Fix'd (sorry, couldn't help it, I had to write a paper on the guy last semester). Couperin published a book in the early 1700's on keyboard technique that influenced Bach's technique/playing style a lot, with the use of the thumb being one of the major things he took from it. Bach does deserve credit for popularizing it though, no doubt.
A couple MJR observations for guitarists
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Fix'd (sorry, couldn't help it, I had to write a paper on the guy last semester). Couperin published a book in the early 1700's on keyboard technique that influenced Bach's technique/playing style a lot, with the use of the thumb being one of the major things he took from it. Bach does deserve credit for popularizing it though, no doubt.
I think my only point of disagreement with this is that most SX songs do call for that kind of intense balls-to-the-wall shredding and that expressed exactly what the song needs it to. I think problem is that his vocabulary doesn't consist of a whole lot else, so while i think he's right on target a lot of the time, he doesn't change things up much (if at all) when the song calls for something else.
ABQShredHead
©1970
Mostly agree with you, Drew. The songs would sound ... not as good ... if the solo sections suddenly went to bluesy-type solos and slowed for "feelings". But, I think Romeo continues to innovate his vocabulary quite well, especially with the chromatic noodling that brings mind-baffling results. But, in all, the songs do not offer a feeling-fest backdrop in my opinion. Romeo does throw in plenty of proper notes where needed to evoke an "air guitar wince" though. But I think I'm different than most people - I find emotion in fast roller coaster rides just as much as I do in slow-it-down-and-bend-it-through-the-roof solos. It's more about where the notes take you than it is about bending to the minor third or quarter-step bends between the b3 and nat3 for me.
schenkadere
Obey my dog!
Oh shit! Anything thats not the pentatonic (major or minor) played at 80bpm or slower is emotionless!
Wait, I think the Symphony X forums has already had this debate lol.
Emotion has nothing to do with speed...it's a connection between the listener and musician. I've heard blistering solos that are drenched with feel...I've heard plenty of slow solos with long bends that have done absolutely nothing for me. Back to that opinions and assholes thing.
schenkadere
Obey my dog!
Yeah...seems we've heard it all at this point...nothing new and exciting. I'm sure there will be in the future. I think that's why so often you see players depart away from their given genre to do something entirely different...they get bored themselves...and they enjoy hearing fans moan and complain.
schenkadere
Obey my dog!
1) Play standing up, noobs
2) Use all 4 fingers and penis for tapping (people used to use 3 fingers for keys, until Bach introduced the 5 finger thing)
Fixed again.
CantoX
Member
I agree with you. I was being sarcastic. I hear this "emotionless" debate all the time and usually when I ask someone what they consider to be a solo with emotion they almost always refer to a slower solo based in the pentatonic.
The work on Out of the Ashes is excellent, alot of mechanics but... then Accolade is a whole different thing, hes got so much going on its rediculous. So when you get down to it the guitar work is smokin and the composition and arrangement is stunning. Theres a higher level of creative imagination going on here than what is common. I dont know how they put this stuff together, the total vision is mind boggling.
schenkadere
Obey my dog!
I agree with you. I was being sarcastic. I hear this "emotionless" debate all the time and usually when I ask someone what they consider to be a solo with emotion they almost always refer to a slower solo based in the pentatonic.
Yes, that's a common response...and very naive and jaded.
Glad you were being sarcastic!
HackerX
Member
Hmmm, one of my favourite emotional solo's is Petrucci's in The Spirit Carries On. The main bar of which is about a metre long.
Emotion clearly isn't carried in the individual notes but in the way they flow together. I don't hear a fast solo as lots of individual notes, but rather groups of notes that form cohesive "flows" which in turn express the emotion in a singular musical theme. Fast or slow doesn't matter, the skill is in expressing the emotion.
Emotion clearly isn't carried in the individual notes but in the way they flow together. I don't hear a fast solo as lots of individual notes, but rather groups of notes that form cohesive "flows" which in turn express the emotion in a singular musical theme. Fast or slow doesn't matter, the skill is in expressing the emotion.
HackerX
Member
Unless you're a tard like me that wouldn't know where to begin half the time. In which case clips make a good "ballpark". I agree though that you need to follow up by actually trying it with your own equipment, and walk away if you're not happy then and there.
Meedley - in regards to people doing what works for them, I see it like this:
There are always fluke occurrences here and there where someone is able to perform perfectly well using a technique that is atypical from the norm. EVH holds the pick with his middle finger and thumb, Marty plays with his thumb nail, etc. But if you are a developing guitarist, that doesn't mean you should emulate those fluke situations because 99/100 times it won't work for a person, whereas the well documented 'proper' way of doing things works out at the highest percentage of the time. If you wanted to make a bunch of money, for example, you could go to college and get good grades and take internships and get a business degree and so on - following the documented path for best results, or you could just try really hard to win the lottery. It will happen in some scenarios that the conventional path won't work out for someone, or some slob will hit the lottery and feel wholly justified in that plan - but that is very rare - you're better off playing the percentages. To advise a developing guitarist to 'do what feels right to him' is the same as saying 'hope ya hit the lottery', to insist a developing guitarist follow conventional wisdom is saying 'here is your best percentage shot at becoming a proficient guitarist - no guarantees, but still the best choice you can make'. Every time I've followed the 'I'm going to do this how it feels right to me' strategy, I've wound up at 'uhoh, hit a brick wall and now have to unteach myself this and start over doing it properly'. Everything from bad wrist posture to thumb over the fret board, to holding the pick too deep along my index finger, to refusing to alternate pick (remember that back in the day? People would always start yacking about James Hetfield as justification for never alternate picking) - all of that turned out to be a waste of time. I'm sure every once in a while a person will fluke into doing something in a way that defies conventional wisdom and pretty much only works for him, but does end up working. But it is not worth the 99/100 other times you abandon conventional technique and wind up realizing in the end that it's simply not going to work the way you opted to go. The existence of anomalies does not justify hoping to be one yourself - we all have to make decisions based on our understanding of probability to give ourselves the best chance of things going the way we want them to go.
