Your thoughts on Paradise Lost

"nu metal" ? Wasnt that the mid nineties ? Some term a bunch of kids made up so they would feel important ?

"PL's a real snooze fest, great sleepy time music, nothing goin on there at all"

cept alot of songs that sound like Symphony X, imagine that
 
"nu metal" ? Wasnt that the mid nineties ? Some term a bunch of kids made up so they would feel important ?

Nu-metal went into the early 2000's. I remember a bunch of my friends loving that crap with the wannabes jumping around the stage in cargo shorts playing dropped-tuned guitars and screaming crappy lyrics. I'm so happy that trend has pretty much disappeared.
 
Nu-metal went into the early 2000's. I remember a bunch of my friends loving that crap with the wannabes jumping around the stage in cargo shorts playing dropped-tuned guitars and screaming crappy lyrics. I'm so happy that trend has pretty much disappeared.

Well, deathcore and sympho-shit like Nightiwsh/Epica is pretty much analogous. Bad trends never really die.
 
If PL were recorded back in the 90s with the sound production of Damnation Game you'd all be raving about it. The production of the record is maybe more mainstream, with the extra crunch and ultra-shiny production, but they went out on a limb with a new person who was their second choice, so don't crucify them for that. Is it really impossible to love both V and PL?
 
There's still lots of Nu Metal... ung.

Too true. Just as bad are all the dime-a-dozen radio metal bands that all have the same kind of angst-ridden riffy songs about breaking up and "losing you....rrraaaaggh" *chugga chugga* and whatnot. Like Nickelback, only angrier. I'd rather listen to mainstream pop than mainstream metal/hard rock in most cases.

For that matter, mainstream power metal is only good in very limited doses as a one-off thing every once in a while (see the 101 Rules of Power Metal).

There is an infinite sea between PL and typical mainstream crap.
 
I look at in the context of the theme of the album. Consider:

Set The World On Fire: you've got Satan railing against heaven and God, and issuing a call to war for his supports. He's angry, he wants to lash out, he's *p!ssed off*. What else could it be but an in-your-face kick-you-in-the-balls heavy track? This is also why the vocals are sung the way they are; there were some complaints that Russell had given up his melodic style and gone all gruff and raspy, but when you look at his vocals on the album as a whole you'll see that they fit the emotion of the story at each point.

Then we have Serpent's Kiss: a greasy, seductive, heavy track with a groove, exactly the seduction that Satan is trying to do to Eve (and finished off later in 'Eve of Seduction' - the verse has a 'happy', bouncy style to it, and you can imagine Satan as a used car salesman trying to sell the forbidden fruit. "Come on, it's easy, trust me, it'll be fun").

Come to Paradise Lost, and you've got Satan again, but this time introspective and wondering if he's chosen the correct path. Look at what I have wrought, he thinks, is it good or bad? And if it is bad, I am resigned to my course and can't turn back. Reflected again in the song and how it is sung, with the chorus being a lament from heaven as they look down on the path that their creation has taken.

And so forth. Instead of a knee-jerk "Argghh they've gone all heavy and lost their prog/neo routes", look at the entirety of the album and you'll actually see all those elements in there *as well* as the heavy stuff. It's actually quite brilliant the way it has been put together, and if it was deliberate rather than accidental then hats off to SX for a concept album in the purest sense (as opposed to just a collection of random songs lyrically based around a theme or story).
 
If PL were recorded back in the 90s with the sound production of Damnation Game you'd all be raving about it. The production of the record is maybe more mainstream, with the extra crunch and ultra-shiny production, but they went out on a limb with a new person who was their second choice, so don't crucify them for that. Is it really impossible to love both V and PL?


Bullshit. Arguments like this are a terrible refuge. "You don't like it - there's no way you can be judging it based on its merits, so I'll make up a confounding variable"

No. PL is not as good as their other albums because a lot of the songwriting isn't as good. Revelation, Walls of Babylon, and the title track are great (though even they have hiccups compared to the prime material), the other stuff is mostly mediocre, and Serpent's Kiss / Sacrifice are utter shit. Show me one song on the Damnation Game or any SX album other than Shades of Gray that sounds as generic and forced as Sacrifice. You have to be willing to judge even your favorite bands, or else you're just a sycophant and not someone who really appreciates.

