A recent facination with hard drugs

I was semi-joking, yeah.
But my post was mainly in reply to this:

However, let's put it this way - let's say there's a dude out there who normally wouldn't do PCP, but it becomes legalized and much more easy to access, so the person says "what the hell".

So yeah, I *did* read your post, I just chose to reply to a very specific part of it!
 
On the Hitler thing, yeah, meth was first synthesized in 1894 and I've read from a few sources that his physician did in fact administer both methamphetamines and Amphetamines to Hitler.
So there you go folks, don't do speed and ice because it turns you into a war mongering, racist fucker.
 
Dodobaby, I took LSD without having done my research beforehand.
But I can tell ya now, the day after I fucking spent hours reading up on that shit so the next time I take LSD, it hopefully wont so scary lol
 
On the Hitler thing, yeah, meth was first synthesized in 1894 and I've read from a few sources that his physician did in fact administer both methamphetamines and Amphetamines to Hitler.
So there you go folks, don't do speed and ice because it turns you into a war mongering, racist fucker.

No one is saying anything like that; however, if there were many people that all turned into war mongering racist fuckers after taking amphetamines, then it might be worth investigating, don't you think? ;)
 
speed is dirty stuff

edit: and marcus why the fuck are you idling on msn, get on motherfucker
 
Öwen;8444966 said:
At School they told me various crap about drinking in moderation, how abstinence was the best way to avoid STD's and various crap about how weed and various other drugs were bad for me.

It all ultimately inspired me to want to go out and do all the things they told me not to, its human nature


Human nature, aye, but blaming the desire to get laid on reactance instead of, say, being a normal teenage male? Pull the other one... :lol:



It's rather interesting how tobacco and alcohol are in the top 10 of dangerous drugs (as found by the British Medical Association recently) yet are widely sociably acceptable:

_41949092_drugs_graph_416.gif

Do you have a link to the study that graphic was taken from? I'm curious to know what exactly "harm rating" represents, and if the ranks are at all affected by the number of users being considered. For example, does alcohol rank higher than ketamine because alcohol has more negative effect on its users, or just because there are more more alcohol-related negative effects in the general population than ketamine-related negative effects, wot with alcohol use being more common?
 
Do you have a link to the study that graphic was taken from? I'm curious to know what exactly "harm rating" represents, and if the ranks are at all affected by the number of users being considered. For example, does alcohol rank higher than ketamine because alcohol has more negative effect on its users, or just because there are more more alcohol-related negative effects in the general population than ketamine-related negative effects, wot with alcohol use being more common?

Here you go: Click to see how deep the rabbit hole goes
 
Having tried almost everything under the sun myself (and still never turned into a junkie on the street - yay!) there are 6 that I know wouldn't be worth the risk of experimentation. Heroin, Crack, Meth, GHB, Solvents and any prescription drug that is used recreationally.

What's wrong with the occasional Ambien or Valium? And what exactly is GHB/are solvents?
 
Gamma ******y butyrate or Gamma ******ybutyric acid, Sodium Oxybate

Made From: gamma butyrolactone (GBL) and Sodium ******ide or Potassium ******ide - basically it is degreasing solvent or floor stripper mixed with drain cleaner. When GBL or BD or products containing them are ingested, GHB is produced in the body, that is why we refer extensively to GBL and BD products on these pages.

Solvents= read above.

I have no idea why those words are filtered.

Description: A clear liquid. Looks just like water. Can be mistaken for water because it is usually found in a small (30ml) clear plastic bottle, a water bottle, or even Gatorade bottles, which contains several doses. One quick taste, and you'll know it's not water. Not as common, but also found as a white powder. Infact powder use is on the rise!

Effects: Intoxication, increased energy, happiness, talking, desire to socialize, feeling affectionate and playful, mild disinhibition, sensuality, enhanced sexual experience, muscle relaxation, loss of coordination due to loss of muscle tone, possible nausea, difficulty concentrating, loss of gag reflex.

Many people have bad reactions. These can include nausea, headaches, drowsiness, dizziness, amnesia, vomiting, loss of muscle control, respiratory problems, loss of consciousness, being conscious but unable to move, and death- Especially when combined with alcohol or other drugs.
 
