5150 vs 5150 II & 2 Channel Dual Rectifier vs 3 Channel

[dreamofasound]

It's an old thread but I got a question for you guys.

I have an ampeg svt-vr for sale cause I don't use it, I only use my vintage one, and I could exchange it for a 3 channels dual rectifier (2005), it comes with EL34 in it and also comes with the original tubes, footswitch included, the seller and I were asking the same price for our amp so it's fair.

Do you thing a 3 channel model is worth it?
Should I wait to get my hand on a 2 channel version?
The thing is if I sell my svt-vr, I'll invest that money in reconing a cab and changing tubes of my vintage svt...stuff like that, reconing my speakers will be kindda expansive so I won't buy a new amp with that money.
A mesa or any punk/metal kind of amp isn't something I'd buy for myself soon, I'm building up my studio first but a mesa would be a good addition for those bands that come in with crappy amps.
I also think it could attrack more bands.
But if the 3 channel isn't good...I won't get one just for the hell of it you know.

Please let me know what you think.

thanks

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

I think it's worth it IMO. But I have not heard that many rectos so yeah...

 

[dreamofasound]

Allright thanks, nice slogan btw lol

anybody else?

 

[Manicompression]

Yeah dude, Actually the last 2nd guitar player I had in my band played through the older 2 channel, and I myself have owned the 3 channel since 03, So Ive pretty significant time spent playing through both. Im not way up on the reasons the differences exist however I can share my impressions. The big area of difference it seems to me is that on the newer 3 channel the 3rd channel is actually alot harder to dial in. On the 2 channel the second channel is just slightly less extreme and the presence sweep just sounds a bit more usefull all around, on the 3 channel most guys keep the presence down most of the way becuase its basically a functioning "suck" knob after 12oclock in the "modern" setting which is basically the best sounding mode on the thrid channel to my ears. The 2 channel heads "Modern" setting just has a more usefull sweep control. Both amps have a "Vintage" setting that is extremely usefull for more rock, alternitive, and some metal styles, both amps have more than enough gain on tap to do whatever you want. The Clean channel on both is more than enough to get the job done, not quite a fender Vibrolux, but way cleaner and more usable to me than what most high gain amps offer. Personally I like the flexability of having 3 channels so I can set up a clean, a crunch, and an all out ass reaming and have it all at my feet. Also the quality control on Mesa's amps seems to be through the roof, Ive never had a technical problem with mine, not have any of my friends.
I would not recommend either though if your not a tweaker, as the amount of different shit these can do is pretty wild, and its probably fair to say its nearly as easy to get a bad sound as a good one with either.
I say go for it. It takes work sometimes (like any good relationship) but I love mine to death.

 

[dreamofasound]

Yeah dude, Actually the last 2nd guitar player I had in my band played through the older 2 channel, and I myself have owned the 3 channel since 03, So Ive pretty significant time spent playing through both. Im not way up on the reasons the differences exist however I can share my impressions. The big area of difference it seems to me is that on the newer 3 channel the 3rd channel is actually alot harder to dial in. On the 2 channel the second channel is just slightly less extreme and the presence sweep just sounds a bit more usefull all around, on the 3 channel most guys keep the presence down most of the way becuase its basically a functioning "suck" knob after 12oclock in the "modern" setting which is basically the best sounding mode on the thrid channel to my ears. The 2 channel heads "Modern" setting just has a more usefull sweep control. Both amps have a "Vintage" setting that is extremely usefull for more rock, alternitive, and some metal styles, both amps have more than enough gain on tap to do whatever you want. The Clean channel on both is more than enough to get the job done, not quite a fender Vibrolux, but way cleaner and more usable to me than what most high gain amps offer. Personally I like the flexability of having 3 channels so I can set up a clean, a crunch, and an all out ass reaming and have it all at my feet. Also the quality control on Mesa's amps seems to be through the roof, Ive never had a technical problem with mine, not have any of my friends.
I would not recommend either though if your not a tweaker, as the amount of different shit these can do is pretty wild, and its probably fair to say its nearly as easy to get a bad sound as a good one with either.
I say go for it. It takes work sometimes (like any good relationship) but I love mine to death.

That was really useful, thank you.
I think I will do it, basically I wanted to know if the 3 channel version was worth the name dual rectifier or if it isn't even close to a 2 channel.

If I get it, what cab should I get?
Do mesa cabs with v30s in it sound good... how do they sound with other amps?

