Zeitgeist - The Movie!!!

[frozen_core]

I've worked way too long in the news/media industry that I really find it hard to watch news (and read it, for that matter). More and more newspapers are becoming "tabloids," for ease-of-read, and more television news stations are becoming "entertainment." Some lack substance; many are biased. It's this kind of force-fed-culture that has taken away the ability to think for oneself.

I'm not sure if I agree that higher education in this country (which I'm guessing, you mean America?) or my country (Canada) is a joke, but rather the inability of some college/university students to teach themselves. The lack of critical thinking is ridiculous these days. Many kids enter college or university believing they're going to be "taught," like they were in high school. They don't realize that a lot of the teaching aspect is gone. They're given the theories, the base knowledge, the ideas; they must take those and use the processes they were taught in high school; apply HOW you were taught to learn in high school to what you get in university, and find the right answers.

I have high respect for college instructors and university professors. They do their jobs and are criticized because their students can't think for themselves.

 

[Kenneth R.]

The professors aren't the problem with American education. They're victims like the students. Not counting of course, the worthless drivel who jerkoff instead of pursuing learning. Those students make victims of themselves.

The problem is the administration. Professors don't get paid enough. They have to teach exactly what the inept administration prescribes, on fear of losing their jobs. And what the inept administration prescribes is a cookie cutter factory for mediocrity.

Let's look at the mechanism: Take a field, like engineering. Let's get specific, electrical. Or Oil painting. Or Interior design. It doesn't matter which field. Every graduate from a particular school must take all the same courses. The end result? Everyone has the same skills and knowledge. Now here am I, the hiring company. Do I want more of the same? Do I want to have to train them and encourage them to think for themselves and innovate? No.
Now I'm the student. I can't get a job because everyone else has the same skills as me, even though I was top of the class. I don't stand out.
The only way to stand out is to teach yourself whatever you need to know, outside the course catalog. The university, no matter how much effort you put into their assignments, will not prepare you.

Let's look at the corruption: University admissions accept gifts. Isn't this a blatant conflict of interest? Now, in order to get admitted, you must not only nail the interview and the essays, you have to thank every single person you make eye contact with- and thank them with gifts. Even then, if your gifts aren't unique, you aren't going to be remembered. There is a definite problem with that kind of system.

Let's look at another aspect of corruption: Some schools have excellent sports teams. They pour millions of dollars into these athletes and their facilities, free gear, and perks. At the cost of everyone else. Buses stop running to anywhere except the stadium. You get stranded downtown after dark. You have to walk 6 miles in the snow. This isn't just me making up stories, these are 100% real situations. The athletes get all blinged out, make it big, maybe drop out junior year or get scouted as they graduate. Their courses are mostly team practices, and what "math" they receive is sports math, sports history, etc. They leave college with little more than high school education. Those pursuing more academic degrees are left with meager supplies, facilities, and benefits. They're given the leftovers.

The problem with the modern university is that unlike in the 60s, it's not a haven for the wild thinkers. It's a factory for making everybody the same, and everybody stupid. Students grow complacent, lazy, and strongly biased.

 

[frozen_core]

You have to thank people after your interview down there? Wow. I'm sure it's the same up here at some school's, maybe most. But honestly, I walked out of my college interview (didn't have one for university), and I got accepted.

Some valid points, though, Ken.

 

[Kenneth R.]

You don't have to give gifts. But good luck at an American university without it these days. 5 years ago, when I applied, it was different. This is a new fad.

 

[firewindraging]

that's awesome ..... a sound clip from carlin in the beginning

 

[Meedleyx10]

I've never heard of this gift giving until now, but I do agree with the sentiment that education is in a shitty state right now. I'm fortunate to have great teachers that aren't afraid to follow their own, more effective, agenda and the college would never have the balls to fire them. Futhermore, out of the 57 people that enrolled in the department the same semester as I did, about 10 of us will actually be able to make it once school is out for the simple fact that the rest have accepted (embraced, even) the fact that they can quite easily do just enough to make the grades, get a degree, and still know jack shit when their 4 years is up. The funny thing is that music careers (other than teaching in public school/college) aren't going to look at a degree so much as the individual's actual qualifications, so these guys will have wasted 4 years and thousands of dollars on absolutely nothing. While the administration and the lowered standards are partly to blame, the overwhelming majority of fingers need to be pointed at these ass-hats who so gleefully abuse their opportunity at higher education.