First of all, fuck all the automatic forum censoring, and second, floor stripper + drano = DO NOT WANT, holy fuck :ill:
 
I am all for the legalization of all natural occouring drugs, being tobacco, marijuana and opium. To that degree our brains have each one of those receptors just for those drugs. Its safe to say that we do not have alcohol receptors and the effect of alcohol is merely the byproduct of a chemical that is created when alcohol meets our liver, this is what tells the brain to slow down so that your liver can get rid of this "toxin". Our brians do not see natural tobacco, marijuana or opium as that, and those three have been a part of sociable worldwide culture as far back as ancient summeria for recreational, meditative and medicinal (as an anesthesia in the case of opium) until the beginnings of the prohibitions around the 1800's. The way I see it is that our bodies were not meant to take in artficial products and the effects that we get from consuming something that is artifical, from food at McDonald's to PCP is our bodies way of saying, WTF did you just put in me? the effects are becuase your body either knows that what you just ingested is a toxin or the effects your getting are directly from your brain or liver being fried from alcohol or PCP.

On the established findings that most non-arfiticial drugs do less harm to you than artificial seems pretty logical but that does not mean that they can pose a deadly threat to your health. Still with all the artifical drug being worse to your health and more addictive than tobacco, most natural drugs would be perfectly safe if legalized as the human civilization lived with them for a few thousand years and never imploded on itself. It may be misinfomred for me to say but, during pre modern world, when these drugs were "legal" the sciences and cultural discoveries soared even greater than what we have today, considering the egyptian's understanding of the stars and being able to line up their pyramids with the stars by a fraction of a degree, the mathmatical advancments of the roman era. Society seemed a lot more booming when these substances were plentyful and legal.

I personally find it quite hypocritical to think weed should be illegal but alcohol is fine. Both alter your personality and your perception, if one is legal either they both be illegal or both be legal. I don't think the government should regulate what we consume, mostly in part that I beleive that we are overpopulated and we should allow social darwinism to do its finest. I see hard drugs as a good source of population control, if you are stupid enough to do it and kill yourself (either by suicide or by health deterioration) than so be it, as long as your not out harming other people bcuase of said abuse, i think its all pretty fair game.

And as Metaltastic said, about not trusting most Americans to make the good decisions, I totaly agree, If someone can't have self control as to how much they eat and as a result are morbidly obese, what makes you think that they could be responisble to keep a strong willpower to a substance that is physically addictive.

Anyway I will recite what has been said here about hard drugs

Fuck that shit!
 
the internet is an amazing place - you could be an absolute book worm with no friends in reality but on the internet you can pose as being a successful accomplished owner of a large firm with the body of a god.

dont believe everything you see & here on the internet... especially what people tell you

i grew up in dublin and its surrounding area and i can tell you straight out we have some pretty horrific crack addicts and heroine junkies. not saying that were the worst or anything like that but since the 80's in ireland it became a new "fad" to take drugs other then weed and if you see the poverty and addicts in some places in dublin you wouldn't believe your eyes. i honestly believe its worse then the united states & the uk. the moment you touch hard drugs put simply your brain to put simply will turn to mush.

taken from an article on the internet i just found

--------------
Effects of heroin appear after repeated use for some period of time.Chronic users may develop collapsed veins, infection of the heart lining and valves, abscesses, cellulites, and liver disease. Pulmonary complications, including various types of pneumonia, may result from the poor health condition of the abuser, as well as from heroin's depressing effects on respiration.In addition to the effects of the drug itself, street heroin may have additives that do not really dissolve and result in clogging the blood vessels that lead to the lungs, liver, kidneys, or brain. This can cause infection or even death of small patches of cells in vital organs. With regular heroin use, tolerance develops. This means the abuser must use more heroin to achieve the same intensity or effect.

As higher doses are used over time, physical dependence and addiction develop. With physical dependence, the body has adapted to the presence of the drug and withdrawal symptoms may occur if use is reduced or stopped. Withdrawal, which in regular abusers may occur as early as a few hours after the last administration, produces drug craving, restlessness, muscle and bone pain, insomnia, diarrhea and vomiting, cold flashes with goose bumps ("cold turkey"), kicking movements ("kicking the habit"), and other symptoms. Major withdrawal symptoms peak between 48 and 72 hours after the last does and subside after about a week. Sudden withdrawal by heavily dependent users who are in poor health can be fatal.

