Zeitgeist - The Movie!!!

[symphonyXjapan]

That sounds like something you say to yourself everytime you make one of your narrowminded, self pretentious posts on this forum. Sadly, this is probably not the only forum you go to making a complete ass of yourself...

BTW, nice finding that typo, you really showed me up there!

 

[proulxski]

yep yep, It is thought provoking and the meaning behind it I find is that we should think for ourselves! It shares another side of the story! But I mean, where some people come from wathcning this video, and finding something interesting out of it makes us retarded!

carry-on!

 

[Kenneth R.]

Nice debating with you.

 

[frozen_core]

I don't see what the big deal is. I watched it, and, yes, it was thought-provoking, since it touched on three very very thought provoking subjects. Do I believe it all? I can't say that I do or do not, the reason being is that I'm not an expert on religion, 9/11, or the American economy, which most people aren't. Those who believe every word of these types of documentaries are just as close-minded as people who brush them off as pure propaganda. Both groups of people don't know the whole truth about anything, so the type A person can't say "yes, every word of this is true" while at the same time the type B person can't say "none of this is true." Obviously, there are facts missing from this, and on that, I agree with Ken and Yngvai, but, at the same time, I'm not sure either is an expert on religion, 9/11, or the American economy (I'm not picking on you guys, Ken and Yngvai, your comments just stuck out.) However, if someone were to say "watch this and learn the truth from it" would be just as ridiculous should they have no facts to back up the claims. What it does, though, is get people thinking; not necessarily about these subjects, but about anything. There's nothing wrong with seeing what people have to say on any given subject, as long as you take what you're given and/or told and go out to make the right conclusion. People do need to think and research more these days rather than have "knowledge" handed to them in the form of DVD's.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I won't call myself an expert, but I do have first-hand experience with religion as a Christian with close friends of most other major religions, and atheism. I agree 100% with your last comment. Great post.

 

[frozen_core]

I won't call myself an expert, but I do have first-hand experience with religion as a Christian with close friends of most other major religions, and atheism. I agree 100% with your last comment. Great post.

Personally, I don't think anyone can really be an "expert" on religion, but that's just my opinion. With you being a Christian, to me, that's as close as it gets, because I believe you have to be religious to actually understand it. An atheist can read/study religions, but without being immersed in it, I don't think one can actually understand the personal meaning with it. I'm not religious in any sense, so I do value your opinion on it.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I said I wouldn't call myself an expert. I do think nonbelievers can 'get it' and still chose not to believe in it. I don't think anyone is going to make any relevatatory breakthroughs from watching something like this 'documentary'.

 

[razoredge]

Good posts SXJ. Typical degrading posts by Kenny boy, I cant believe moderaters let you get away with that all the time man. Or that you have an internal desire to do it in the first place. Oh well

I havent seen it yet, but just going from some of the attempted conversation, I will say that everywhere that stinkin bible has gone, left a blood bath, in the name of self righousness by those who carry it. I will also say no versions of the bible have ever backed up any of the hidious verses that lie within. The only grounded thing in them are the basic morals that we are supposed to be born with or have the ability to conclude on our own as we mature and rationalize. I've yet to hear one profound statement quoted from the bible that is not a "no shit Sherlock".

The "Church" has been the single most repressive facility in the history of mankind.... in close competition with wealth... many times working hand in hand.... imagine the hypocracy of that

conspiracy theorys ? Youve got to be kidding me.... history has proven to us that there are NEVER any conspiracys....... yarite!

I like .... whats his name, for doing what needs to be done. I only saw the one about the auto industry. Hes a bit of an ass clown, ignoring other issues but he nailed the bottom line dead nuts....... lol "bottom line", I just made a funny.........

going to check link now... lol

carry on

 

[Kenneth R.]

1. Degrading though I may be, it only appears degrading when the target takes critical assessment very personally. My posts do not aim to insult, the focus, while somewhat condescending (how can I help it when the defendants are so blatantly ignorant?), no the focus is to clarify.