 

[razoredge]

Ok I dont know jack about college but one thing I do know is at work is a from of cull system within the school systems for non compliant students, regardless their grades or manors. If they are strong willed and unwilling to believe the statue quo is always correct administrators & faculty will wait for the opportunity to trip them up. If a situation arises and the problem is between children of the shakers and rollers who are likely members of the "clique" and children of us lower rent types decisions will always fall against the lower scale. This right here is the beginning of discouragement and it will carry on throughout the life of more radical thinking people or those willing to stand up and say "bullshit". I dont think our government wants to discourage education but they do want the non compliant, non "yes man" people weeded out.

Our government AND CORPORATIONS are also hell bent on accumulating records on people and apply them to our SS#. The stuff thats been going on with job applications, background checks and urine tests is another form of weeding out the non compliant, and keeping us out of the main event. (I say us, I mean people like myself not any of you, Im sure your all normal, arrow straight :yes persons:.... lol

These things I just mentioned are the minor league, its a whole nother ball game if you want to run with the Ivy crowd and you'd better be in total agreement with "the system" if you want to get far way up there. naturally it also better serves their interests so few will ever think twice about the system.... its a great thing..... "works for me"

The Movie : The collapes of the buildings - I found it interesting - multipul people at ground zero saying there was ground level explosions, sky scraper engineers saying it didnt make sence that those steel columns sheered at the bottom and the buildings were engineered to withstand crashs. fireman saying they didnt understand the molten steel. I have my share of comercial construction experience and you would not believe the amount of steel rebar that goes into the concrete of these types of buildings and the amount of plastic explosives stratigically placed AT GROUND LEVEL, NOT A CHUNK OF ALUMINUM WAY UP IN THE SKY.... to make those buildings collapes perfectly like they did. then theres the curiosity never mentioned....... why was the population of the buildings far lower than normal that particular day ? Then the stuff about the other two crash sites ???? I mean I dont know, is this bullshit? Ive seen photos of firey plane crashes before.... these were different. I mean I cant believe this would be a conspiracy....... or can I .. ?

The best part I felt was the deal with the banks, the third part. Theres no doubt we have minipulated economies and who it primarily benefits.

As for the religious part, the new testiment was'nt written until well over 100 years AD so wheres all the proof behind that primitive self indulged sci'fi novel ? and the old testiment..... forget it.... that thing reads like a primitive version of Stephen King. Hell fire and brimstones, pillars of salt, incest, concubines, work hard and "all the world will be yours".... thereby giving you permission to march a bloody trail across the desert and claim anything as your promised land because you "worked hard, "served god" and god said all the world was yours"...... talk about self serving bullshit, hell Id love to have concubines, multiple wives, be able to turn people into pillars of salt or command astriods to fall upon their heads, part the seas and lay claim to the finest piece of real estate around..... fuck yea..... sign me up....... to quote the comedian from the movie "cause god loves me" .... yes naturally Im going straight to hell and deservedly so for finding elements of this documentary curious and most of "the bible" amusing. I dont question if the dude Christ happened though, Im sure something went on back then, but virgin birth from a woman that had a husband? Damn she must have been alot of fun.... performing miracles and the rest of the national enquirer stories I wont fall for. I only beleive in some of the morals of the bible but I refuse to live my life worshiping anything or giving all credit for what is good about me or the earth to some supposed no show boss. You want my respect you show up and get the job done and I will consider you my comrade....... holy crap, the sky just parted and the thunder is clapping... oh no! oh no! theres a meteor coming straight for my head...... SPLAT.........

