A question for the record industry folks...

[dcowboys311]

The fact that you spin CDs "Not from the big labels, but from smaller ones" is fine and dandy. It's also a sign of "smaller" labels not being as integrated into digital promo distribution as larger ones.

Agreed. I'd say it's due to smaller labels not having the funds to buy into a distribution service like iPool or DigiPromo.

How many "large, coprorate radio facilities" spin the type of music we're talking about in this thread and on this board? When's the last time you heard a ClearChannel station play Angra? Of course the way a "big" station plays music is different from a "small" station. But I suppose that all comes down to your definition of "big" and "small" in radio terms, heh.

 

[nailz]

I agree with Zod. In this day and age, there is no reason why you cannot simply put the album online in streaming format and issue a password to listen to it that expires after a set number of listens. You can track who listens, etc that way. There is plenty of lead time for online reviews AND print reviews that way..

The problem with this (if you're trying to keep the illegal distribution controlled), along with promo's, is that once it's there, it can easily be pirated. Streaming over the web doesn't negate the ability to 'rip' it, it just makes it a different procedure. It's not as easy as popping in a cd and clicking "burn", but it's not a difficult task if you know how to get at the original file.

However, if you just want to cut down on mass-producing old technology and outdated music methods, it's definitely a better idea.

 

[AngraRULES]

The problem with this (if you're trying to keep the illegal distribution controlled), along with promo's, is that once it's there, it can easily be pirated. Streaming over the web doesn't negate the ability to 'rip' it, it just makes it a different procedure. It's not as easy as popping in a cd and clicking "burn", but it's not a difficult task if you know how to get at the original file.

However, if you just want to cut down on mass-producing old technology and outdated music methods, it's definitely a better idea.

I agree with you there, but wouldn't a rip off a streaming promo be of much less quality than a downloadable mp3 promo?

 

[Dr.Froth]

I have also wondered why the release dates stagger like this myself. I am also not a fan of illegal downloading...I do however...when given a choice on purchasing an album...prefer to buy the mp3's rather than the CD. I do this alot when I buy music from Nightmare.

I love buying new music and I do it all the time. I will browse CD baby (and quite often now the nightmare artist list) and look for bands that seem interesting and give em' a shot. I blind buy about $100 bucks every couple of months or so. I find myself being impatiant now that I am spoiled by instant digital downloads. I ordered a Moonlight Agony CD and had to wait a couple of weeks for it to arrive and it drove me bonkers. Now, I don't bother buying music if the band does not offer it in downloadable form. Heck, when I bought Edgend it took a couple of days to get the link to the download area...I remember telling Don Lafon to tell Lance to speed that up..haha). Anyway, now I just write down the bands I like on the site, and go over to CD Baby and download them instantly.

Plus...with over 120GB of music in my collection, I listen to it mostly over the PC or my Zune. If I buy a CD, I have to rip it myself (never gonna get those five minutes back...lol)...and risk scratching it, dropping it, having it stolen..etc.

Anyway, my stupid rant aside. The point (yes there is one) is that for me the staggered release dates do not matter. I buy music from a site in Russia quite often in downloadable form and have no problem purchasing a new record once it is releasd in Europe and before it is available in the states in many cases. I suspect that I will be able to buy the new Kamelot on 9-1. I don't have a problem with this because I am buying it so the artist gets the cash...who cares if I buy it overseas or not.

I would, HOWEVER, LOVE to see more packaging in the Digital Downloads. Why not have a folder of pics or other content that we can have as well. Why not include an interview or small backstage vid or something. It costs no more (unlike a CD layout which gets more expensive by the page) to include these things. You could include the song lyrics...heck it could even be a badass ofline web page looking application that you could click on to see the content. The art and lyrics and cool stuff are the only things I miss about buying physical copies. (HEY LANCE...maybe you could start the shift to change things in this manner...that would be moist.)

Anyway...downloaded or CD or 8track...always pay for your music boys and girls...we gots kiddos to feed.

 

[Dr.Froth]

The problem with this (if you're trying to keep the illegal distribution controlled), along with promo's, is that once it's there, it can easily be pirated. Streaming over the web doesn't negate the ability to 'rip' it, it just makes it a different procedure. It's not as easy as popping in a cd and clicking "burn", but it's not a difficult task if you know how to get at the original file.

However, if you just want to cut down on mass-producing old technology and outdated music methods, it's definitely a better idea.

He is right. NCH software makes a program called SoundTap that can capture any audio playing through your computer and convert it to either an MP3 or a Wave. I use this to capture movie samples for Industrial type mixes...but it could be misuesed by some bastard with no morals and a Rhapsody account.