Deal with it. :cool:
 
wa ? That was a very generic application of a singular opinion irrelevant to anything important. I fail to see how the song writting is "not as good". I fail to hear any utter shit, though your post uttered shit. Wanna hear other bands utter shit just listen to most any new metal band, they utter lots of shit. The only thing I notice about the recording is that its their 7th intense album which sounded alot like themselves with guitar, bass, drums, keys and vocals ripping my ears off and causing my mind into vision

Way, way, way in the background however I swear I can hear a bunch of nobodys going.... "waah.... waah... waah"........ thank goodness its quite low in the mix
 
ahhhhhhh the mix :erk: :lol:

I look at in the context of the theme of the album. Consider:

Set The World On Fire: you've got Satan railing against heaven and God, and issuing a call to war for his supports. He's angry, he wants to lash out, he's *p!ssed off*. What else could it be but an in-your-face kick-you-in-the-balls heavy track? This is also why the vocals are sung the way they are; there were some complaints that Russell had given up his melodic style and gone all gruff and raspy, but when you look at his vocals on the album as a whole you'll see that they fit the emotion of the story at each point.

Then we have Serpent's Kiss: a greasy, seductive, heavy track with a groove, exactly the seduction that Satan is trying to do to Eve (and finished off later in 'Eve of Seduction' - the verse has a 'happy', bouncy style to it, and you can imagine Satan as a used car salesman trying to sell the forbidden fruit. "Come on, it's easy, trust me, it'll be fun").

Come to Paradise Lost, and you've got Satan again, but this time introspective and wondering if he's chosen the correct path. Look at what I have wrought, he thinks, is it good or bad? And if it is bad, I am resigned to my course and can't turn back. Reflected again in the song and how it is sung, with the chorus being a lament from heaven as they look down on the path that their creation has taken.

And so forth. Instead of a knee-jerk "Argghh they've gone all heavy and lost their prog/neo routes", look at the entirety of the album and you'll actually see all those elements in there *as well* as the heavy stuff
exactly .
 
Too true. Just as bad are all the dime-a-dozen radio metal bands that all have the same kind of angst-ridden riffy songs about breaking up and "losing you....rrraaaaggh" *chugga chugga* and whatnot. Like Nickelback, only angrier. I'd rather listen to mainstream pop than mainstream metal/hard rock in most cases.

For that matter, mainstream power metal is only good in very limited doses as a one-off thing every once in a while (see the 101 Rules of Power Metal).

There is an infinite sea between PL and typical mainstream crap.

I agree lol. There are a few mainstream metal band I do enjoy... like 2.

I'd say Five Finger Death Punch (Their song "The Bleeding" mostly) and Breaking Benjamin (The song "I Will Not Bow)

That's really all for me. Some bands I hear and I might like 1 song by them... but these bands I mentioned I like 2-5 songs by or something like that. Melodic metal really is what gets my groove on lol. :headbang::headbang:

Oh and I'm guilty of listening to mainstream pop on the radio occasionally. only when I'm like high on meds lol... cuz then I wouldn't be in my right mind haha!
 
wa ? That was a very generic application of a singular opinion irrelevant to anything important. I fail to see how the song writting is "not as good". I fail to hear any utter shit, though your post uttered shit. Wanna hear other bands utter shit just listen to most any new metal band, they utter lots of shit. The only thing I notice about the recording is that its their 7th intense album which sounded alot like themselves with guitar, bass, drums, keys and vocals ripping my ears off and causing my mind into vision

Way, way, way in the background however I swear I can hear a bunch of nobodys going.... "waah.... waah... waah"........ thank goodness its quite low in the mix

Just because most metal sucks now doesn't mean I'm going to treat any album that's pretty good (as PL is) as if it were a masterpiece. :lol: Obviously I hold SX to a higher standard because I know they're capable of writing great music.

And what's wrong with having an opinion? Why is any negative opinion automatically whining or crying? I love the band and it's not like I'm protesting the release of the CD or refusing to buy the next one or something. I just thought it wasn't great. No bitterness here, just one guy's opinion - all I'm saying is, don't make up other reasons why people think it's bad because you refuse to accept someone could dislike it on its merits alone.
 