 

[Manicompression]

Yeah the matching oversized Rec Mesa cabs are the prefered cabinet of this forum, and the new guy who plays rythem in my band has one, so I can vouch for its awesome-ness on a personal level. And if pros on this forum arent enough to convince you, maybe Adam Jones from TOOL or basically 75% of touring bands today should say something of the quality of the Mesa Cabs. I see people who use the Mesa cabs with damn near every kind of head. That said, Ive totally droped the ball on the cab front, Im playing mine through a Fender Supersonic 4x12 (with v30's) thats actually a little undersized compared to your run of the mill 4x12, however it still sounds worlds better than the old school Randall cab with celestion 75s I was playing it through for a couple of years, and frankly I think it sounds pretty damn good, I have not yet put it under the mic....... So I think to some extent V30s are the key. Some guys that play the Recs still use the tried and true Marshall 1960 cab with V30s, and what I gather is that the oversized Mesa Cab just gets rid of some of the high end fizz that most dudes end up eq'ing out later anyways. I would recommend buying a good overdrive pedal to tighten up the more over the top gain sounds on the head, I just tried everything they had at Guitar Center and came out with a 50 dollar boss Sd-1 as my favorite, more-so than an Ibanez tube screamer. Id be interested in hearing the head with the EL34s in it though, to see how badly it needs the boost, All the Recs Ive ever played have had the stock 6l6s for the record. Rock it.

 

[Carcass29]

I'm not 100% with my rectifier, I've used some older ones (mines from 99 I think) that sounded better. + mine has a red light not blue

There's actually a music store near me that has one...the old two channel recto with the blue light. The tolex has seen better days...a little ripped and worn...it's going for $1100

 

[dreamofasound]

Looks like a good price if it's in properly working conditions.
I'll be getting the one I talked about in exchange of my svt-vr which I was asking 1600$ minimum for (I would have try to get 1750$)
It's a 3 channel, come with el34 tubes in with as well as the original ones, footswitch and a cover for the head.
Any other thought about that deal?

 

[Metaltastic]

Hmm, actually, if you think your SVT-VR is worth AT LEAST $1600, then I think you're kinda getting ripped off - a used 3-channel Dual Rec. is usually around $1300, $1400 max...and yeah, Mesa cabs rule, I'm about to get a Traditional/Stilleto cab (rather than the Rectifier/Oversized cab) cuz while I really like the sound of the OS cab, to me it's very identifiable and not the sound I want (a bit too scooped in the mids and "thundery" in the lows). For reference, though, one of my favorite tones of all time is Opeth's "Ghost Reveries," so that's the sound I want - if you're into a tone like, say, Nevermore's "This Godless Endeavor," Behemoth's "The Apostasy," Killswitch stuff, etc., than the Recto/OS cab can't be beat.

 

[dreamofasound]

Hmm, actually, if you think your SVT-VR is worth AT LEAST $1600, then I think you're kinda getting ripped off - a used 3-channel Dual Rec. is usually around $1300, $1400 max...and yeah, Mesa cabs rule, I'm about to get a Traditional/Stilleto cab (rather than the Rectifier/Oversized cab) cuz while I really like the sound of the OS cab, to me it's very identifiable and not the sound I want (a bit too scooped in the mids and "thundery" in the lows). For reference, though, one of my favorite tones of all time is Opeth's "Ghost Reveries," so that's the sound I want - if you're into a tone like, say, Nevermore's "This Godless Endeavor," Behemoth's "The Apostasy," Killswitch stuff, etc., than the Recto/OS cab can't be beat.

I did look on the bay for prices on used mesa, effectively you can get one for that kind of price but a lot of them are also more expansive, here in montreal canada dual rectifier with mesa cab list between 2400$ and 3000$, mesa os cab list between 850$ and 1250$, I couldn't find another head for sale but from those prices it seems like 1600$ isn't too much, probably could be a little bit less but it doesn't seem overkill neither.

thanks for the info about the cab, I will have a close look at them if I end up getting the head.

 

[Metaltastic]

Well either cab (Stiletto or Rectifier) are great with any head, so I'd recommend 'em regardless of your amp choice

 

[dreamofasound]

I'm suposed to get it this sunday, I only played with one in a store once in my life so I don't really know how it works, people seem to say it's a bit complicated so...
Anybody got some tips for me to test this thing?
What should I verify, is there a switch somewhere that I should check, appart from testing gain, eq, volume...what else is there to look at?

thanks

 

[dreamofasound]

I allready said this in another thread but I GOT MY DUAL REC TODAY!!!! hehe
I trade it for an amp I didn't use, it was a svt-vr and I got a vintage svt so the vr was collecting dust (I got that one for a project that didn't work so...) now I got a mesa hehe.

