2008 Presidential Candidates

The FAFSA only pays a small portion.

Well, I am sure this is a pretty case-by-case thing, but my friend is extremely poor, lives in a shitty apartment complex with 4 rooms down the street from me, and is the only one in his immediate family to plan to make it all the way through college. He is a Biology student. He is going to school for free (they send him refund checks all the time). I believe firmly that he deserves the money.
 
I believe FAFSA does not give out any money. It is a recommendation for universities as to how much money they should give to you, and how much you should be expected to pay. A university with enough money will cover their share, and the rest is up to the family. Part of that can be cut down with zero interest grants. I'm on a full scholarship, but even if I wasn't, I'm guessing I'd only have to pay two or three thousand out of the $45,000 tuition. FAFSA is pretty fair. If you really need money, it is a good assessment of that. Many people think that they are paying a ton of money for school, but they should be mad at their parents for driving an SUV or living in the suburbs.

Going back to a previous point... Even the most libertarian of people will tell you that if someone steals from you, the government should right the wrong and get it back, or punish those who stole. 150 years ago, a whole lot of white people were stealing a lot of labor from black people. This wrong was never righted, and that explains a lot of the current economic situation. All of the money that was gained through the exploitation of slaves is still in the hands of rich white people. Rather than reparations, the estate tax should be doubled or tripled to redistribute that wealth, and the starting point should be $1 mil instead of $2 mil.

Also, all black people should be allowed to go to college tuition free. This is a better system than cash reparations, which many would spend on material goods that wouldn't better their standing. College degrees would help.

And regarding taxes, I'm convinced just about anyone can find a way to get by on $100,000+. So I really have no problem on total taxation over 50% on incomes over $250,000.

Luxury cars are a crime against humanity.
 
I believe FAFSA does not give out any money. It is a recommendation for universities as to how much money they should give to you, and how much you should be expected to pay. A university with enough money will cover their share, and the rest is up to the family. Part of that can be cut down with zero interest grants. I'm on a full scholarship, but even if I wasn't, I'm guessing I'd only have to pay two or three thousand out of the $45,000 tuition. FAFSA is pretty fair. If you really need money, it is a good assessment of that. Many people think that they are paying a ton of money for school, but they should be mad at their parents for driving an SUV or living in the suburbs.

Going back to a previous point... Even the most libertarian of people will tell you that if someone steals from you, the government should right the wrong and get it back, or punish those who stole. 150 years ago, a whole lot of white people were stealing a lot of labor from black people. This wrong was never righted, and that explains a lot of the current economic situation. All of the money that was gained through the exploitation of slaves is still in the hands of rich white people. Rather than reparations, the estate tax should be doubled or tripled to redistribute that wealth, and the starting point should be $1 mil instead of $2 mil.

Also, all black people should be allowed to go to college tuition free. This is a better system than cash reparations, which many would spend on material goods that wouldn't better their standing. College degrees would help.

And regarding taxes, I'm convinced just about anyone can find a way to get by on $100,000+. So I really have no problem on total taxation over 50% on incomes over $250,000.

Luxury cars are a crime against humanity.

Doubling the estate tax is stupid. You're probably just saying this because your inheritance is going to be really small (I'm getting no inheritance from my father, btw).

You are clearly biased here (as am I)

Taxes are already over 50% if you include shit for social security and medicare and state and local taxes.

I'm pretty sure if someone came along and took 50% of money that you earned, you would be pretty pissed.
 
Yes I do want some people taxed at 70%. Living in the USA has been a great blessing for many people. They have had great opportunities, and reaped great rewards. For a variety of reasons, not everyone is that lucky, and the people who have been fortunate should not be upset about sharing with the unlucky.

The American Dream is a myth. How rich you end up only requires a rather base level of effort if you're born into the right family. Honestly, completing college and then getting a job isn't all that indicative of hard work for the most part. Born into the wrong situation, and you have a 1% chance to succeed even with max effort. Most people don't want to be on welfare. Shit happens. You get sick without insurance. Your mom or dad dies. You're stuck in a bad educational system. The plant closes and goes overseas. People are almost always not responsible for bad situations. The government should allot more resources to help them.
 
I don't understand some people. Giving to charity and shit is fine, but I shouldn't be forced to give money to charity, which is essentially what I would be doing if:
1) I was taxed at 70%
2) That money was given to poor people

I would basically be working for the poor rather than myself. What's the fucking incentive to actually want to advance and work hard and succeed? Why is society all of a sudden turning altruistic?

Oh wait, there is none under a system like that.

Fucking ridiculous. Altruism is complete bullshit
 
How far do you want to take that then? No public goods? No parks? No public schools? No endowments for the arts? No research grants for scientists?

In a sense, all of these things are based on altruism. The government doesn't have to do these things. We could rely on rich people to do them...

Somehow I expect it wouldn't happen.
 
This is pretty much my view on the taxing and money issue:

http://www.savethehumans.com/culturebashing/editorial/laissez_faire/page3.shtml

I'm allowed to talk about money if I'm not rich, right? Isn't that the rule of thumb?