Bullshit. Arguments like this are a terrible refuge. "You don't like it - there's no way you can be judging it based on its merits, so I'll make up a confounding variable"

No. PL is not as good as their other albums because a lot of the songwriting isn't as good. Revelation, Walls of Babylon, and the title track are great (though even they have hiccups compared to the prime material), the other stuff is mostly mediocre, and Serpent's Kiss / Sacrifice are utter shit. Show me one song on the Damnation Game or any SX album other than Shades of Gray that sounds as generic and forced as Sacrifice. You have to be willing to judge even your favorite bands, or else you're just a sycophant and not someone who really appreciates.

Deal with it. :cool:

Well, the production of an album is certainly a merit or potential liability, and I think that a large part of where the dissatisfaction with PL comes from is that it's their first album which has really, truly, definitively broken from the indie feel in the production. It does have that mainstream crunch and shine to it, and I think that scares some people and my experience tells me that it's a big deal for a lot of people. Not saying that about you in particular, but the metal genre has always been proud that it doesn't need to sound shiny, that people will listen through the gritty production for the real sound. An ultra-produced album is guilty until proven innocent of "going mainstream" and of money-grabbing. Just one example is how Dimmu Borgir got pretty slammed for DCA, which was its most symphonic, most heavily produced release, which IMO had some good writing on it.

Another thing is that there was a thread a while back with visual read-outs showing how much more compressed PL was than the earlier albums which was leading to listener fatigue. I am inclined to agree--the album is a little too chunky sounding, but it's still their best-produced album by far.

With respect to Damnation Game, Savage Curtain would have greatly benefitted from the crunchier production of PL. As it stands, it lacks oomph. Secrets is a pretty "meh" track on that album, and in general, the songs just meander more. I don't see why adding in extra noodling just for its own sake makes DG less mainstream than PL. I of course like DG, but PL just gets to the point quicker and I think it's better writing.

I can judge Symphony X. But I don't think there was some massive drop-off in songwriting quality for PL.

Btw, Sacrifice has one of my all-time favorite guitar solos from MJR.
 
I agree lol. There are a few mainstream metal band I do enjoy... like 2.

I'd say Five Finger Death Punch (Their song "The Bleeding" mostly) and Breaking Benjamin (The song "I Will Not Bow)

That's really all for me. Some bands I hear and I might like 1 song by them... but these bands I mentioned I like 2-5 songs by or something like that. Melodic metal really is what gets my groove on lol. :headbang::headbang:

Oh and I'm guilty of listening to mainstream pop on the radio occasionally. only when I'm like high on meds lol... cuz then I wouldn't be in my right mind haha!

Yeah "I will not bow" surprisingly has a good groove and decent lead work. Definitely one of the few good things I've heard on the radio in the past few years. It doesn't have its place in my music collection though.

Bullshit. Arguments like this are a terrible refuge. "You don't like it - there's no way you can be judging it based on its merits, so I'll make up a confounding variable"

No. PL is not as good as their other albums because a lot of the songwriting isn't as good. Revelation, Walls of Babylon, and the title track are great (though even they have hiccups compared to the prime material), the other stuff is mostly mediocre, and Serpent's Kiss / Sacrifice are utter shit. Show me one song on the Damnation Game or any SX album other than Shades of Gray that sounds as generic and forced as Sacrifice. You have to be willing to judge even your favorite bands, or else you're just a sycophant and not someone who really appreciates.

Deal with it. :cool:

I definitely agree with pretty much everything here except saying 2 songs are utter shit...Seriously, I'd like to know how you call really bad music if you call Sacrifice utter shit!!
 
I don't see why adding in extra noodling just for its own sake makes DG less mainstream than PL. I of course like DG, but PL just gets to the point quicker and I think it's better writing.

No sir.

The interweaving sublime melodies on tracks like "The Edge Of Forever" and "A Winter's Dream" were a special moment for SX; and it helped foster their even more progressive writing on "The Divine Wings Of Tragedy" and later, "The Odyssey"- which to me represent songwriting summits in the band's career. PL takes a step back and concentrates more on a guitar forward approach. The album The Odyssey had a pretty good balance between the two; but with PL the scales teetered slightly the wrong way. Now there are certain moments of real melodic depth on PL, like on the title track and "Revelation"; but the songwriting ambition seems to have taken a dip back on the album as a whole. Serpent's Kiss is their most disappointing song and while I do like basic template to "The Sacrifice", Russell's vocals sounded too forced and the overriding din of the production really hinders it.
 
Serpents Kiss is friggin awesome. Massive riffs, great vocal lines. I can think of many standard (for them) metal songs they have done that show a lower composition level and are less "nailed" as that song is, geeze