2016 Presidential Election

[SentinelSlain]

Is it the wall and the Muslim ban that have got you rattled? Or protectionism and nationalism in general?

 

[Dak]

You blame Libya "all on her," despite also acknowledging that its decline has been the result of developing relations since the first President Bush - a process that she only came to play a more direct role in since only 2009 or so. Her actual track record is far from terrible;

Yes, the negative US orientation towards Libya precedes Hillary. But she supported the actual attacks, partially by saying we had to pay back the international community for their help in Iraq. One bad decision justifies another! Can you maybe list some of her achievements then, if it's far from terrible?

but it doesn't take a genius to say "this won't end well."

I agree. So what is her excuse?

As far as Clinton's abilities on the world stage go, even a track record as muddled and controversial as hers is better than Trump's. I know who his "best people" are, and they're not my best people. And yes, I would be embarrassed to count myself the member of a country who elects that kind of personality to the presidential office.

Yeah I've heard Christie's name floated for something which is equally parts gagworthy as it is amusing. But I wouldn't be embarrassed. Whichever candidate winds up in office, their misdeeds lie partially on the heads of the respective voters, not myself. If I were to be embarrassed by all the stupid things other people do I'd probably need therapy . There's also a lack of context: If you examine politicians across the globe, most if not all are "embarrassing".

If Trump got into office and did a complete one-eighty, publicly apologizing for and condemning all the things he said during his campaign... then I would be flabbergasted, but I would feel reassured. But I know that he won't do these things. Clinton has apologized multiple times and she hasn't even evinced a personality half as reprehensible as Trump's. But honestly, it isn't the personality that worries me: it's the intellect. That's not to say Trump isn't intelligent, but it takes a different kind of intellect to run a business than it does to run a country.

I'm curious as to what Trump has said that he needs to apologize for. He's certainly said some incorrect things, which he could offer corrections for, but that's different. Again, the immense weight you (and most Hillary apologists) ascribe to some limited interpersonal misconduct in comparison with the flippancy towards ruining the lives of millions and/or placing billions at risk in a variety of ways is interesting. I believe that the dead, dying, and starving of Libya etc would love to live the lives of the women that Trump has allegedly groped if they could have a choice. I know if I had to pick between being a Libyan starting in 2010 vs one of those women what I would pick (Hint: get me as far from the Middle East as possible).

 

[Einherjar86]

Yes, the negative US orientation towards Libya precedes Hillary. But she supported the actual attacks, partially by saying we had to pay back the international community for their help in Iraq. One bad decision justifies another! Can you maybe list some of her achievements then, if it's far from terrible?

Fostering communications and a platform for future relations for one thing, the Diplomacy and Development Review. I know that plenty of conservatives see this as a waste of resources, but that's because they usually can't beyond the false imperative of immediate and quantifiable results.

Aside from that, she's intervened into plenty of diplomatic issues with moderate degrees of success - Russia (in the past), Turkey, et al. The fiasco in Libya has seriously overshadowed several initiatives prior to it.

I agree. So what is her excuse?

That she got handed a shit salad, was asked to pick the shit out of it, and ended up dropping a bunch of it. Is some of it on her? Yes - but not all of it, sorry. The shit-stained line is long...

Yeah I've heard Christie's name floated for something which is equally parts gagworthy as it is amusing. But I wouldn't be embarrassed. Whichever candidate winds up in office, their misdeeds lie partially on the heads of the respective voters, not myself. If I were to be embarrassed by all the stupid things other people do I'd probably need therapy . There's also a lack of context: If you examine politicians across the globe, most if not all are "embarrassing".

I'm not saying you should be embarrassed, and I didn't intend this to be such a sticking point. I don't walk around all day lamenting the state of politics. The presidency has been partially a Hollywood game show since Reagan, which is one reason why Trump is so good at it and Clinton (Hillary, that is) is so bad. It also happened to be a game that Obama knew how to play exceedingly well, and I'm infinitely happy for that.

I'm embarrassed though - and I mean no offense - that so many people still say things like this:

I'm curious as to what Trump has said that he needs to apologize for.

I can't identify with comments like this, and I think they're often more for shock effect than anything else - maybe not when you say them, but when most people do they just want to get a rise.

Again, the immense weight you (and most Hillary apologists) ascribe to some limited interpersonal misconduct in comparison with the flippancy towards ruining the lives of millions and/or placing billions at risk in a variety of ways is interesting. I believe that the dead, dying, and starving of Libya etc would love to live the lives of the women that Trump has allegedly groped if they could have a choice. I know if I had to pick between being a Libyan starting in 2010 vs one of those women what I would pick (Hint: get me as far from the Middle East as possible).

Saying that the people of Libya would prefer to be one of the women that Trump groped is not a statement I have any interest in dealing with. I think we can agree that the situation in Libya is regrettable without resorting to cheap rhetoric like that. Making it into an ultimatum of being bombed or being sexually assaulted also elides an important distinction: I highly, highly doubt that Clinton wanted to intimidate, harm, and wreak destruction upon the people of Libya, whereas I'm almost positive that Trump loves intimidating and harming people.

So, did Clinton fuck up? Yeah, sure - but again, I see no problem with accepting that fuck-up over Trump any day.

