9/11 aka Sept.11 ... five years later

[Taliesin]

Well I guess it's so present in our heads because we usually turn away from everything horrible we see, like dead children in Iraq or Africa and tell us they're very far away and we cant do anything anyway, so it's even more shocking when we cant turn away, when it's happening in a country "closer" to us than Africa.
Still, if we go by what plintus said, that it's the nightmarish images that make 9/11 the significant catastrophe it is, I say that 500k dying babies could make you lose sleep as well, the tragedy is, no one was there to take the pictures, no one puts them on national tv, so we "didnt see and didnt know".
If the towers hadnt collapsed, would we still talk about 9/11 the way we do today?

 

[Kovenant84]

To be quite honest, no, we probably wouldn't.

~kov.

 

[hyena]

it's not just about the deaths. it's about attack on what was considered safe ground. i am not shocked by learning about drug dealing in the dodgy parts of town, eventhough i am sad and outraged at the fact that there is people profiting from other people's addiction. on the other hand, i would be shocked to see a heroin dealer on my doorstep, because i feel my neighborhood to be safe.

 

[plintus]

Well I guess it's so present in our heads because we usually turn away from everything horrible we see, like dead children in Iraq or Africa and tell us they're very far away and we cant do anything anyway, so it's even more shocking when we cant turn away, when it's happening in a country "closer" to us than Africa.
Still, if we go by what plintus said, that it's the nightmarish images that make 9/11 the significant catastrophe it is, I say that 500k dying babies could make you lose sleep as well, the tragedy is, no one was there to take the pictures, no one puts them on national tv, so we "didnt see and didnt know".
If the towers hadnt collapsed, would we still talk about 9/11 the way we do today?

These images ARE on TV, maybe not most mainstream channel, trying to raise $$$ for humanitarian help and whatever, people in the streets from non-profit organizations will sign you up for helping kids in Africa. You know how they put it? Honestly? "10 dollars a month will save a hundred babies from starving to death". It's fucking numbers to them. Numbers to me, as well.

it's not just about the deaths. it's about attack on what was considered safe ground. i am not shocked by learning about drug dealing in the dodgy parts of town, eventhough i am sad and outraged at the fact that there is people profiting from other people's addiction. on the other hand, i would be shocked to see a heroin dealer on my doorstep, because i feel my neighborhood to be safe.

Yeah, that too (safe ground). And yes - it feels much stronger if it's closer to home. I'm kinda in the mix, cuz I wasn't here when it all happened, but TV surely delivered it's share of the shock.

 

[KitKat]

It isn't "my ground", but it's about 600km from here... so I felt close in a kind of way, and really not safe !

 

[marduk1507]

Well I guess it's so present in our heads because we usually turn away from everything horrible we see, like dead children in Iraq or Africa and tell us they're very far away and we cant do anything anyway, so it's even more shocking when we cant turn away, when it's happening in a country "closer" to us than Africa.
Still, if we go by what plintus said, that it's the nightmarish images that make 9/11 the significant catastrophe it is, I say that 500k dying babies could make you lose sleep as well, the tragedy is, no one was there to take the pictures, no one puts them on national tv, so we "didnt see and didnt know".
If the towers hadnt collapsed, would we still talk about 9/11 the way we do today?

This is just so typical of Europe, mentioning other deaths and victims when anything US related is on the table. Where the fuck have you been when those things in Africa and Iraq were happening? Have you ever made a single thread about any humanitarian crisis, any dictatorship, any goddamn dictator in the world? No, of course not, because its not related to the US and you cant go "oh, 9/11 my ass" all over the place. This is only about remembering, preserving something in our memory, so that we wont forget, its not about some death toll comparisons, for fucks sake.

 

[Kovenant84]

This is just so typical of Europe, mentioning other deaths and victims when anything US related is on the table. Where the fuck have you been when those things in Africa and Iraq were happening? Have you ever made a single thread about any humanitarian crisis, any dictatorship, any goddamn dictator in the world? No, of course not, because its not related to the US and you cant go "oh, 9/11 my ass" all over the place. This is only about remembering, preserving something in our memory, so that we wont forget, its not about some death toll comparisons, for fucks sake.

Mar, he wasn't trying to belittle the events of 9/11 in comparrison to other tragedies. In fact, he stated that even in Europe, things are viewed the same way. He was just observing that people tend to look at 9/11 much more because of the WTC, and wasn't quite sure why that was. It did come across a bit harsh, but I don't believe he meant it that way.

~kov.

 

[King Chaos]

It's a tragedy of the past, that will always be in my mind. Very disturbing day of bloodshed indeed. Dunno if I've linked this before...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-5946593973848835726&q=9/11+loose+change

It's a tragedy indeed. I'm not saying that documentary is speaking some greater truth, because I generally know a consipiracy is a convenient lie... but it seems more true than the fear based stories the media gave us.

 

[Taliesin]

Even Kov agreed that I had a point and he lives over there so dont stereotype me.
I never said I was the solution or part of the solution, I dont pretend to be changing the world for the better, Im just wondering why 3000 dead people and a demolished WTC are worth talking about for half a decade when said 500k dead children are not.
Im not trying to void anyone's suffering, Im not trying to be anti-american here, Im just trying to understand.

I think it's a very valid question actually, since 9/11 has been part of the justification for the war on Iraq, I think it's important that we ask ourselves what 9/11 really was and what we feel and should feel about it.

 

[Lina]

9/11 is also reserved for the WTC and NY it seems. Does anyone remember the 800 deaths at the Pentagon?

Actually, it was 184 people: 71 on the plane, 125 in the Pentagon. But yeah, you're right, it isn't mentioned as often.

