Your thoughts on Paradise Lost

[Prismatic Sphere]

"Serpent's Kiss" IS better than all other MTV2 metal songs these days, yes and I like parts of it(like the outro); but is like it is trying to be "Wicked" Part 2, but fails miserably. Just doesn't have the same groove or the epic vocals man.

Good metal song by today's standards. Pretty deplorable for SX.

 

[batera]

No sir.

The interweaving sublime melodies on tracks like "The Edge Of Forever" and "A Winter's Dream" were a special moment for SX; and it helped foster their even more progressive writing on "The Divine Wings Of Tragedy" and later, "The Odyssey"- which to me represent songwriting summits in the band's career. PL takes a step back and concentrates more on a guitar forward approach. The album The Odyssey had a pretty good balance between the two; but with PL the scales teetered slightly the wrong way. Now there are certain moments of real melodic depth on PL, like on the title track and "Revelation"; but the songwriting ambition seems to have taken a dip back on the album as a whole. Serpent's Kiss is their most disappointing song and while I do like basic template to "The Sacrifice", Russell's vocals sounded too forced and the overriding din of the production really hinders it.

Honestly earlier in the band's career, I felt sometimes there was a minute or two of trading solos in a given track when it didn't really serve the purpose of the song. The self-titled has by far the most of this, and it steadily decreases over time in the discography into PL, which still has extremely strong solo action, but has much less of that original jazz/prog influence. I get what you guys are saying there. Personally my opinion is that the band matured as songwriters and found ways to make every part work more for the song. For me, the part starting at 3:40 in "Seven" is one of my favorite parts of the album, and sure, it does sound a bit more generic power metal, but it's also fiercer than most of what Symphony X has done before and has an attitude I really like. It's not a "ok time to trade solos for a minute" part, but rather a section that keeps you right in the development of the song and manages to add to the intensity with an instrumental section.

But it seems people really do miss those extended blocks of guitar solo -> keyboard solo -> guitar solo -> keyboard solo. I mean, you have one right there in the first main track of PL, but I get what you guys are saying. There really is no more stuff like 3:27-4:00 like on Winter's Dream Part 2. I guess I just don't really miss that element of prog influence that much. /shrug

 

[razoredge]

"Serpent's Kiss" IS better than all other MTV2 metal songs these days, yes and I like parts of it(like the outro); but is like it is trying to be "Wicked" Part 2, but fails miserably. Just doesn't have the same groove or the epic vocals man.

Alright metal song by today's standards. Pretty deplorable for SX.

Sadly my entire post only pertained to SX and no other music., so you can delete your response it pertained to nothing, a total miss.

 

[razoredge]

Honestly earlier in the band's career, I felt sometimes there was a minute or two of trading solos in a given track when it didn't really serve the purpose of the song. The self-titled has by far the most of this, and it steadily decreases over time in the discography into PL, which still has extremely strong solo action, but has much less of that original jazz/prog influence. I get what you guys are saying there. Personally my opinion is that the band matured as songwriters and found ways to make every part work more for the song. For me, the part starting at 3:40 in "Seven" is one of my favorite parts of the album, and sure, it does sound a bit more generic power metal, but it's also fiercer than most of what Symphony X has done before and has an attitude I really like. It's not a "ok time to trade solos for a minute" part, but rather a section that keeps you right in the development of the song and manages to add to the intensity with an instrumental section.

But it seems people really do miss those extended blocks of guitar solo -> keyboard solo -> guitar solo -> keyboard solo. I mean, you have one right there in the first main track of PL, but I get what you guys are saying. There really is no more stuff like 3:27-4:00 like on Winter's Dream Part 2. I guess I just don't really miss that element of prog influence that much. /shrug

All the elements of their previous work exist in PL, if it could be honestly critized for anything it would be being various brief summaries of their previous work also known as sounding like themselves.

 

[Ryan M.]

"Serpent's Kiss" IS better than all other MTV2 metal songs these days, yes and I like parts of it(like the outro); but is like it is trying to be "Wicked" Part 2, but fails miserably. Just doesn't have the same groove or the epic vocals man.

Alright metal song by today's standards. Pretty deplorable for SX.

I disagree. Serpent's Kiss to me is a little more solid than Wicked. Yeah wicked has some really awesome parts (more than Serpent's Kiss) but I think it has some really weak parts unlike Serpent's Kiss. To me, when it comes to this kind of disagreement... it's preference... what's not preference would be that they did put more work into the solos in the older albums. Kind of obvious. But PL is still really good and it has quite a few good solos still.

 

[Prismatic Sphere]

Sadly my entire post only pertained to SX and no other music., so you can delete your response it pertained to nothing, a total miss.

It's called putting things in perspective. The only real miss in question is your ranking of "Serpent's Kiss".

Like they say, "you can lead a man to water but you can't make him think".

I can think of many standard (for them) metal songs they have done that show a lower composition level and are less "nailed" as that song is, geeze

I'd love to hear it. So what are they?

 

[Prismatic Sphere]

But PL is still really good and it has quite a few good solos still.

No one is debating this as far as I know.

 

[razoredge]

most of damnation game, Pharaoh, Out of the Ashes, Church of the Machine, Orion, off the top of my head without playing back through all of them and double checking.