 

[Kenneth R.]

Dude, airplanes do not cause buildings to crash. We've established this back in 2002. The towers (god, I'm sick of talking about that bullshit) were rated to withstand a 747. However, they were not outfitted to withstand tons of burning jet fuel flowing down the elevator shafts. The building is a shell and core style construction. You take away the core and now what holds up the floors? Nothing but the outer shell. They collapse in and downward. The momentum creates a domino effect. It's simplistic and there's not much room for conspiracy. The only conspiracy bullshit I buy about the whole fiasco is that the government knew of an attack threat and did not act.

About the Bible. Actually, the New Testament was written over the course of years of 35~ AD to 100 AD by different authors. It was not written all at once 74 years after Christ died. As for the Old Testament, I find it interesting that people who believe in conspiracy theories, and others who believe in aliens, would discredit another collection of sources of written history by multiple authors. These people witnessed something. You believe multiple people witnessed something in NYC on 9.11.2001. It's irrational of you to credit one and not the other. You can believe what you want, but hey. If you'll note, the various authors of the Old Testament all predicted the series of events culminating in the coming of John the Baptist and Jesus. Never mind miracles, their predictions, years before future events, were all shown accurate in ways that Nostradamus must certainly have been jealous of. If you need visual, presence as proof that God exists, for him to part the clouds, step down as a huge glowing figure and tap you on the head, then why believe in conspiracy?

 

[symphonyXjapan]

The problem with higher education is that college programs have to show the parents and students who spend their money towards a degree that it will allow them to work job x or go into x field. People have forgotten the main focus of education, developing our minds and gaining new knowledge. All it is about now is the university making as much money as possible with ridiculously high tuition costs and NCAA sports. Most people go to college to get a specific degree that will allow them to get a specific job and make a specific amount of money.

@razoredge

Don't you remember? You have to have "faith" that god exists...

 

[Meedleyx10]

An equal, or greater (in my opinion), blame needs to be placed on the students who choose to let their education turn out that way.

 

[razoredge]

Sounds good Ken, I have been trying to figure out where all that jet fuel went, probably also caused the explosions

hey, I hope god exists and is up for... or should I say down to earth enough, for one damn good bitch fest come my judgement day, I have more than a few bones to pick and will stand my ground like any worthy limey till the wrath of fire and brimstone sends me straight to the depths of hell to suffer for being born in these times for all eternity. but frankly I'd just rather "sleep"

 

[proulxski]

If you need visual, presence as proof that God exists, for him to part the clouds, step down as a huge glowing figure and tap you on the head, then why believe in conspiracy?

Haha, I must say ken I found this bit so close to the truth, that is made me laugh! As far as the 9/11 topic ken, you're right they where built to take planes, and the such, and what was explained can also be true! But other things happened during 9/11 than just the two trade centers collapsing.

I'm neither here nore there on this matter, since one I wasn't there to witness it, and two I have as much proof backing anything up on this topic as anyone else does! Which is pretty much what the media showed us. Which is basically what the documentary is about, they don't drill into your mind 'conspiracy'! Instead they tell you to look beyond what t.v, magazines, media in general are showing us, and think for ourselves.

 

[razoredge]

An equal, or greater (in my opinion), blame needs to be placed on the students who choose to let their education turn out that way.

I did it in high school, and knew I'd be a waste of money if I pursued college. I was and am a hands on kind of person and never wanted to dally with the little things that didnt interest me. A long term mistake, yes, but I say it takes all kinds to make a world and that in itself does not deminish ones value or contribution too society. What should count is who you are when you hit the workforce. However the system does not work that way, more so today than 40 years ago or even 100 years ago. Some of the best innovators of the industrial revolution didnt have as much as a 12 year ed. They just knew what needed to be done, figured it out and got to work. Many of the higher ed types are little more than educated fools, and lack abilities simpletons like myself have, but they have the credentials and know how to refer to their books. Positives and negitives in both.