In terms of the tapping, hey if middle works for you that's fine. I brought it up because I moved away from middle specifically because I found limitations on it personally, and then the index finger solved those limitations. Of course there is no way to really know for sure which one of us is the anomaly and which one is on the path of best probability (since there are a decent # of proponents of each on either side). Or it may be the case in this instance, that the probabilities of success with the middle finger vs success with the index finger are extremely close and it doesn't really matter between them. I wanted to mention it because I think most people tap with their middle finger in part because they never thought to tap with the index finger and never thought of working on that pick tuck to make it available - it never crossed my mind until I saw the MJR video. It's worth giving a genuine try to if you have not tried it previously, because it MAY wind up being helpful to developing guitarists.
There are always fluke occurrences here and there where someone is able to perform perfectly well using a technique that is atypical from the norm. EVH holds the pick with his middle finger and thumb, Marty plays with his thumb nail, etc. But if you are a developing guitarist, that doesn't mean you should emulate those fluke situations because 99/100 times it won't work for a person, whereas the well documented 'proper' way of doing things works out at the highest percentage of the time. If you wanted to make a bunch of money, for example, you could go to college and get good grades and take internships and get a business degree and so on - following the documented path for best results, or you could just try really hard to win the lottery. It will happen in some scenarios that the conventional path won't work out for someone, or some slob will hit the lottery and feel wholly justified in that plan - but that is very rare - you're better off playing the percentages. To advise a developing guitarist to 'do what feels right to him' is the same as saying 'hope ya hit the lottery', to insist a developing guitarist follow conventional wisdom is saying 'here is your best percentage shot at becoming a proficient guitarist - no guarantees, but still the best choice you can make'. Every time I've followed the 'I'm going to do this how it feels right to me' strategy, I've wound up at 'uhoh, hit a brick wall and now have to unteach myself this and start over doing it properly'. Everything from bad wrist posture to thumb over the fret board, to holding the pick too deep along my index finger, to refusing to alternate pick (remember that back in the day? People would always start yacking about James Hetfield as justification for never alternate picking) - all of that turned out to be a waste of time. I'm sure every once in a while a person will fluke into doing something in a way that defies conventional wisdom and pretty much only works for him, but does end up working. But it is not worth the 99/100 other times you abandon conventional technique and wind up realizing in the end that it's simply not going to work the way you opted to go. The existence of anomalies does not justify hoping to be one yourself - we all have to make decisions based on our understanding of probability to give ourselves the best chance of things going the way we want them to go.
In terms of the tapping, hey if middle works for you that's fine. I brought it up because I moved away from middle specifically because I found limitations on it personally, and then the index finger solved those limitations. Of course there is no way to really know for sure which one of us is the anomaly and which one is on the path of best probability (since there are a decent # of proponents of each on either side). Or it may be the case in this instance, that the probabilities of success with the middle finger vs success with the index finger are extremely close and it doesn't really matter between them. I wanted to mention it because I think most people tap with their middle finger in part because they never thought to tap with the index finger and never thought of working on that pick tuck to make it available - it never crossed my mind until I saw the MJR video. It's worth giving a genuine try to if you have not tried it previously, because it MAY wind up being helpful to developing guitarists.
Eternal Dragon
1337AD
There are actually times where the middle finger is the only option. Sweep arpeggios with a tapped note on top for example.
Usually the hammer-on before the tap on the high string is enough time to make the switch.
guitarguru777
Member
The position MJR sits in is called Classical Position, and its the CORRECT position for playing your guitar. When you put your guitar on your outer leg you strin your back muscles, which in turn pull the shoulder muscles, which then pull the bicepts and tricepts, which ull on your forearm muscles, which pull on your muscles in your hand which makes the muscles stiffer and more difficult to move.
you will find that if you use Classical position you can play longer, stronger and better.
As for th tapping thats pesonal prefernce.
In that sense, classical position is also bad for your back. You end up either hunched over or with your left leg elevated, both of which can/will cause back problems. The better solution is to just keep it strapped on (assuming you wear your guitar high enough for it to be in a good position when you are sitting with both feet on the ground) or, if you are playing a classical guitar, using one of those suction-cup mounted leg stands that is affixed to the bottom of the guitar and props your guitar up into position with both feet n the ground so you're not having to hunch over or prop your leg.
guitarguru777
Member
100% incorrect. Classical position puts 0 strain on your back. Ask any Chiropractor. If your guitar is in the proper position you are not hunched AT ALL.
You missed the "either/or" part of the post...your left leg will be propped up, which isn't good for your back.
ABQShredHead
©1970
guitarguru777
Member
Still incorrect, as stated talk to your doctor or chiropractor. Lifting your legs in seated position uses your glutes, not your back muscles.
If you read this article, it talks about how lifting your legs off the ground REMOVES back strain.
http://healthguide.howstuffworks.com/back-pain-low-dictionary.htm
Try again .....