Just a quick question, everything seem to work and sound good, but I'd like to make sure everthing's cool, the 2 tube rectifier don't glow, well not much, is it normal?
The head has JJs E34L power tubes in it, the bias select is on el34 mode, ok, and the red light to the right of the switch is lighten up, does that red light means it's on el34 mode or does it mean it is not properly biased?
Also, should I let the el34 in it or switch back to original tubes?


Thanks guys.

 

[gabriel g.]

I hate the engl powerball!!!But last year I recorded a band and they were playing engl Thunder amps with marshall vintage V30 cabs.
They sounded amazing. The lead player had a new thunder and the rythm player had an very old self pimped. The amps were both very direct and very true. I think the thunder amps sound better then the fireballs...

 

[SoundSpiral]

I really had to post after I saw you guys trashing Engl.

Engl has been used in the studio by such bands as:
Rammstein, Zyklon, Dimmu Borgir, Megadeth and Scar Symmetry just to name a few.

I have been playing with differend Engl amps for about four years and recording them for at least six. I have made numerous a/b tests to compare Engls against other amps including Mesa nomad 50, Mesa Stiletto, Peavey 5150, Krank Revolution 1, Koch Powertone II, Orange Rockerverb, Laboga Mr.Hector... The list goes on...

I must say that Engl Thunder 50, Powerball and Fireball have all made their way to the final mix nine times out of ten.

It all comes down to what the mix needs. Engl amps are really clear and tight. Just what modern fast Heavy Metal often needs the guitars to sound like. 5150 combined to an Engl fireball sounds awesome.

...But we all have our own opinion about guitar sound. Just wanted to express my point of view.
And no, I'm not working for Engl.

 

[wishtheend]

Just a quick question, everything seem to work and sound good, but I'd like to make sure everthing's cool, the 2 tube rectifier don't glow, well not much, is it normal?
The head has JJs E34L power tubes in it, the bias select is on el34 mode, ok, and the red light to the right of the switch is lighten up, does that red light means it's on el34 mode or does it mean it is not properly biased?
Also, should I let the el34 in it or switch back to original tubes?

If the amp is set to use the silicone diodes on the back, you won't see the rectifiers light up much. I like the diode setting, just seems overall tighter - but the recitifer tubes still are having an impact on your sound. Just switch between the two settings to see what you like.

As for the tubes, the light is just normal. It will be that way no matter what. The cool thing with the Mesa is it really doesn't need to be biased. As long as the tubes in use is what the amp is set to, you should be fine. I personally have only used 6L6's but have been interested to play around with some EL34s.

 

[Darkening]

If the amp is set to use the silicone diodes on the back, you won't see the rectifiers light up much. I like the diode setting, just seems overall tighter - but the recitifer tubes still are having an impact on your sound. Just switch between the two settings to see what you like.

No, I don't think so.

Set your amp to BOLD (silicon diode) and remove both 5U4G rectifier tubes. Then turn your amp on... then take it off standby... watch what happens.

Still works.

MESA will tell you this themselves. You don't need any recitifier tubes in the amp if you only use BOLD mode. It bypasses that stage.

You can also remove 2 of the power tubes for 50-watt mode. Take out the outer two tubes and there you go. Nothing to switch.

Still works.

 

[wishtheend]

Ya know, I originally thought the same but when I upgraded by tubes I went ahead and bought the JJ GZ34s. I have always used the diode setting, but there was an actual difference in the tone when these were replaced. Just to be sure I wasn't loosing my mind, I put the stock 5U4s back in. I'm not sure how or why, but in my 2ch it had an impact.

 

[dreamofasound]

That's pretty cool, strange though...
thanks for answering guys

 

[Metaltastic]

No, I don't think so.

Set your amp to BOLD (silicon diode) and remove both 5U4G rectifier tubes. Then turn your amp on... then take it off standby... watch what happens.

Still works.

MESA will tell you this themselves. You don't need any recitifier tubes in the amp if you only use BOLD mode. It bypasses that stage.

You can also remove 2 of the power tubes for 50-watt mode. Take out the outer two tubes and there you go. Nothing to switch.

Still works.

Well there's a separate switch for "Silicon Diode" and "Tube Rectifier," along with "Bold" or "Spongy." The latter might still be related to the rectifier section, but then again, it might not, since there's a dedicated switch for that purpose (I've seen the Bold/Spongy switch described as a Variac switch, which makes me think of that gizmo EVH used with his old Marshalls to change the voltage coming into the amp or something)

Oh, and at least on Peaveys, if you're taking out the two outer power tubes, you have to double the output impedance (meaning, use the 16 ohm output when plugging into an 8 ohm cab).