A bit frustrated about my Kranik Rev1 after todays rehearsal :(

[Emdprodukt]

EDIT: I'm too stupid to write my amps brand. Shoot me.

While we had rehearsal today I realized my 100 wattKrank Rev1 + Krank Rev 4x12 seems to have problems to cut through in relation to our second guitarist 50 watt Peavey UltraTube (which was in a combo before we build a head out of it) + Krank Maximus Distortus + Engl 4x12.

I mean I could turn the volume on my amp up or the volume of our second guitar player down (what we did today)... but... yeah. He is using the clean channel with volume at 7 (master around 5 after we turned it down) and I have mine at 6!

I use a lot of mids to get through but still it makes me depressed because I think my amp doesn't seem to cut through and I have to turn the volume way to high in relation to the other amp which is supposed to have half of my amps power. Before you start thinking my tubes are fucked... no they're not.
Or am I doing some kind of logical mistake in the case of loudness between tube amps?

Anyone had similar experiences?

I love the sound of my amp so much and I don't dig the sound of our second guitarist but this makes me depressed. I mean he's using something that tries to sound like a Rev and I got the real thing (which SOUNDS alot better) but still doesn't cut through.

 

[doc_backmask]

How is all the gear pointed? Could there be any sort of cancellation/masking from the vox/drums/bass? We've noticed this a few times in our old rehearsal studio, if the bass was pointed at the wall of gits, the drummer could not hear it, and one git was always too quiet. It took a few tries at finding the correct arrangment of all the cabs.

 

[Emdprodukt]

I don't think so because we realized that by just letting the guitars play. The way our equiptment is staying in the room is supposed to be a very good one!

Looks like that just without the keyboard:

We got that from a german website that actually did a whole workshop about setting everything up in the rehearsal room!

 

[AdamWathan]

50 watts doesn't mean it's half the volume of 100 watts, not even close. A 100 watt head is only a few db louder than a 50 watt head... I think it's just a matter of the characteristics of each amp cutting through the mix or the differences in the signal path... A 50 watt tube amp is louder than a 50 watt solid state amp so different combinations of components in each amp could be contributing to the perceived volume levels...

 

[Emdprodukt]

so wattage doesn't say anything about volume and I can sit back without thinking my 100 watt amp is too quiet??

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I had the same problem competing with a 5150II that had the gain cranked to 11. Did not find a good solution.

 

[AdamWathan]

so wattage doesn't say anything about volume and I can sit back without thinking my 100 watt amp is too quiet??

Well, a 50 watt version of a 5150 would be quieter than a 120 watt version, but only a little. If you are getting by just fine with your volume at around 7-8 max, then I wouldn't worry about it, I'm sure the head is fine... I had a 250 watt Line 6 Flextone II HD that couldn't keep up with the band even when it was MAXED out... That's when you start to worry

 

[Metaltastic]

so wattage doesn't say anything about volume and I can sit back without thinking my 100 watt amp is too quiet??

It does, but not a difference between 50 and 100 watts - I think to have something be twice as loud as a 50 watt amp, it needs to be like 250 watts or something (but I'm just waiting for some math whiz like JBroll to come in and give the specifics). The main difference between 50 and 100 watts is headroom before the power tubes start distorting, which is actually not that desirable, though not horrendous like when a solid-state power amp distorts. Power tube distortion generally induces a bit more sag, but having owned a 5150 combo (60 watts according to Peavey, 50 according to eurotubes), I can guarantee that it is PLENTY loud enough.

And the reason 50 watts tube sounds louder than 50 watts SS is because of the nature of the slight distortion of the power tubes, making 2nd order harmonics rather than 1st order, which are more pleasing and full sounding. Though I might be wrong on the specifics of that...

EDIT: F0RBIDDEN, you beat me to it

 

[Emdprodukt]

thank you guys. I knew there has to be a mistake in my thinking. so everything is not that bad

 

[Morgan138]

It can also be misleading to focus on the knobs' numbers - I've definitely seen amps that top out their volume well before hitting "10." An old bandmate had a Peavey combo that would blow away my Crate half-stack (we were young and dumb, okay?) with both amps set around 3-4, but if we kept turning up his amp wouldn't really get any louder.