That's the rule of thumb we selfless, altruistic, pure-hearted saints are supposed to follow, isn't it? That the rich should do - and sacrifice - as they're told, but we poor and middle class can talk about, request, demand, loot, or steal all the money all we want? And from whom are we stealing? Why, from the rich, of course.

If this is indeed the rule of thumb, let me take this opportunity to raise another finger: my middle one.

Let's set the record straight from the start. Corporate welfare should be flushed down the toilet. Welfare has no more place in the corporate world than it does in the lazy, alcoholic, 10-children-per-household, can't-keep-a-job-as-a-fucking-janitor world.

But now that we've gotten that out of the way, let's talk about the so-called tax breaks for the rich.

If anyone on the Left (which includes Republicans, these days) thinks that cutting a rich guy's taxes is somehow equivalent to giving him a pot of fucking gold at the end of the rainbow, they really need to start reconsidering their position on genetically altered foods. A tomato with a few celery genes would make a far better brain than the one they have presently.

Let's do some arithmetic. (Americans may have to skip a few paragraphs, based on the latest standardized test scores.) Let's imagine you made a cool million last year. Of course, to imagine that, you'd also have to imagine being smart, ambitious, confident, dedicated, and good at what you do. Or at least lucky enough to get on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. (And then smart enough to win it.)

So, let's imagine. You've made your million, and there's Uncle Sam (or Uncle Rodriguez, or whatever uncle happens to be running your country) sticking his goddamn pistol in your face. He's politely asking for half of what you've earned. That money which is yours. You bitch and moan, but you hand it over. It's either that or bending over for a little love from some 300 pound car thief in prison, right?

Great. You do it, then some unprincipled Republican comes along, who by chance happens to be right about a single issue, and says: "Let's reduce the tax rate for everyone in the highest income bracket from 50% to 25%."

You say, naturally:

"Aw, yeah. That's what I'm talking about, mother fucker. I fuckin' rule. I am God. I kick ass. I am awesome."

Unfortunately for you, you have Al Gore, George W. Bush, John F. Kennedy, and Jesus H. Christ on your fucking back saying "Not so fast, mother fucker."

"NO TAX BREAKS FOR THE RICH!"

Thou shalt do for your country? No tax breaks for the rich? Are these morons really that stupid?

No, the problem is that everyone else is. This situation basically amounts to a case of the emperor's new clothes injected with LSD and crack. For our non-American friends (I said friends, not you Chinese fucks aiming nuclear warheads at my head), let me elucidate.

The story of the emperor's new clothes can be summarized thusly. (Thusly is such a pompous word, I can't resist it.) An emperor decides to walk around town naked, showing off, as he believes, his "new clothes". The townspeople, gutless bastards that they are, simply pretend that he is in fact wearing clothes. That is, until one little girl innocently points out that he's naked. (I wonder if the girl grows up to be a rapist, as the feminists would say? Pornography with actors dressed like emperors causes rape, doesn't it?)

Anyway, the average Joe doesn't usually speak up when someone objects to tax cuts for the rich. Is this just a case of the emperor's new clothes? Not quite. Remember, this metaphor has been injected with LSD and crack. (How can a metaphor be injected with drugs? I don't know, ask Bob Dylan.)

The truth is that the rest of us (i.e., the "royal us") (i.e., you) don't mind playing the game. People don't mind pretending that a tax cut for the rich is some kind of government handout. After all, why speak up? If we don't speak up, that's more cash in our pockets, right? If some liberal politician says you deserve the rich guy's money, who are you to speak up?

ALTRUISTIC BASTARDS BE DAMNED!

That rich man or woman - who's probably making a lot of other people rich, too - earned the money. It's theirs. And fuck you if you're going to tell them they can't have it.

Let's look at you. (Not the millionaire you of above, but the real you.) What if a bunch of poor bastards got together and called you "the rich"? And that you don't deserve as much of your money because you have "enough"?

You do have enough, don't you?

First of all, let's be honest. There's no such thing as enough money. Second of all, whether you have "enough" or not is up to nobody but you. If you want to give up half of your salary away to some welfare addict, that's your prerogative. (Personally, I'd spend at least some of mine on something completely unnecessary, like a car that goes zero to sixty in under five seconds and burns so much goddamn fuel it makes Al Gore lose a big green load in his pants faster than you can say "timber".)

Just because a bunch of us got together and said the rich can "afford" to do without more money, that doesn't make it right. It's not any more right than a bunch of people less productive than you saying you don't have the right to your money. 10,000 Frenchmen saying it doesn't make it right. (Speaking statistically, I bet that the more Frenchmen there are saying it, the less likely it is to be right.)

All of us non-rich need to stand up for the rights of the rich. And we need to start doing it now.

No, not just because we might get lucky and get rich ourselves. But because every man and every woman has the right to their property.