------------

any human person that goes through the above will (its inevitable) suffer from psychological consequences and there body will start to break down. (and note the above is only the physical effects - if you want to know the mental effects i suggest you go visit a local institution and see 1st hand. believe me i've seen it within my own family & friends and its not something you'll ever forget - use your imagination and think about an absolutely crazy mental home and think about what people could be doing. no word of a lie, what your thinking happens in there) anyway back to drug talk - you will NOT be capable of making rational decisions let alone going onto an internet forum and posting about your latest shoot up. hard drugs in there essence extremely addictive meaning anything other then weed (and some cases coke) chances of you getting addicted are going to be easily 95%

people say smoking weed etc is bad... well in one case there right. studies have shown that in some cases it leads to users moving on to harder substances to get there "high" and its a well known fact that anyone who takes harder drugs then weed is going to get fucked up

1: there image & 2: mentally ... they certainly wont be posting on internet forums

when i say hard drugs im talking about most of the common ones excluding weed (and in some cases excluding coke even though coke is the 2nd most addictive drug)
 
I am all for the legalization of all natural occouring drugs, being tobacco, marijuana and opium. To that degree our brains have each one of those receptors just for those drugs. Its safe to say that we do not have alcohol receptors and the effect of alcohol is merely the byproduct of a chemical that is created when alcohol meets our liver, this is what tells the brain to slow down so that your liver can get rid of this "toxin". Our brians do not see natural tobacco, marijuana or opium as that, and those three have been a part of sociable worldwide culture as far back as ancient summeria for recreational, meditative and medicinal (as an anesthesia in the case of opium) until the beginnings of the prohibitions around the 1800's. The way I see it is that our bodies were not meant to take in artficial products and the effects that we get from consuming something that is artifical, from food at McDonald's to PCP is our bodies way of saying, WTF did you just put in me? the effects are becuase your body either knows that what you just ingested is a toxin or the effects your getting are directly from your brain or liver being fried from alcohol or PCP.

You're still imposing an entirely and - shock of all shocks, *artificial* - distinction between artificial nad natural. I do have to wonder exactly where your sources are to be found, as many modern 'artificial' drugs are simply naturally-occurring compounds that are extracted through more-efficient processes that don't have to involve witch covens and raindances. Further, you seem to be missing a few other things in your assessment (conveniently leaving out that nicotine has comparable toxicity to cocaine), conveniently misstating 'our brains have receptors that handle these compounds well' with 'yo these receptors are, like, JUST FOR OPIUM, man...', forgetting that nicotine is a bloody *pesticide*, that alcohol isn't really 'unnatural' by most stretches and predates humanity, and... oh, balls, I simply haven't the time.

On the established findings that most non-arfiticial drugs do less harm to you than artificial seems pretty logical but that does not mean that they can pose a deadly threat to your health. Still with all the artifical drug being worse to your health and more addictive than tobacco, most natural drugs would be perfectly safe if legalized as the human civilization lived with them for a few thousand years and never imploded on itself.

Keep in mind that plenty of natural things are completely toxic - and that many 'artificial' drugs (in case you pin aspirin as 'artificial', as your description and its modern processing would lead me to believe) are simply derived from naturally-occurring plants. I'm still waiting on a citation and see no reason why it would seem 'pretty logical' that an ENTIRELY ARBITRARY AND ARTIFICIAL line you've drawn in the sand can so efficiently divide chemicals into such neat categories.

It may be misinfomred for me to say but, during pre modern world, when these drugs were "legal" the sciences and cultural discoveries soared even greater than what we have today, considering the egyptian's understanding of the stars and being able to line up their pyramids with the stars by a fraction of a degree, the mathmatical advancments of the roman era. Society seemed a lot more booming when these substances were plentyful and legal.

It absolutely is misinformed to a degree that honestly implies total lack of knowledge of the development of mathematics and sciences in the last two centuries. The height of Greek mathematics (Roman mathematics weren't too hot, honestly - Roman numerals make even basic arithmetic about as fun as passing kidney stones, and their hottest tools were in use millenia before) is child's play today.