 

[Meedleyx10]

to clarify, when I said "education", I was referring specifically to college. College isn't for everyone ( I almost did take the college route myself), but the people who do choose to go to college should take full advantage of the opportunity. I know plenty of successful people who didn't go to school. My best friend dropped out of college after her first semester (last fall). Since then, she's gotten a good job at a Real Estate Agency, works part time selling jewelry, got married, closed on a house last month, and she and her husband have a higher household income than my family did before my dad retired from 22 years in the Air Force and starting earning what he deserved. On the flipside, I go to school with a lot of people who are blatantly wasting thousands of dollars a year and 4 years of their lives only to get a piece of paper that does not, in any way, reflect their work ethic/education. It's a shame that a piece of paper means as much if not more than actual qualification to so many employers, but those who work for that piece of paper and actually do it the right way (i.e. actually furthering their education) get the best of both worlds.

 

[proulxski]

I agree 110%

 

[ramses]

I agree. After viewing said movie, I find it interesting. All governments in human history, and society, do a lot of things they're not going to bother to tell the public. Basically, if you're not at, or around the top of the heap...you're fucked.

 

[symphonyXjapan]

to clarify, when I said "education", I was referring specifically to college. College isn't for everyone ( I almost did take the college route myself), but the people who do choose to go to college should take full advantage of the opportunity. I know plenty of successful people who didn't go to school. My best friend dropped out of college after her first semester (last fall). Since then, she's gotten a good job at a Real Estate Agency, works part time selling jewelry, got married, closed on a house last month, and she and her husband have a higher household income than my family did before my dad retired from 22 years in the Air Force and starting earning what he deserved. On the flipside, I go to school with a lot of people who are blatantly wasting thousands of dollars a year and 4 years of their lives only to get a piece of paper that does not, in any way, reflect their work ethic/education. It's a shame that a piece of paper means as much if not more than actual qualification to so many employers, but those who work for that piece of paper and actually do it the right way (i.e. actually furthering their education) get the best of both worlds.

I also agree with this. I am in my last semester of college now and the only thing that has kept me going is the fact that I really enjoy what I am doing and learning. I mostly go for the reason of gaining more knowledge in the things I take interest in. My other reason for going to college is because once done with it, I want to have a job that I actually "enjoy" doing everyday. I am not looking to get filthy rich, I just don't want to be one of those people who hate their life only to "thank god it's friday!" and dreading when monday comes again. I don't want to be society's whore. And if I don't end up being able to find a job through the education I have pursued, I know for sure that I won't have any regrets. The most important thing I am getting from it is the knowledge it has given me.

Oh, and ken? How in bloody hell does the polarization of politics have anything to do with me arguing/disagreeing with you? I have a "polarized opinion" of you huh? Now you are just making up strange terms that are no more credible or "backed up" as the documentaries you try so hard to hate! There is nothing to be compared between the idea that politics is split between one extreme or the other, with no middle ground, and me arguing with you about some random ass shit?! I guess if you define the two extreme sides as "agreeing with you" or "not agreeing with you" it could maybe work....

 

[Pelao]

great movie, i think the last chapter about the microchips its like going too deep, but all the rest of the movie is pretty much all we know and nobody wanna see

 

[Meedleyx10]

Have you actually researched any of this material?

 

[Kenneth R.]

Oh, and ken? How in bloody hell does the polarization of politics have anything to do with me arguing/disagreeing with you? I have a "polarized opinion" of you huh? Now you are just making up strange terms that are no more credible or "backed up" as the documentaries you try so hard to hate! There is nothing to be compared between the idea that politics is split between one extreme or the other, with no middle ground, and me arguing with you about some random ass shit?! I guess if you define the two extreme sides as "agreeing with you" or "not agreeing with you" it could maybe work....

You hate every word I say. You're committed to try your very best to piss me off or make me look bad, cause for some reason I make you froth at the mouth. This isn't an extremist, polarized position to you?

keep ranting. I have very little hope you will ever get it.