If you don't believe everyone has an unalienable right to his property, at least admit the following. Admit that it's ok with you if the rest of us decide what to do with your property. And if you lose your cigarette money, your beer money, your bible money, or your house: tough shit. You asked for it.

"It must be remembered, that the rich are people as well as the poor; that they have rights as well as others; that they have as clear and as sacred a right to their large property as others have to theirs which is smaller; that oppression to them is as possible and as wicked as to others."
- John Adams*

Ok, so Mr. Adams said it a bit better, and in fewer words. And with fewer swear words. (Though I bet "rich" was still considered vulgar back then.) But the point remains true.

The right to property is the right property.

If you earn it, it's yours.

Case closed.
 
Doubling the estate tax is stupid. You're probably just saying this because your inheritance is going to be really small (I'm getting no inheritance from my father, btw).

You are clearly biased here (as am I)

Taxes are already over 50% if you include shit for social security and medicare and state and local taxes.

I'm pretty sure if someone came along and took 50% of money that you earned, you would be pretty pissed.
Just to comment on the edits....

The estate tax is basically the luck tax. Whether you have to pay for it or not has nothing to do with you, only who your parents are. The current setup only requires tax on inheritances over $2 mil. Taking, say, half that would still leave you with a boatload of cash. Taking 75% of that would still leave quite a bit of money. It doesn't matter what my inheritance is. It's surely not over 2 million dollars, and it probably won't be a cent, since my mom needs to live off of the money that was left after my dad died. Even if there was money coming my way, I wouldn't object to it being taxed. It would just be based on luck. You're unlucky to be taxed, but lucky that you're at least getting some money, where many people are not.

I would only be upset about losing half my money to taxes if I needed more than half my money. I live pretty frugally, and I'd probably be content to make $30,000 a year. I wouldn't even know what to do with $100,000 or more a year.
 
Not an inspiring group of candidates, to be sure, though I suppose I'll be voting Republican (or, as I like to think of it, the "No cunts or my pals" ticket).
 
You can get education when you are poor. It's called the FAFSA, or Free Application for Federal Student Aid. I am sure you've heard of it.

FASFA is flawed in many repsects; for one, unless you are claimed as independent on tax forms, you will guaranteed to not get anything (and remember, just because you are claimed a s a dependent does not mean you actually are).

Not only that, there are very few people I've met that have actually deserved the FASFA money they have received. Most poeple wasted it on booze, some drugs, and others just live day to day off of it (which is fine since one of them gets 5k every damn semester). I make about 8k a year, and couldn't even sign up for the program initially because of my fucked birth certificate. Funding typically goes to the wrong families, and people who actually need help are left in the fucking dust.

The system (at least California's portion of it, assuming it is handled by the state (but supported by the fed) needs to be rebuilt.



And people want the rich to be taxed because they get so many god damn tax cuts as it is; and if you really want to lower your taxes even further (for the "rich" at least), all you have to do is donate to a charity (doing this also gives you a tax break). Furthermore, there are a lot of people who run companies that attained there wealth through the workers expenses. It's not about government altruism, it's about unregulated companies that can and will take advantage of legal loopholes to make more money for the ceo's and shareholders. If a government is for the people, then it should protect the people from those businesses who use unsavory practices to run every single bit of competition out of the picture.

A successful company =/= a "moral" company.
 
These are the tax brackets in Australia for 2007-2008:

$1 – $6,000
Nil

$6,001 – $30,000
15c for each $1 over $6,000

$30,001 – $75,000
$3,600 plus 30c for each $1 over $30,000

$75,001 – $150,000
$17,100 plus 40c for each $1 over $75,000

$150,001 and over
$47,100 plus 45c for each $1 over $150,000

This is all in Australian dollars which is worth around 90% of the American dollar. So, to give you some rough examples, if I earn A$50,000 per year, I would pay around $10,000 in tax. If I earn A$100,000 per year, I would pay $27,000 tax. If I earn A$500,000, I would pay $205,000 in tax. I don't think any of those amounts are unreasonable. I don't think that tax rates are a disincentive. We have some other taxes as well including a 10% tax on all goods and services except basic foods and some essential services.

We have a better education system, a far more comprehensive public health system, lower poverty, less than 5% unemployment etc etc.

This leads me to two things. Firstly, you need to use your money better. Too much money spent on policing the world, which you've done a pretty piss poor job of. For example, $84 BILLION in assistance to Israel since 1950. That's over $14,000 per Israeli. If you factor in interest, it amounts to a burden of over $130 billion on the US taxpayers. And in turn, Israel uses the money to do all sorts of stupid shit which in turn destabilises the whole area and is indirectly responsible for problems such as Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

Secondly, the US has a problem with the real top eschelon money earners. Like most Western countries, but perhaps to an even greater extent, it actually becomes easier to evade tax the more you earn. The top 1% of the population holds over $38 of the total wealth. (These are 2001 figures so I'm pretty sure they would be even worse now). Redistribute a quarter of this money and you go a long way to improving the welfare system.