So maybe his amp only seems "louder" because it's running full-bore already, while yours still has room to turn up?

 

[theBlackLOBSTERmurder]

I`m having the same problem with my fireball. the thing is, that it doesn`t have these mids that cut through, like a 5150 for instance. you can turn up the mids to 10 and its like having a marshall with mids on 2. I think thats the main reason these amps arent cutting through. my other guitarist plays a jcm 900 /jcm 800, both 50w. and lemme tell ya, you turn these fuckers up and you`ll hear nothing of my engl! I don`t really get it either..., you have to get used to it. the best thing that helps is to crank up the mids at rehearsal. live it isn`t a problem, cus you`re mic`d up. and yeah, 50w isn`t half as loud as 100w. its not a periodic scale (or whatever you call it in english)

 

[AdamWathan]

It can also be misleading to focus on the knobs' numbers - I've definitely seen amps that top out their volume well before hitting "10." An old bandmate had a Peavey combo that would blow away my Crate half-stack (we were young and dumb, okay?) with both amps set around 3-4, but if we kept turning up his amp wouldn't really get any louder.

So maybe his amp only seems "louder" because it's running full-bore already, while yours still has room to turn up?

That's VERY true, good call. The difference from 0 to 1 isn't the same as the difference from 1 to 2, and so on, and it's totally different in every amp as well...

 

[Emdprodukt]

I`m having the same problem with my fireball. the thing is, that it doesn`t have these mids that cut through, like a 5150 for instance. you can turn up the mids to 10 and its like having a marshall with mids on 2. I think thats the main reason these amps arent cutting through. my other guitarist plays a jcm 900 /jcm 800, both 50w. and lemme tell ya, you turn these fuckers up and you`ll hear nothing of my engl! I don`t really get it either..., you have to get used to it. the best thing that helps is to crank up the mids at rehearsal. live it isn`t a problem, cus you`re mic`d up. and yeah, 50w isn`t half as loud as 100w. its not a periodic scale (or whatever you call it in english)

very understandable. thanks for the explanation!

 

[Razorjack]

It does, but not a difference between 50 and 100 watts - I think to have something be twice as loud as a 50 watt amp, it needs to be like 250 watts or something (but I'm just waiting for some math whiz like JBroll to come in and give the specifics).

It works on a base of 10, so half of 100 watts is 10 watts and double the volume of 50 watts is 500 watts.

 

[MetalJonesy]

you tried standing where your other guitarist stands, your gnna get completely different tones standing infront of your amp and next to his

 

[Torniojaws]

That's VERY true, good call. The difference from 0 to 1 isn't the same as the difference from 1 to 2, and so on, and it's totally different in every amp as well...

It's the logarithmic scale, the differences require an exponential increase.

 

[everybody's x]

is your gain too high? are your mids too low?
if your tone is all fizz and no mids as soon as the bass and drums kick in you disappear

 

[GuitarHack]

Emdprodukt

I have the same problem with my Rev and Mesa Cab. I had to put the master volume on 6-7 to compete with the drummer. It's damn loud but doesn't cut through. I turned up the sweep and things were better but with a sound I didn't like. Turn the Mids up to a severe amount maybe 7. Heven't tried my 6505 with the drummer yet though.

My solution was to use my Line6 Spider 212 150W amp to practice . Master volume on just over halfway and could be heard easily. The tube 100W is louder than the solidstate 100W makes me laugh. That damn spider is LOUD!!! (yes I know it's 100W v's 150W but as we know there should be little difference in volume). You get nowhere near as much ballshake when standing in front of the Spider (it's so thin compared to the Rev) but it will make you deafer quicker.

 

[Emdprodukt]

my gain is barely at 6. More likely 5 (I hate guitarplayers who think they can hide their bad playing by turning up the gain). Mids where usualy at 4-5 but I guess I'll turn em up to... 10?

I was turning up the sweep too! But then it starts to sound like a chainsaw (at around 4, I like it at 2.5-3).

 

[AdamWathan]

The best solution is for everyone to sell every amp they own and buy 5150s A 5150 with the mids on 0 is like any other amp with the mids on 8