Serpents Kiss kicks ass through and through, well written and applied, also far from a typical "MTV" metal song what ever the fuck that is. If thats typical of "MTV" metal bands there must be alot of good music out there I have not heard and most of the time I try to "hear" something new I rarely make it through half a song before I find it cloned, clowned or just plain stupid.

Edit: Church wrong example but it does have a few jagged moments

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

I consider PL a "should have" album, along with TiO.
DWoT, V, and Ody are all "must haves", imo.
It's sad, but PL was a step backwards for me.

 

[Prismatic Sphere]

most of damnation game, Pharaoh, Out of the Ashes, Church of the Machine, Orion, off the top of my head without playing back through all of them and double checking.

I'm surprised at your dislike for Damnation Game since it has more of the old school metal sound you purportedly like. The only songs that are remotely debatable at not blowing "Serpent's Kiss" away would be "Secrets" and "Savage Curtain"(though the solos in those songs automatically annihilate it. "Pharaoh", no way. That song is a masterpiece as is Church(and both songs all written by all members of the band). Ashes, yeah debatable as that song lightly touches on some cheese but I still like it way better because of some insane guitar work. Orion- not a chance. Too much melody to even be compared(except for maybe the chorus).

Serpents Kiss kicks ass through and through, well written and applied, also far from a typical "MTV" metal song what ever the fuck that is. If thats typical of "MTV" metal bands there must be alot of good music out there I have not heard and most of the time I try to "hear" something new I rarely make it through half a song before I find it cloned, clowned or just plain stupid.

No. You misunderstood. I only stated it that way because the video of Serpent did play on MTV2. And next to those other songs played on that channel, Serpent is a magnum opus. But again, as far as Symphony X writing goes, Serpent is pretty abysmal.

 

[razoredge]

Well I listened through some of those songs yesterday and what had stuck in my mind must have been the more generic powermetal aspects here and there within the songs. Now no where did I say I didnt like something I said "I can think of many standard (for them) metal songs they have done that show a lower composition level and are less "nailed". You were talking about songs displaying good writting ability and comparing against "their standards". So immeadiatly these generic powermetal moments came to mind. They did it well and at one time did not even stand out to me as having much powermetal because its so well deluted with the progressive elements. Still I would say those areas of the songs DO NOT imply any song writting superior to Serpents Kiss as a whole which is a well put together song, that happens to crank along in a manor I quite enjoy.

 

[Bionicman]

I liked The Serpent's Kiss, possibly because I'm biased towards songs that avoid the 'verse-chorus-similar verse-chorus-solos-chorus' structure. Serpent's 'chorus' was only used twice and lasted 8/14 seconds, and the verses were all different.

On the whole, I didn't like Paradise Lost as much as the previous albums, although I didn't strongly dislike anything other than The Walls of Babylon. The piano playing was good throughout (notably the title track, Sacrifice, and Revelation), but for the most part it didn't resonate with me.

 

[Prismatic Sphere]

I liked The Serpent's Kiss, possibly because I'm biased towards songs that avoid the 'verse-chorus-similar verse-chorus-solos-chorus' structure. Serpent's 'chorus' was only used twice and lasted 8/14 seconds, and the verses were all different.

And this would be just as cool as hell if the Serpent's Kiss had half of the chromaticism and melody as their older albums.

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

I liked The Serpent's Kiss, possibly because I'm biased towards songs that avoid the 'verse-chorus-similar verse-chorus-solos-chorus' structure.

While I'm not a huge fan of Serpent's Kiss, I agree about the song's structure. I enjoy songs that stray from the typical song structure.

I didn't strongly dislike anything other than The Walls of Babylon.

Care to explain why? I'm just curious, as most consider this track to be one of the album's highlights.

 

[Bionicman]

Care to explain why? I'm just curious, as most consider this track to be one of the album's highlights.

The instrumental intro (the first 3:24) is good, though I don't like it quite as much as the instrumental sections on other songs (particularly the V album, with Communion, Death of Balance, and the segues). But once the vocals start, the song goes downhill. This song has by far my least favorite vocals from Russell. I love how he usually manages to put anger / grit / 'venom' into his singing while still retaining melody, as well as how he puts power in his upper range without becoming grating; on this song, he goes overboard. The guitar solo is a nice attempt by Romeo to play a bit slower than usual, but it still is one of the weaker solos on the album, and the keyboard solo is weak (then again, Pinnella's solos aren't a big draw for me). The guitar riffs aren't particularly noteworthy either. But my main problem is the vocals. If you took those out, I'd think the song was okay. As it is, I feel that the song serves to reinforce unfortunate stereotypes about how metal vocalists shout/scream instead of sing.

 

[razoredge]

good grief !

 

[madeku]

a little to dark and heavy for what i generally listen to.. took a long time to "get into".. hell, damnation game i had, got rid of cos i didnt like it. then a few years later gave it a listen and rather liked it.

have to say my favorite song is Revelation, Paradise Lost (about the only SX song i can sing ), or maybe Set the World on fire.

my girlfriend (who doesn't like prog stuff much) rather likes the Sacrifice.. and oddly for some reason Egypt (even if it's not on this album)

i'd like to see them do a general album (Accolade III anyone?), rather than a concept album next. or more melodic i know alot of the lack of melodies in the album were due to Michael P being sick or something? if they do a concept album maybe something different. Count of Monte Cristo perhaps? or maybe the Vampire Chronicles.. ohhhh Russell could sing like Lestat does