 

[Kovenant84]

I've watched Loose Change. It has some valid points, but it lost most of its credibility with me in the last five minutes.

I think also that the reason that the WTC has been such a focal point has more depth. First, 500k dead children is a tragedy, but would have been viewed as much more so had it not been over such a long period of time and such a large area. I know that sounds strange, but I'm convinced that people are more afraid of instantaneous horrific death than a slow, protracted, possibly easily preventable one. Had those 500k children died in one incident, we'd most definitely still be talking about it today. Second, and most importantly to myself and many NY'ers, was the fact that the deaths at the WTC didn't encompass the lives of just those in the planes and those who worked in the building, but also countless police, firefighters, and just people off the street who rushed in to the towers to save the lives of total strangers, and wound up being killed in the process. Those are the people I find most people today are praying for or remembering. Lastly, I forget who said it (I think Hyena - I can't check, because too many windows open and boss gets suspicious), but someone above mentioned that NY was considered safe before then - that is very true. We may not have been well-liked, but we never thought we'd have an attack of such violent magnitude happen in the middle of our city. I think had we gone to war first, and then been attacked, the response would have been much less because then people might say 'well, we were at war with them, it makes sense'. To the vast majority of NYers, these attacks had no basis, and were purely for senseless destruction.

~kov.

 

[marduk1507]

Even Kov agreed that I had a point and he lives over there so dont stereotype me.
I never said I was the solution or part of the solution, I dont pretend to be changing the world for the better, Im just wondering why 3000 dead people and a demolished WTC are worth talking about for half a decade when said 500k dead children are not.
Im not trying to void anyone's suffering, Im not trying to be anti-american here, Im just trying to understand.

I think it's a very valid question actually, since 9/11 has been part of the justification for the war on Iraq, I think it's important that we ask ourselves what 9/11 really was and what we feel and should feel about it.

Yeah, of course you had a point, you rarely dont have one. But it wasnt only that, you wouldve chosen different tone. I dont know why its mentioned more than other attacks or catastrophies, Id pretty much go with Kovs explanation, that its only a matter of symbols. And if we take into account films, WTC and the flight that crashed near Pittsburg were treated equally, so it wasnt only about the Twins. There will always be people whod ask why Holocaust was more important than the deaths in Tibet under Mao etc. I would actually be able to answer that question, but this case, of course, is different. Palahniuk would say that its just a matter of press coverage, the whole story is so fucking unbelievable that it just drags attention of the masses, whereas a death of a child in Africa, while equally meaningless, is less "interesting". I could go deeper into this, but time presses me now, so maybe later.

 

[plintus]

(...I can't check, because too many windows open and boss gets suspicious)

FUCK YOUR BOSS

 

[Dark_Silence]

I don't know if you had that feeling too but, while I was watching news on tv that day, I felt like it was some special effects of an american movie or something, like Independance Day and this stuff... hehe It was surreal !

yeah, kind of... it first looked like a joke, too.

 

[Kovenant84]

At least you picked a light enough color that it blends in enough with the background, Plin

~kov. (that and my window is about 2'x4')

 

[plintus]

At least you picked a light enough color that it blends in enough with the background, Plin

~kov. (that and my window is about 2'x4')

I picked out my favourite.

 

[Sacred Profane]

I remember it clearly, I had very high fever being sick as hell, suffered severe depressions because I had just discovered I had tinnitus. And I was just zapping around the channels then suddenly saw one of the towers burning on a newschannel...

I have no thoughts on the event though, I think it's sad that a lot of people died, but since we don't mourn the tens (hundreds perhaps?) of thousands being killed because of the war on terror I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time mourning this.

 

[VultureCulture]

i was at work back then, someone wrote a mail that a plane crashed into the wtc and i was like "yeah, right...", but other people began mentioning it only minutes afterwards, and soon the whole crew gathered around a small b/w television. it was freaky. i drove home early that day and sat in front of the tv till after midnight.

as for the "oddity" that the wtc incident is remembered much more than any other recent war, disease or terrorist attack - i think it's clear that this was an assault on what the u.s. and every western democracy represent: egalité, fraternité, liberté and so on. the message is not being carried by the thousands who died, but in the manner how they died - i guess a similar assault on mecca might have similar consequences for the arabic countries. deaths alone don't make people remember things - just think of hurricane katrina, which killed way more people, and had a much larger impact on economics. still, that was something rather inevitable, something you can hold no grudge for for a long time.
or, as stalin is supposed to have said: "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."

 

[Zephyrus]

It was the beginning of 7th grade. We were called down to the auditorium for an assembly. The auditorium was the gym too so on normal assemblies there would be chairs set up. There weren't. The principal informed us of what happened. We went back to class and watched it all on TV.

I asked myself how and why would this happen.

Sometime later I came to the conclusion that the Bush administration let it happen to get an excuse to invade the Middle East to secure oil interests. This was confirmed when we invaded Iraq.

I don't make deep discussions in this specific forum, so I'll leave my words for you to discuss, but I'm not going to be around much to say much more on my behalf.

 

[Makaan]

9/11th means so much more than just the attacks on the twin towers, it has made an enormous impact on the international It was a really tragic event, but that is largelly becouse it meant that tens of thousands of people would die in the wars in the middle east now that the US had their justification to attack Iraq and Afghanistan.
Another sad note is the large amount of civil liberties that has been sacrificed in many countries becouse they are necessary to counted the "terrorist threat". Also this spiral of violence that I only think will escalate and escalate as the war just breeds new terrorists instead of fighting against them.

9/11th seems to be sort of an cursed day by the way. The militarist Coup d'état in chile happened on the same day 33 years ago. Also Swedens foreign minister Anna Lindh died on 9/11th 3 years ago after being stabbed in a mall.