structure as well as jazz improv were big influences on many of the 70's prog bands. Take Yes' version of the Beatles Every Little Thing or Paul Simon's America. They take the basic song and develop it till it resembles the movement from a classical symphony. King Crimson always includes two or three improvs in their show and these are very much based on what players like John Coltrane were doing in the 1960's. BTW, I find Zeppelin's Achilles' Last Stand to be very progressive

 

[NFU]

What rick wakeman said in that interview would hold true for popular and well known progressive rock in the 70s or of Yes' music and the like more so than the genre as a whole. Up till now, theres been plenty of progressive and psychadelic bands which are more meat and potatoes than what rick explains should probably be included into the genre to make it progressive.

i think everyones statement has been important and valid here in one way or another...and i dont think i "own" anyone alternative...however this is the one genre i do take extremely seriously and passionately...so forgive me if i voice my opinion too intensely sometimes.


but id like to bring up one very obvious and necessary example here.

Opeth.

a progressive band (even if they are metal), but dont use any "classical" elements, or outlandish instruments...only subtle and occasional use of the keyboard and one instance of non-drum percussion to date...but their aproach to heavy music and the way theyve evolved and everything else makes them very unique and above the rest of their peers in almost every respect.

a good example of progressive rock without being flashy, cape wearing, classicaly inclined, with odd and different instruments, etc etc that wakeman expressed.

 

[the_3_toed_sloth]

Well im just happy that ive learnt enough about prog recently to know what 9feet's name means finally....ah, but still a long way to go....

On a side note, any reccomendations to listen to?

 

[NFU]

Well im just happy that ive learnt enough about prog recently to know what 9feet's name means finally....ah, but still a long way to go....

On a side note, any reccomendations to listen to?

always.

visit the "rare 70s prog" thread...im going to post a message with the ESSENTIAL progressive rock albums that everyone needs to check out when getting into the genre. so look for a recent post of mine...thats what it will be.

 

[NFU]

nevermind, i decided i will also post this list here, for anyone who doesnt want to go to another thread to get these suggestions...

Here is a decent starting off point for those wanting to get into this genre, but dont want to filter through the pile of pages this thread has...so heres a list for those just viewing this page for the first time, or those who havent visited it in a while, and some albums to try out to see if this genre is for you. Keep in mind these are some of my personal favorites, and theres always going to be room for debate on the classification of some of the bands...


Proto Prog and Early Prog & Psych (genre's origins or innovation):
The Beatles - Sgt. Peppers AND Abbey Road
The Moody Blues - In Search For The Lost Chord AND Days Of Future Passed
Traffic - Self Titled
Pink Floyd - Piper At The Gates Of Dawn
Led Zeppelin - Houses of The Holy
Procol Harum - Self Titled Debut

Symphonic Prog (classical and epic):
King Crimson - In the court of the crimson king
Yes - Close To The Edge
Yes - Fragile
Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick
Nektar - Remember The Future
Genesis - Selling England By The Pound
Emerson Lake & Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery

Standard Jam&Melodic as well as Canterbury (could be classified as symph):
Caravan - In The Land Of Grey And Pink
Camel - Mirage AND Moonmadness
Cressida - Asylum
Gracious - This is Gracious
Focus - Moving Waves
Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon

Kraut Rock & Space:
Agitation Free - Malesch
Neu - NEU!
Magma - Udu Wudu
Gong - Continental Circus AND You
Pink Floyd - meddle

Folk Prog (sometimes with country influences):
Trees - On The Shore
Tudor Lodge - S/T
Fuschia - S/T
Folque - Folque
Linda Perhacs - Parallelograms
Mellow Candle - Swaddling Songs

Hard Rock/Heavy progressive:
Rush - Hemispheres AND 2112
Uriah Heep - Magicians Birthday
Budgie - Self Titled
Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Deep Purple - Burn AND Stormbringer
Blackwater Park - Dirt Box
Lucifer's Friend - Self Titled
Fuzzy Duck - Self Titled

Neo 80s era Progressive (not nearly as good, but ill include it here):
IQ - Tales From The Lush Attic
Marillion - Script For A Jester's Tear
Ozric Tenticles - Tantric Obstacles
Alan Parson's Project - Turn Of A Friendly Card

Neo 90s Progressive/psych (the most ambitious work since the 70s):
Anglagard - Hybris AND Epilog
Anekdoten - Gravity AND
Landberk - One Man Tells Another
Morte Macabre - Symphonic Holocaust
Opeth - Any
Paatos - Timeloss AND Kallocain
Dungen - Ta Det Lungt
The Works - Debut
Radiohead - OK Computer
The Mars Volta - De Loused...
Porcupine Tree - Any

 

[JoeVice]

thanks ninefeet...thats a cool guide.