 

[Corsair]

As it applies to me:

I have no idea. However, I suspect a fair number of people use downloading to preview what they want to purchase.

And I was about to respond positively to this, but then you posted:

I suspect there are four possible incentives:

1. Collector
2. Want a high quality rip (320 Kbps or FLAC)
3. Morality /Legality
4. To support the artist/scene

and then you pretty much stole the words. Then Glenn posted:

I agree with Zod. In this day and age, there is no reason why you cannot simply put the album online in streaming format and issue a password to listen to it that expires after a set number of listens. You can track who listens, etc that way. There is plenty of lead time for online reviews AND print reviews that way.

If more distributors /labels did this, I'd probably never download an album for a first listen. There aren't many bands out there that I'd do blind Buys for (I'd probably buy anything Devin Townsend recorded without listening to it first, but I also have a man-crush on him, so yeah.) and unless I can listen to an album, or at least a significant chunk of it first I generally won't bother buying it. I spend a lot of money that I probably shouldn't on music, but I can't really afford to waste money on shitty albums. Even if the cost of a physical album were 5 bucks, that would likely still be as true as if it inflated to 20 for a standard release. I know it's probably not ethical to most, but I try not to be a parasite about it. Any time I'm tempted to hold on to a downlaod without later buying it, I honestly feel like a total dick, so i'm pretty easy to guilt into doing the right thing

I've probably bought twice as many albums-per-month since I started doing it that way.

 

[lasercd]

Sadly Dr. Froth said:

<< I buy music from a site in Russia quite often in downloadable form and have no problem purchasing a new record once it is releasd in Europe and before it is available in the states in many cases. I suspect that I will be able to buy the new Kamelot on 9-1. I don't have a problem with this because I am buying it so the artist gets the cash...who cares if I buy it overseas or not.>>

All Russian sites are pirates. Zero money makes it to either the artists or their labels. That's why you should care. Authorized downloads are set up by the labels by region. If you are able to buy from an overseas site there is a good chance its not a site offering legal downloads.

Your conscience may vary...

 

[General Zod]

All Russian sites are pirates. Zero money makes it to either the artists or their labels. That's why you should care. Authorized downloads are set up by the labels by region. If you are able to buy from an overseas site there is a good chance its not a site offering legal downloads.

Your conscience may vary...

Another interesting point. Is there a significant portion of sales lost, from consumers intending to make legal purchases but duped into using sites like these?

By the way, the idea of handing over your credit card numbers to these sites should frighten the crap out of everyone.

 

[lasercd]

<<Another interesting point. Is there a significant portion of sales lost, from consumers intending to make legal purchases but duped into using sites like these?>>

Think about how many of these sites are out there. I suspect on a world wide basis a lot of money goes into the pockets of pirates.

 

[AngraRULES]

The point (yes there is one) is that for me the staggered release dates do not matter. I buy music from a site in Russia quite often in downloadable form and have no problem purchasing a new record once it is releasd in Europe and before it is available in the states in many cases. I suspect that I will be able to buy the new Kamelot on 9-1. I don't have a problem with this because I am buying it so the artist gets the cash...who cares if I buy it overseas or not.

Are you that naive that you think artists get $$ from a Russian mp3 site? I mean, seriously?

 

[Jasonic]

Aren't there a handful of legit Russian labels, like IROND for example, who do have exclusive rites to bigger metal label distribution in those regions? I have noticed that such pressings are available many months before they are in the US.

 

[Dr.Froth]

Are you that naive that you think artists get $$ from a Russian mp3 site? I mean, seriously?

I guess that I am. I assumed that if you were purchasing something and not using a torrent site that things were legit. I have used this site for several years now...oops. I will look into it though.

As for credit card numbers...I only use prepaid cards to buy anything off of the internet.

If what you say is true...than I will no longer use that site as I am very much aginst people stealing music. Crap...now I feel bad. Well, thanks for the heads up folks. I'll help spread the word.

Hey LANCE, there are some Nightmare bands on that site as well (though not many) including ours. Might want to check that out.

 

[AngraRULES]

I guess that I am. I assumed that if you were purchasing something and not using a torrent site that things were legit. I have used this site for several years now...oops. I will look into it though.

As for credit card numbers...I only use prepaid cards to buy anything off of the internet.

If what you say is true...than I will no longer use that site as I am very much aginst people stealing music. Crap...now I feel bad. Well, thanks for the heads up folks. I'll help spread the word.