2. You've obviously only ever seen the negative effects of people who abused and twisted the message of Christ for their own gain. Case in point, the crusades. I could come up with similar atrocities for any religion you name. Those acts weren't committed by people who "got" what Jesus was talking about, but by misunderstanding or manipulative self-interest groups. In the same vein, Osama bin Laden does not represent the ideal Muslim devotee.

3. If everything in the bible is "no shit sherlock" (as I think it SHOULD be) then how do you explain the countless people who still, supposedly knowing everything it could offer ("no shit"), commit many immoral acts and crimes? If they already know this stuff, then are they just stupid? Or perhaps they could learn from it or any other religious text after all? The quick answer is it might be "no shit" to you, but to a lot of people, it would be. If they actually paid attention.

4. The "Church" as in the Roman Catholic Church, based in Rome, headed by the Pope, who is currently Benedict, I agree, has been a corrupted and repressive organization. This church has billions of dollars, and much more in relics and artifacts, not to mention money poured into architecture. Couldn't that money be better used to save poor and starving people? Imagine the hypocrisy of a Church that doesn't follow the teachings it tries to spread? It is my personal belief that the Roman Catholic Church, as an organization, is not a Christian organization.

5. Conspiracy theories, while sometimes proven true, are much more often false, and without significant evidence, assuming proof is absolutely foolish.

6. Michael Moore (aka whatshisname) is a political jackass, whose "documentaries" are, along with Al Gore, Ann Coulter, and other political masturbators, no more academic than they are platforms for dissemminating bullshit for respective interest groups and parties. I make no distinction between Republican and Democratic bullshitters. There is an ample quantity of both, and both are equally worthless.

If that's the kind of source you go to for "documentaries", then I can only assume you get your news from the tabloids and your education from Television.

Doesn't ANYONE think anymore?

 

[razoredge]

No Ken all my thinking is totally independent, Moores thing about Detriot only backed up or I should say "shook it in the face" something I already concluded on my own over a decade before I saw it. I should point out that my concerns of the sort... go far beyond Detriot and I infact rarely thought about "The Motor City" I think about a continent of people or actually a country. Being older, working poor, blue collar, I actually dispise this "global" bullshit and am a nationalist. But thats neither here nor there anymore, its a walking talking dead ideal.
.....................

Reaction to the movie : I fucking love it! I give it somewhere around a 75% "no shit Sherlock". Its got its share of false statements and ignores other alternative reasons for the wars, ignores the plane hyjackings of the 70's, ect, ect. But sorry, I have always believed in the puppetmasters theory as well as what I have always called "the distraction". Dont care about any smart ass that wants to delete my evaluation and rationalization abilities or cares to attack my "horrible high school only" education as some kind of proof that Im a retard that lacks the ability of independent thought. In my retarded mind the laughs on them. I've unfortunately had to deal with "institutions" on a smaller scale and I could clearly see my life and my future meant nothing in pursuit of of their higher self glorified purpose. Nothing will change my mind. I have few years left and really dont give a shit anymore, whats done is done. So as Ive said before... to qoute John Lennon "Im just sitting here watching the world go round and round". Its not my world anymore, it belongs to you younger people, do with it what you please, buy and sell into what tickles your fancy. 15 years ago I really cared and it was the source of my unfinished "epic" Childrens Nightmare. Not anymore.......... I happily hand it over to you young idealistics with all the answers and surrender to my naturally born retarded state.

Have a great life, its all you can hope for.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I hope you aren't mistaking my comments on education with the institution of collegiate universities. Those are rampant with idiocy.

It seems you've already made up your mind on this and other issues and are no longer open to consider possibilities. To that end, discussion with you about the topic is fruitless for either of us. As for loving a "documentary" while admitting that it has a lot of holes in it, I can only shake my head.