 

[Dak]

Fostering communications and a platform for future relations for one thing, the Diplomacy and Development Review. I know that plenty of conservatives see this as a waste of resources, but that's because they usually can't beyond the false imperative of immediate and quantifiable results.

Aside from that, she's intervened into plenty of diplomatic issues with moderate degrees of success - Russia (in the past), Turkey, et al. The fiasco in Libya has seriously overshadowed several initiatives prior to it.

That she got handed a shit salad, was asked to pick the shit out of it, and ended up dropping a bunch of it. Is some of it on her? Yes - but not all of it, sorry. The shit-stained line is long...

Well we both agree the shitstained line is long. But future relations with who? Relations with the rest of the world have deteriorated for a while now, with allies and adversaries alike. Quite a bit of that is on the Bush administration, but Clinton did zero to turn that ship around.

I can't identify with comments like this, and I think they're often more for shock effect than anything else - maybe not when you say them, but when most people do they just want to get a rise.

That's a curious belief (that people are trying to shock if they don't agree). Almost as curious as, for instance, the belief that "Trump called Mexicans rapists". I assume that's an example of something he supposedly should apologize for. Maybe he needs to apologize for calling Clinton a "nasty woman"?

I highly, highly doubt that Clinton wanted to intimidate, harm, and wreak destruction upon the people of Libya whereas I'm almost positive that Trump loves intimidating and harming people.

We'll have to disagree on the nuances of that analysis I guess, I won't go further on it since it is ultimately all conjecture. Unfortunately there's no experimental option where we get to observe what would happen in both cases. We just get the one we get and everything else is a counterfactual.

 

[Einherjar86]

Personally, I think Trump should apologize for The Apprentice above all else. Apologize for subjecting us to that fucking atrocity of television.

I'm calling it, because you're not voting, and I already did.

 

[Dak]

Personally, I think Trump should apologize for The Apprentice above all else. Apologize for subjecting us to that fucking atrocity of television.

I'm calling it, because you're not voting, and I already did.

He should apologize for the faux gold on everything too if we want to talk about his non-election related mistakes. Reality television in general needs to burn in a special version of hell.

I'd go vote to cancel yours out but then I couldn't complain.

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

LGBT group endorses Trump, calls Clinton 'detrimental' for gay community

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Can hardly be surprised that Log Cabin Republicans in Miami (aka Cubans) are endorsing Trump.

Regarding Clinton and Libya, may she would deserve the slightest benefit of the doubt if she didn't blame the Libyan people as the reason why Libya is now dysfunctional.

 

[Dak]

Regarding Clinton and Libya, may she would deserve the slightest benefit of the doubt if she didn't blame the Libyan people as the reason why Libya is now dysfunctional.

 

[CiG]

Hillary Clinton may be the single best example of why you should never let your talentless girlfriend play a role in your garage band.

It also happened to be a game that Obama knew how to play exceedingly well, and I'm infinitely happy for that.

Yeah, he's been an amazing president.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Don't see what makes her less "talented" than Bill tbh

 

[CiG]

Fair enough.

 

[CiG]

This is a great example of the kind of elitist attitude that fueled Trump to win.

Trump is a buffoon and Hillary is going to win handily. /end

I mean in terms of rhetoric, Trump is much more like Hitler than Sanders is. Preaching hatred, discrimination, etc.

Trump is the guy who keeps Mein Kampf on his bedside table but that's okay because he's not liberal, right? He's the most similar to Hitler than any candidate that has ever run for president in the US.

Trump won't do any of those things, because he has no chance against Bernie or Hillary. Fortunately for the rest of us, morons like you are the minority.

Trump would not beat Hillary. He would not get any part of the centrist independent vote, and a lot of non retarded republicans would probably not vote at all. I think he's got a better shot at Bernie tbh.

I still don't think that Trump has a real chance at anything, especially if Clinton gets the nomination. He could maybe beat Sanders though because he's still an unknown

You're just delusional, that's the problem. I honestly really wish you could try out living in the dystopian shithole you fantasize about and see how much you like it after all. The fact that you don't understand why Trump is a fucking clown is a perfect example of how separated you are from the real world.

He hasn't destroyed anyone in a debate yet, and has actually gotten booed fairly often. His tactic of just yelling over people and insulting them doesn't really work.

Clinton is the only real candidate in the race. And she's gonna win by a wide margin, especially if she is smart about her pick for VP.

It's either gonna be Sanders or Clinton. GOP does not have a real candidate.

 

[The Ozzman]

Lol where are you @Matt

 

[CiG]

Crying into his caviar somewhere.

 

[Dak]

But I was delusional!

Edit: Forgot I called that shit so long ago. Now even the pundits agree with me that Bernie was a better choice than Hillary. I was only like 9 months ahead of the curve. Cause I don't live in the real world and stuff.

 

[Baroque]

You could have flipped a coin and had almost the same odds of being right. Calm down mister fortune teller. Why not come on down to vegas then?

 

[CiG]

I thought Trump was going to lose to Hillary so I can't say shit. I wasn't as smug and sure as some fuckers though.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

All Hillary had to do was make a concession of sorts and allow Sanders in as VP. But noooooooo, she just had to choose Kaine because he did her a favor, so she now owed him a favor.

 

[CiG]

More like she had to be non-white.