I personally find it quite hypocritical to think weed should be illegal but alcohol is fine. Both alter your personality and your perception, if one is legal either they both be illegal or both be legal. I don't think the government should regulate what we consume, mostly in part that I beleive that we are overpopulated and we should allow social darwinism to do its finest. I see hard drugs as a good source of population control, if you are stupid enough to do it and kill yourself (either by suicide or by health deterioration) than so be it, as long as your not out harming other people bcuase of said abuse, i think its all pretty fair game.

I agree completely here (except with overpopulation), but opt instead to have both legal.

And as Metaltastic said, about not trusting most Americans to make the good decisions, I totaly agree, If someone can't have self control as to how much they eat and as a result are morbidly obese, what makes you think that they could be responisble to keep a strong willpower to a substance that is physically addictive.

Anyway I will recite what has been said here about hard drugs

Fuck that shit!

If they don't have self-control, they need to be smacked around until they do. My liberties are not an appropriate penance for their sins.

Jeff
 
I have to post this little chart here

http://z.hubpages.com/u/1331523_f520.jpg

As you can see, the majority of artificial or manmade substances are beyond the physical harm of alcohol. There was a similar chart posted that had more in this thread. based on that chart and the other one posted, its easy to say that even prescription drugs that during theraputic doeses would cause no harm if aboused will kill you faster than the "MAJORITY" of natural substances. Of course Heroin is only artificial becuase it was distracted by a more effecient means, but on the black market, do you know if you will get pure articiial opiates? No. Can you still have the same health deterioration with medical grade morphine as street heroin? Yes. Looking at an individual scale of each drug, when you ask the question "If abused, whihc drug will kill me faster?" the artificial drugs are most of the time right at the top and the natural drugs are on the bottom, that was where my whole reference came from. It would be safe to say that Heroin is more harmful to the human body than cannibis, same as it would be more harmful to your health to eat at McDonald's vs going to Subway, while that may not ALWAYS be true, for the most part the trend seems to be that the more artifical the substance is, the more harmful it is. And again I said that is not always true, considering Ecstacy being one of the least harmful drug for you. And again I never said that natural substances could be very devistating to your body as well, becuase last time I checked natural opium can be fatal if ingested the correct dosage.

My statement about having recpetors for certain drugs did not imply that we need them or that our brains handle it well, now you are just putting words in my mouth. To say from a evolution point of view, our bodies and brains have evoled to undertake in the chemical reactions of the substances and if there were not a purpose for any of them, we would have evolved with those features. To place it based off what I have hear many times, our brains know when we are in pain, and sometimes more pain than we need to be in or there is a nervous system problem such as Fibromyalgia where we need a chemical function to shut it off, well marijuana and opium do those things, same as how nicotine is a natural depressant that works like anti-anxiety medication. Before we had the modern day of medicine we had to relieve these flaws from our bodies and brains, in which we evolved to take in certain chemicals that take care of these processes and regulate the chemical reactions in our brains that we are not capable of doing. Its almost wierd to say but its as if our DNA is aware of our flaws and has evolved to deal with it <--actual concept that I go from Richard Dawkins, I can try to pull up the video from that lecture/debate.

It absolutely is misinformed to a degree that honestly implies total lack of knowledge of the development of mathematics and sciences in the last two centuries. The height of Greek mathematics (Roman mathematics weren't too hot, honestly - Roman numerals make even basic arithmetic about as fun as passing kidney stones, and their hottest tools were in use millenia before) is child's play today.

like I really care, I don't spend my hours reading up on every mathmetician and scientists and all of their discoveries for fun, I actaully have a life and socialze with normal human beings. My whole point was, the pre modern world was extremely advanced for its time considering the lack of technology and the fact that said drugs were legal and plentiful.

EDIT: And don't come in with the, YOUR WRONG threat like you have been doing to everyone else, its just rude and arrogant since your the only one trying to put people down in a friendly debate, so get off the high horse and have a polite debate. I really thought being as intellectually capable as I am was a burden due to the inept people that populate this world, being as smart as you put yourslef out to be must be really irritating, lonley and extremely anti-social.