Hey LANCE, there are some Nightmare bands on that site as well (though not many) including ours. Might want to check that out.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't want to make you feel like I offended you.. I thought most people were aware that Russia is a bucket of piracy. Most media websites (mp3, movies, etc) are all pirate, and they take advantage by selling the music for a lower price than let's say iTunes. The artists and labels see no dime from it. Believe it or not, Russian websites tend to be the first to make leaked albums available. I was honestly surprised you weren't aware of that. I think if you want to continue downloading legally, there's no better choice than iTunes, Amazon or smaller stores (Nightmare Records comes to mind).

 

[nailz]

I agree with you there, but wouldn't a rip off a streaming promo be of much less quality than a downloadable mp3 promo?

No. Maybe in days of dialup where streams were compressed to between 32kbps and 48kbps to match the bandwith of modems, but in today's world, streams are typically very HQ, even with video, so the source file is going to be at least 128kbps, and often is VBR w/ 320k max.

 

[nailz]

Why not have a folder of pics or other content that we can have as well. Why not include an interview or small backstage vid or something. It costs no more (unlike a CD layout which gets more expensive by the page) to include these things.

Production of anything is never free. As a photographer, it's almost insulting that you believe these services are provided at no cost. However, I understand that people don't think about it.

 

[Pelata]

Agreed. I'd say it's due to smaller labels not having the funds to buy into a distribution service like iPool or DigiPromo.

How many "large, coprorate radio facilities" spin the type of music we're talking about in this thread and on this board? When's the last time you heard a ClearChannel station play Angra? Of course the way a "big" station plays music is different from a "small" station. But I suppose that all comes down to your definition of "big" and "small" in radio terms, heh.

I fully agree with you...I know corporate radio does not play bands like Angra. When I think of radio, that's what comes to my mind...Clear Channel owned entities...not college stations or something smaller than CC type stations...I was speaking form that perspective....my bad.

I think you and I were headed in the same direction, we just took different routes to get there.

 

[Dr.Froth]

Don't get me wrong, I didn't want to make you feel like I offended you.. I thought most people were aware that Russia is a bucket of piracy. Most media websites (mp3, movies, etc) are all pirate, and they take advantage by selling the music for a lower price than let's say iTunes. The artists and labels see no dime from it. Believe it or not, Russian websites tend to be the first to make leaked albums available. I was honestly surprised you weren't aware of that. I think if you want to continue downloading legally, there's no better choice than iTunes, Amazon or smaller stores (Nightmare Records comes to mind).

I'm not offended. I just feel like I was duped...oh well. Doubely so because I have always prided myself on paying for my music, paying the cover even when I can get in free, buying shirts and whatever else I could do to help the sene. I will continue to buy from Nightmare and CD Baby and the like (which I have been doing as well) but will no longer do business with the site in question. I do not care for Ipod or Itunes.

I was not aware of the piracy issue on pay sites but I live like a hermit (have not had television for over a decade) and the news I get is usually world news, not entertainment news. Hell, this is the first forumn that I have joined that did not have to do with programming software.

Anyway...live and learn right.

 

[lasercd]

<<Aren't there a handful of legit Russian labels, like IROND for example, who do have exclusive rites to bigger metal label distribution in those regions? I have noticed that such pressings are available many months before they are in the US.>>

Yes and they negotiate extortion type deals. You see virtually no money from them and the albums never recoup. Then these (supposedly non-exportable) editions wind up on various non-Russian websites and fans think they have gotten some great deal when in fact they have just screwed over the band.

 

[Pelata]

<<Aren't there a handful of legit Russian labels, like IROND for example, who do have exclusive rites to bigger metal label distribution in those regions? I have noticed that such pressings are available many months before they are in the US.>>

Yes and they negotiate extortion type deals. You see virtually no money from them and the albums never recoup. Then these (supposedly non-exportable) editions wind up on various non-Russian websites and fans think they have gotten some great deal when in fact they have just screwed over the band.

I would not say the fans were "screwing over the band"...the fans just want the music...it's those Russian labels in particular who are screwing over everybody.

 

[Cheiron]

<<Aren't there a handful of legit Russian labels, like IROND for example, who do have exclusive rites to bigger metal label distribution in those regions? I have noticed that such pressings are available many months before they are in the US.>>

Yes and they negotiate extortion type deals. You see virtually no money from them and the albums never recoup. Then these (supposedly non-exportable) editions wind up on various non-Russian websites and fans think they have gotten some great deal when in fact they have just screwed over the band.

Is there a solution?