 

[Arnold Layne]

Mars Volta, its only been out a couple of years and you allready think its a classic? (not saying anything against the album - i quite like it)

 

[NFU]

Mars Volta, its only been out a couple of years and you allready think its a classic? (not saying anything against the album - i quite like it)

i listed the best of 90s and modern progressive rock in that section of the list...i didnt claim it was "classic" though...but no less worth checking out.

 

[Kenneth R.]

totally agreed.

 

[the_3_toed_sloth]

Cheers, it looks like ive got plenty to download over the next few months then...and years...
Kind of ironic that in a thread bout Prog music you suggest Radiohead - Ok Computer, a band that more than many questions just what it means to be 'prog'.

Oh and btw, Ive heard a number of times that The Flower Kings are one of THE prog bands out there, yet see no mention of them on your list...how come?

 

[NFU]

Cheers, it looks like ive got plenty to download over the next few months then...and years...
Kind of ironic that in a thread bout Prog music you suggest Radiohead - Ok Computer, a band that more than many questions just what it means to be 'prog'.

Oh and btw, Ive heard a number of times that The Flower Kings are one of THE prog bands out there, yet see no mention of them on your list...how come?

because the flower kings suck. i mean, if youre into dream theater, and bands that just have flashy long solos, no real cohesiveness or originality, and basically just rip off older progressive material without adding any real personal touch...then you might like the flower kings.

 

[Abhorsen]

I'd agree the Flower Queens should be avoided.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i like their music but i don't think its going anywhere new, (aka not progressive)

 

[gatedropper]

Frank Zappa should have been in the early prog list.
And ELP should have been in your Symphonic list.
Other than that, you have a great list there.

 

[NFU]

Frank Zappa should have been in the early prog list.
And ELP should have been in your Symphonic list.
Other than that, you have a great list there.

zappa is an all around genre bender...hes kind of a league of his own, but yes could often count as progressive rock...but i didnt include him.

ELP definitely belongs on a list, i just wanted a handful of examples for each sub genre...also why i didnt include Renaissance or premiata forneria marconi and whatnot. but ill go ahead and add ELP right now, one more couldnt hurt.

 

[Abhorsen]

Rush = definitely prog, especially in the mid to late 70's. Albums like 2112, Farewell to Kings, and Hemispheres are wonderful.

 

[NFU]

I would classify Rush as a progressive band certainly, however as far as their classification into a sub genre, i actually wanted to make a hard rock/progressive list, which i feel Rush would be more appropriately categorized as such. Granted these bands arent typically referred to as progressive rock 100%, but often bent the stereotypes that hard rock had at the time, and certainly had a unique and interesting twist to hard rock in general. so here it is:


Hard Rock/Heavy progressive:
Rush - Hemispheres AND 2112
Uriah Heep - Magicians Birthday
Budgie - Self Titled
Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Deep Purple - Burn
Blackwater Park - Dirt Box
Lucifer's Friend - Self Titled
Fuzzy Duck - Self Titled

 

[John Gargo]

Would you guys consider HAWKWIND to be prog-rock because I sure do! They're often considered more of a space rock band by most... I often compare them to "BOC meets Pink Floyd." One of my favorites...

 

[NFU]

Would you guys consider HAWKWIND to be prog-rock because I sure do! They're often considered more of a space rock band by most... I often compare them to "BOC meets Pink Floyd." One of my favorites...

yes hawkwind is definitely a very important band in the prog/psych/space realm, with many albums to their arsenal, and a lot of diverse material within that. I reccomend Space Ritual vol. 2 as a good starting point.