 

[razoredge]

Then I would assume you also shake your head at everything else human related that has holes in it........
as I have always said.... see beyond the distraction
What I said about my education is because I always know what comes next....... lots of insults, spelling correction, accusations of ignorance, ect. ect. been down that road way to many times.
this is a highly political, religious and socially charged topic and I wont pursue it. It leaves me open to these insults from you, Meedley and who know who else with all the answers will chime in at my expence, been there done that and only got pissed off and left with no answers to questions I asked.
Like I said, I honestly dont care anymore, this is your problem now, this is the legacy we leave to you, do with it what you choose. I pursue it and beside being treated like a retard, the topic will end up being closed......... none of which has ever been fun for me.

Enjoy! Seriously

 

[Kenneth R.]

Well now, I already stated that there's no perfect answer to anything. But you can't believe something so riddled with holes that there's no credible evidence to support it.

I'm less concerned about you than I am about people like proulxski and SXJ who actually enjoyed this stuff. Moreso the former, if you watch something like this and think it's cold fact, you have serious issues.

 

[frozen_core]

I said I wouldn't call myself an expert. I do think nonbelievers can 'get it' and still chose not to believe in it. I don't think anyone is going to make any relevatatory breakthroughs from watching something like this 'documentary'.

Oh, I know you weren't calling yourself an expert, I wasn't trying to call you on that. When I was saying that no one can be an "expert," what I mean by "expert" is someone that knows everything about whatever subject (my opinion)...so, in my own eyes, no one can be a real "expert" on anything, but if someone teaches themself and looks at both sides, to me, that's great...which is why I value your opinion, and that of many others on this forum

 

[Kenneth R.]

Definitely. There's no end or point when someone knows all there is to know about anything. I'm very much a classicalist, a renaissance man. It's very frowned upon by society these days, but then society doesn't have much to say for itself

 

[proulxski]

ken, when did I ever say its cold fact? I know this video has its holes, and I said from the start its not perfect. My opening comment was "I know how some of the forum memebers feel about Michael Moore..." Hinting at most of the egotistical peoples on this forum! I am simply saying, that this independant film maker, brought up an already touched issue, and shed some light on it! This documentary blows Michael Moore away, which is easy since alot of his films are not credible worth ass, but with the money he has, you can make anyone believe. Kinda like what the gouvernement does in general! I simply let this documentary stick out from the rest because its not a hollywood blockbuster, its not a million dollar budget! And that alone makes it more credible, and worth watching than half the crap out there!

I don't much appreciate you making assumptions about me, or my opinions on this matter! Since if you can find anywhere that I said "this movie is so true, and credible, I am such a believer, consipracy, conspiracy woot!" If it makes a lick of a differince to any of you, I laughed at the religion part of the documentary. Since there is no facts that proves anything he says. But I mean, perhaps if I wasn't so busy being a retard you would listen to me!

 

[Meedleyx10]

- for when a serious written-out response would just be a waste of time

 

[symphonyXjapan]

ken, when did I ever say its cold fact? I know this video has its holes, and I said from the start its not perfect. My opening comment was "I know how some of the forum memebers feel about Michael Moore..." Hinting at most of the egotistical peoples on this forum! I am simply saying, that this independant film maker, brought up an already touched issue, and shed some light on it! This documentary blows Michael Moore away, which is easy since alot of his films are not credible worth ass, but with the money he has, you can make anyone believe. Kinda like what the gouvernement does in general! I simply let this documentary stick out from the rest because its not a hollywood blockbuster, its not a million dollar budget! And that alone makes it more credible, and worth watching than half the crap out there!

I don't much appreciate you making assumptions about me, or my opinions on this matter! Since if you can find anywhere that I said "this movie is so true, and credible, I am such a believer, consipracy, conspiracy woot!" If it makes a lick of a differince to any of you, I laughed at the religion part of the documentary. Since there is no facts that proves anything he says. But I mean, perhaps if I wasn't so busy being a retard you would listen to me!

Don't worry man, he did the same thing to me. I didn't state taking any of the documentary as 100% fact either. It just doesn't matter what we say, he doesn't read and process anything we say that he does not want to hear.....(hell, the same could probably be said of the first part of the movie and the fact that he is a Christian?)

On the subject of the movie, I finally watched it the other day. I only watched the religion and 9/11 parts though. The 9/11 conspiracy thing was interesting; however, I don't know much about all of those kinds of things personally and keep it only as a thought in my mind. On the other hand, the religion part was about things I have already come to know through my own studies and only served as more proof to me. All religion started from paganism. Even though all cultures had their own gods the only differences between them were merely their names. The common ground was that they used these gods to symbolize the many marvels found throughout the nature of Earth, and the cosmos. The only part I will admit to not knowing too much on is with astrology; however, if they are lying on the part of astrology it would probably be the easiest thing to prove wrong to them anyway. Heh, I thought the part where they brought up the dinosaurs was pretty hilarious, it brought back the memory of when I was only a 10 year old Catholic boy and pondered the same though myself! People seem to forget that nothing is 100% fact. If you find a source to prove your fact their is no way of proving that it is truly fact. You cannot rely on anything but yourself in determing things for yourself. But what makes these documentaries helpful is more of the fact that they open people's minds to think about things in other ways. They help people realize that what they are forced to believe is not necessarily true, and neither are these documentaries that help them come to realize this either.

@razoredge
It's ok man, he can sit in his hypocritical bubble and call us ignorant all he wants...it really means nothing when he ignores everything we argue only to find something as stupid as a typo to try and defeat us with grammar. He is only seeing what he wants to see that will allow him to try and win an argument. As long as he plays retard and does not acknowledge what we say seriously he can never lose. The situation you gave of you never getting a higher education than high school brings up another thing I have already stated in this thread before. The government does not want most of society to get a higher education and question things, that would mean them losing money and power. But, even without a higher education there are still at least some, such as yourself, that try and figure things out and think for themselves.

@ken
I think the only thing I have ever agreed with you on is politics. The whole democrat/republican thing is nothing but a pile of shit. If a candidate does not conform to being far on the left or right they have no chance of even getting on the ballot as the people in our country allow these two parties to control who we have to choose from in an election. On the bright side, I think there are at least some people finally starting to wake up and realize this flaw.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Too bad they aren't realizing other issues. You're being hypocritical by agreeing with me on polarized politics, and then polarizing your opinion about me. I hope you realize that I have no grudge against anybody and I only say what I think, bluntly and with no sugar on top. If you said something great, I would be the first to give you credit. I am open to criticism... but a lot of people apparently aren't.
Figuring things out for yourselves is what I stand for. Higher education in this country is a joke. We have to educate ourselves. As for "winning" an argument, that has to be the most juvenile thing I've ever seen.

Hypocrisy is such a word to be thrown around like a hot potato. Don't give any further credit to media whose sole purpose is to polarize, slander, and spread conspiracy theories. This kind of stuff is precisely what undermines intelligent society.

 

[noble savage]

(...)
Figuring things out for yourselves is what I stand for. Higher education in this country is a joke. We have to educate ourselves. As for "winning" an argument, that has to be the most juvenile thing I've ever seen.

Hypocrisy is such a word to be thrown around like a hot potato. Don't give any further credit to media whose sole purpose is to polarize, slander, and spread conspiracy theories. This kind of stuff is precisely what undermines intelligent society.

I absolutely agree with you. It's frightening how little people really think for themselves. Intelligence in our culture has been completely over shadowed by things like Paris Hilton and American Idol. I'm not a conspiracy nut by any means but, sometime ago I just shut myself off from all forms of the media. If you ready/hear a story on CNN it will be covered a different way on another station such as FOX news. It only takes a little bit of thought to realize everything you see on the news is tweaked by the person(s) involved to make you sympathetic to their views, not the truth.